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Difference between us and the Gurus?

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by AngloSikhPeace, Dec 25, 2014.

  1. AngloSikhPeace

    AngloSikhPeace United Kingdom
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    Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh.

    Okay, I know I said that I wouldn't go here any more, but forget that :)



    What is the nature of Guruji, what is Guruji's relation to Waheguru, and what is the difference between us and Guruji? People say that Guruji is Waheguru made manifest, but if there's no distinction between the Creator and the Creation, if everything is Waheguru's Name, then surely all of creation is a manifestation of God? And if the human soul is a part of Waheguru, then what is Guruji's soul?
     
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  3. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Guru = Bani = Guru = No differences vich bani AMRIT SAREH.
    Guru is Paras....and he makes others Paras ( something like the Midas Touch..whatever Midas touched turned to Gold..BUT here what ever the GURU touches..becomes the GURU..Paras to paras (not gold..BUT the ability to turn everything into Gold)..

    When Guru Nanak ji touched Bhai Lehnna ji..Bahi Lehnna Ji became GURU...and Today the GURU is SGGS..and whoever is TOUCHED by the SGGS becomes BANI and the GURU..

    The Gurbani clearly states that our ultimate aim is to BECOME GURBANI...and that means we get all the AMRIT that is in the Gurbani..and we become indistinguishable from Gurbani..

    The GURU has not kept any secrets form us..he has not kept certain powers only for himself..he has no whispers of naam..every CARD is on the table in Plain sight..we CHOOSE to follow..we choose to become what we want...

    When one candle is used to light another..they BOTH give out the SAME LIGHT..one is NOT DIMINISHED..the other doesnt get Extra....BOTH = BOTH. A Blown out "candle" CANNOT light another...!!!
     
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  4. Sherdil

    Sherdil
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    Yes, you are right. Everything is a manifestation of Waheguru.

    The difference between us and Guru ji is that we have Haumai (I am). Guru ji did not have any Haumai (I am).

    Guru ji fully realized his Oneness, whereas we have yet to realize our Oneness.
     
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  5. AngloSikhPeace

    AngloSikhPeace United Kingdom
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    Thanks for the answers!
     
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  6. Ishna

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    Waheguru and Guruji (the non-human use of the word) are the same. "Wahe" is just a prefix, an exclamation, an emphasis.

    Guruji is life. Life is the greatest teacher.

    I always ask myself, before Gurbani was written down, who was Guru Nanak's Guru?
     
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  7. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Guru nanak Ji sahib was indeed asked that very question..and its answered by Guru nanak ji in Siddh Ghosht.
     
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  8. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Recently Malaysia was flooded very badly....and a Gurdwara was submerged....and all the SGGS in it were under water for a couple of days. 3 Sikh families reside on the ptremises but they were unable to bring out the SGGs when they evacuated. pictures show the SGGS after the water receeded.
     

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  9. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    The question is..did the "Guru" drown...and has to be consigned to a cremation (after drying it out)....and the answer is NO..the GURU is Indestructible..its the Shabad.
     
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  10. AngloSikhPeace

    AngloSikhPeace United Kingdom
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    Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh.

    But what's the difference between Humanity and the Guru? What's the actual definition of what the Guru is?

    The Guru is the Shabad as you correctly say, but what's the difference between matter and Gurbani? If everything's part of Waheguru, then what's so special about Gurbani that makes it enlightening? I'm not questioning the fact that it is enlightening, that's pretty self-evident. But what's the special quality that makes it so, that gives it cosmic importance? What separates it from the mundane things in our lives?

    I've tried asking questions about this to other people but generally outside the internet a) I can't formulate my thoughts cleanly, and b) the other people aