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Pacific Disrespect for Turban Infuriates Sikh Man

Discussion in 'Breaking News' started by spnadmin, Feb 16, 2013.

  1. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Disrespect for turban infuriates Sikh man

    http://www.indianweekender.co.nz/Pa...and/Disrespect-for-turban-infuriates-Sikh-man

    A Sikh man living in Queenstown is disappointed serious charges were not laid against a drunken man who snatched his turban from his head.

    Jasmail Singh, 26, said last week’s incident was the first time his hair had been seen in public.

    Singh was outside the Camp St McDonald’s, where he has worked for six months, helping another crew member deal with drunks jumping on his car.

    “He came from behind and took my turban from my head forcibly,” Singh told the Indian Weekender.

    “I have never shown my hair in public – it is against my religion. It is very embarrassing for me. When he took the turban off, my

    hair fell out. I went downstairs because I did not want to show my hair. I started crying – it was very shocking for me.”

    Singh’s fellow crew members retrieved the turban and Sky Bar bouncers later detained a man.

    A 19-year-old Scotsman was arrested shortly before midnight and charged with disorderly behaviour likely to cause violence.

    Queenstown sergeant Kate Pirovano said: “He was drunk and probably didn’t realise the seriousness of his actions.”

    Singh said the man was let off and had returned to his country. “It should have been classed as an assault. In India it is taken very seriously, a serious crime. A police officer once knocked someone’s turban off and he lost his job. This has never happened before to me. I lived in Invercargill for four years.”

    National List MP Kanwaljit Singh Bakshi said the incident was a reminder of the importance of recognising cultural differences.

    “I’m pleased the police are handling this unfortunate case; however, such incidents highlight the need to remember the multicultural nature of our society. It also serves to remind us that we must be more understanding and tolerant of the different cultural practices undertaken within our communities.

    “All cultures, religions, and ethnic groups have unique practices and protocols. One of the most significant for the Sikh religion is the requirement of Sikh men to wear a turban. This tradition dates back to 1469,” Mr Bakshi said.

    This is not the first time the Sikh headwear has caused issues in New Zealand. Three years ago, a Sikh businessman in Auckland was refused service at a golf club bar recently because he was wearing a turban.

    Kharag Singh, 48, owner of the Everglade 4 Square supermarket and keen golfer, was refused service at the Aviation Country Golf Club bar in Auckland on February 28, 2010, after the day’s competition.
     
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  3. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    spoken like a true warrior singh
     
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  4. Ishna

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    Compare to American Idol's Gurpreet Singh Sarin's comment

     
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  5. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    I was just reading that thread, and thinking how inspirational one young man can be, you beat me to it sisji.

    Crying your eyes out because someone knocked your turban off, in my view, and I am sorry to be harsh, clearly shows someone not ready to proclaim to the world 'I am a Sikh'

    I wore my turban right up to age 28, and I had it knocked off many many a time. It is hard knowing what to do, get into a fight, put it back on and ignore, walk away, but the one thing I never ever did, was burst into tears and call the police.
     
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    #4 Harry Haller, Feb 16, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2013
  6. Ishna

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    I guess though, if they were his beliefs, and he's self-conscious of his hair, he probably would have been very upset. Regardless of why, if that's how he felt at the time it wouldn't have been very nice.

    Maybe he can use the experience towards his spiritual growth. I hope so.
     
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  7. Brother Onam

    Brother Onam United States
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    Leave it to Brother Onam to bring the dissenting voice again.
    If I read correctly, he is working at McDonalds.
    McDonalds!
    I hate to have to be the one to say it, but if you are working at McDonalds, you have already renounced dignity and honour.
    If anyone take the time to learn of the actual impact of McDonalds, it would be unconscionable to work or ever go there.
    In terms of environmental devastation, human rights, animal abuse, mass-production of bad, brutal 'food', third-world destruction, colossal pollution, I mean massive, global pollution to our Divine Mother Earth... on and on.
    This is quite literally the temple of the Beast. For those who believe in compassion, health, justice and genuine peace, and believe that this Creation is holy, it is absolutely unforgivable to both frequent and work in this wicked business. As soon as you go through those doors, you cast off any dignity you have, and when you emerge, clutching your little sack of blood and violence and filth, you walk away a defeated man or woman.
    So, it's nice to attach pride to the significance of dastaar, but in the absence of the greater sense of being angels of Har Har in our everyday interactions, it is reduced to cosmetic. A true Sikh, who tries to serve the Word 24/7, will have to eat living foods, speak only living words, seek only living occupation, spread Light, spread Love, spread healing.
    McDonalds produces low-food for low-people, who move in darkness; an angel of Light can have no business there.
     
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  8. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    I am afraid I have to disagree, the same can be said about many many institutions, churches, companies, etc etc.

    He has a job, good for him, at least he is not living off others, I cannot agree with his attitude to what happened to him, but I respect him for working and earning a living.

    Most banks have blood on their hands, as do petrol companies, insurance companies, should one not work for those either?
     
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  9. Brother Onam

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    Harry ji,
    It's true that most entities are unclean. But I find one (humans; not Sikhs specifically) of our great weaknesses is our perpetual willingness to justify or rationalize our predations or compromises. And we end up on a planet that is chewed up, polluted, digested and piecemeal turned into crap, as if eaten by termites. And just like termites, you'll find no guilty termite -every individual is just doing what they need to do to get by-, but the cumulative result is nevertheless total destruction.
    Lord Buddha taught that one of the eight foundations of liberation is "right livlihood". Nobody goes through this life unsullied, but we still must draw lines; we must still adhere to principles. And if we can close our eyes to so egregious an entity as McDonalds, I think just about any occupation can be explained away. There may indeed be CEOs or perhaps tyrants or terrorists or satanic priests somewhere that just embody evil, but in my esteem, these perpetrators could not cause destruction without the willing participation or acquiecence (sorry about spelling) of thousands upon thousands of every-day people who explain away, or else operate unaware (and this kind of ignorance is intensely encouraged by those at the controls), of their role in digesting the holy world.
     
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  10. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Question directed to interested forum members. In many countries the experience of Mr. Singh would be considered an assault punishable by fines and jail-time. For example, in many of the states in the United States his experience would be charged as an assault and a hate crime, which leads to a more severe sentence.

    Do any forum members know how, in their country, manhandling another person and tearing off the dastaar would be charged? For the sake of argument let's treat it as an attack of someone who is not familiar to the victim, so that the many Sikh on Sikh gurdwara fights that we witness on a regular basis are not part of the equation.

    So that is the question. How would or does the law apply, how would the event be charged in your country?
     
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    #9 spnadmin, Feb 16, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2013
  11. spnadmin

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    An observation. Thanks Harry ji

    Sikhs worldwide cannot be thought to fulfill the stereotype of only working as taxi-drivers and IT specialsits. Sikhs work as professionals (in medicine and the allied health professions), scientists (for example, in pharmacological research), banking (frequently in multinational corporations), law-enforcement (often for federal level investigative purposes), as politicians, as lawyers and judges, as academics in major research universities, as fashion designers, in television and news, as small and large business owners and entrepreneurs. Anyone of them wearing dastaar could be assaulted at any time. Any one and all of them deserves equal protection under the law. The law does not ask about the cleaness/uncleaness of their calling in life. That is the nature of the "rule of law." Otherwise the world would be run by posses of gun-slingers on horseback making judgement calls. Possibly the worst posses of all make faith-based judgement calls based on blindness of religious belief.
     
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  12. Chaan Pardesi

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    I disagree with the suggestion that working in Macdonalds results in poor dignity or honour.This is the most ridiculous statement of the century.A sikh is supposed to earn an honest living-Kirt kamii.As long as he is doing that without contravening his religious values and principles, it is ok and acceptable.

    I am in total agreement with harry haller ji.

    Onam says'' In terms of environmental devastation, human rights, animal abuse, mass-production of bad, brutal 'food', third-world destruction, colossal pollution, I mean massive, global pollution to our Divine Mother Earth... on and on.''

    Onam ha sperhaps forgotten that Sikh sants and kar sewa babas too have done colosal damage and raape and destruction of sikh history, books and historical sikh shrines and gurduaras in the name of their success and abilities, under the pretext of 'sewa'.

    So Macdonalds that provides jobs for millions is not the only culprit at times.Sikh babas are no better, using the name of religion.
     
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  13. Brother Onam

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    Sat Sri Akaal,

    I think I figured out what's happening here:
    I'm insane.
    The only sense I can make of this is, either all of you all are deluded or I'm insane.
    And the mathematical probability suggests overwhelmingly that I must be the crazy one.
    I've seen lunatics on the street talking complete nonsense, which to them is perfectly reasonable, or writing gibberish on papers that in their minds makes some kind of sense.
    And I think this must be what's going on here.
    To my mind, when I study the ways of this world, I believe I'm witnessing a slow and enexorable motion of heedless self-destruction. I believe somehow humans have allowed themselves to be governed by a kind of madness that allows us to systematically destroy the very forces of life and engage on a path of suicidal behaviour. In my mind, I think I'm seeing people emptying the oceans of life with devasting long-line and driftnet fishing; pollute the oceans so badly that there are islands of plastic the size of large countries churning in 'dead-zones' in our precious oceans; the 'sand' on some of our beaches is 1/4 particulate plastic, factories blast toxic fumes unrelentingly into the precious environment; the very last stands of virgin rainforest are being razed from Indonesia to Brazil. West Africa, once 100% forested is now down to about 1% rainforest, and that remaining percent is being swiftly destroyed for cheap lumber; the life-giving breeze has become deadly, the life-giving sun is our enemy, the life-giving waters are fouled to the point of bringing death and disease; multinational corporations are stripping every last resource from the earth in quest of profits, at the expense of tribal peoples, ancient farm communities, turning everything they touch into waste. Finally, and much too late, scientists are starting to sound the alarms of imminent and total self-destruction, even announcing we are at or past the 'tipping-point', at which point the damage can no longer be reversed.
    And we speak of who is namdhari and who is keshdhari or nihang, or whether McDonalds is providing good jobs and is, on the whole, no worse than anybody else... People, these things won't matter when we can no longer breathe, and viruses and cancers have put our children in the grave and humans will have turned this planet into a chewed-up, polluted moonscape.
    But, as I said, I'm feeling now like I am indeed insane. So I apologize for subjecting my fellow Sikhs to all this ranting. I genuinely feel I am totally nuts. If this is so clear to me and really invisible to (almost) everyone else, I am truly insane.
    Waheguru
     
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  14. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    I do not know why one side or the other has to be insane or deluded. Please explain that. A difference of opinion is not a psychiatric condition.
     
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  15. Brother Onam

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    Thank you for your patience with me.
    Here is what I'm seeing: We are on an 'island'. The island is on fire, not by 'act-of-god', but by our own doing. Everything we know, everything, all people, all friends, family, all children, all animals, all history everywhere, all architecture, all culture, philosophies, traditions, all music of every kind, every river, flower, oceans, all beauty... are about to be destroyed. Not metaphorically, but truly, genuinely destroyed. Forever.
    Tigers are dying (of the 7 types of tigers, three have been eliminated during the last 40-50 years, and of the remaining four types, three are virtually extinct; the great Bengal tiger is barely hanging on), Orangutangs are dying; their last remaining habitat, the rainforests of Borneo, are being felled unrelentingly, Gorillas are dying; of the tens of thousands that roamed the forests of Central Africa once, perhaps less than 400 remain there. Extinction, as they say, is forever. As impoverished Africans slave away in hellish 'mines' to extract minerals so desired for the production of cellphones and computors, they will kill any gorilla they can find for cheap 'bushmeat'. Salamanders are dying, bats are dying, honeybees are dying, tapirs are dying, Pandas are almost extinct in the wild; Narwhales and Blue Whales are dying, Black rhinos are dying, coral reefs and the very oceans themselves are dying.
    Humans, governed by a strange spirit of madness, have become a disease to the Earth. Wherever we settle, like a cancer, our surroundings begin to die.

    "The planet is dying. It may already be too late to recover. The Earth's immune system is trying to get rid of us. We are a disease on the face of the Earth. We should be syphilis with a conscience -stop reproducing." -Kurt Vonnegut

    If I am right, and not imagining it or exaggerating it, we are witnessing and participating in the utter destruction of Har Har's blessed green Earth.
    The reason I'm so at a loss is because, if you observe, if you study, if you consider, (which is all I do -I'm not very bright, but I always observe and consider), and we get some awareness of what's going on, we would be alarmed -no, more than alarmed, outraged, no, more than outraged, in a frenzy! to halt this steamroller. Arresting this plunge would be paramount; above all other issues. Not because this is my pet interest and I want everyone else to see it that way too, but because if I am not deluded, there is no higher matter now.
    And in light of that, when I look at something like McDonalds, -if you consider-, it is impossible to look past the wickedness of a business such as this. I don't mean they are a generally benign operation that has some unavoidable negatives that come with it, like any big business. I mean, in a sane world, they would be seen as wicked from the ground up. The torment and horror that goes on in their (hidden, of course) mass-killing plants all day long, every day, the environmental destruction that they necessarily perpetrate, the catastrophic pollution they generate (one styrofoam cup or plastic bottle is an offense to our Mother Earth), the nasty, mass-produced garbage 'food' they sell... on and on.
    The point I'm making is, to me this is all clear as day. This strikes me as an intelligent forum. If so many voices are arrayed against me, more or less defending something like McDonalds, or downplaying the significance of our global demolition, -something that is so indisputably, irrefutably wrong to me; well, I question my sanity. I genuinely wonder if I may be insane now. I'm not being sarcastic.
    Again, thank you for your patience with me, and I sincerely apologize for the many words.
    Onam Balwant Singh
     
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  16. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    Onamji

    what you have described is called life. It is my belief that we deal with it the best way we can, and make whatever differences we can on a local level.There is a lot we cannot do, but the beggar down the street could do with a hot meal, there are sick and elderly in hospital that could do with a visit, it is the local community aspect we should be looking at, because then we really can make a difference.

    You sound very angry, and anger is never a good way to be dealing with things.

    There may well be a global conspiracy, there may be a huge bunch of lizards running things, our job is to make a difference to those whom we can help, for that reason, we get to wear a turban, to proclaim loudly, we are here to help, to assist, to comfort, to fight.

    The turban does not signify that we also play global politics, that is something below us and our mission statement.For the answer why? read Animal Farm.
     
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  17. Luckysingh

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    Anyway, getting back to the turban issue.
    Well said Harryji, this is no way a Singh has to behave !
    OK make some noise since it is 'Assault with intent' and 'hate crime' but you don't have to go running to hide away like a cry baby leaving the attacker to carry on laughing with his mates.

    Then again, may be it's about personal dignity !
    A little like someone taking your pajamma off!!
    Although that wouldn't bother me since I don't have any personal dignity any more.

    A sikh doesn't cry.
    A sikh let's them saw his head off if they wan't his khesh off, but he doesn't go running covering his grey hair !
    Even though head butting is not my style (more of a skin head thing)
    I'm sure that in this case, I would have done just that- with the very head that was exposed because the turban was off, I would have head butted him full frontal and straight in the nose !
    Then I would call the police and explain my reaction.
     
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    #16 Luckysingh, Feb 18, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2013
  18. spnadmin

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    Thanks for returning to the topic.
     
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  19. TigerStyleZ

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    Omg.... I am glad that we have a proud and rich history of great Shaheeds and true warriors... Because if not I would never ever be a Sikh , if I would hear such stories:

    “I have never shown my hair in public – it is against my religion. It is very embarrassing for me. When he took the turban off, my hair fell out. I went downstairs because I did not want to show my hair. I started crying – it was very shocking for me.”

    .... this would double ashame me.. It happens that Turban falls off, thats why a sikh needs to have train martial art and self defence... furthermore if it happens - it just happens ... but you should start growing ***** and kick their asses I wouldnt care if my hair would be seen by anyone i would bind it to a bun and fight these guys.. if i could not handle this peacefully...

    And to SPNAdmin;
    I dont know how the law here in Germany is , but I guess it would be handled in a individual way, because it never really happend here.. we aren´t much here in germany about 10,000 - 20,000Sikhs
     
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    #18 TigerStyleZ, Feb 18, 2013
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  20. Chaan Pardesi

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    census shows Germany has the third largest sikh population in Europe after UK, Italy.The sikh population in Germany in 2011 was 40000.There are Gurduaras in most large German towns approximately twenty or more Gurduaras now?.Whether these are visible sikhs or not is another story, as I have found out.Also, most sikhs opt to move on to UK whenever the opportunity arises.
     
  21. TigerStyleZ

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    @Chaan Pardesi,

    where do you take the statistics from? Any sources? My datats were about people who attend to gurudwara and practice/try to practice. But its possible my datas from this site which reported 2008 thatthere are about 12.000 Sikhs :
    http://www.abendblatt.de/hamburg/article500388/In-Deutschland-leben-etwa-12-000-Sikhs.html

    I never ever saw realstatistics from Sikhs in Germany.

    I just have an english Wikipedia site:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikhism_in_Germany

    and some German sites but I dont think their statistics are right

    Here some Gurudwaras: http://sikh-religion.de/html/gurdwara-adressen.html
     
    #20 TigerStyleZ, Feb 19, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2013

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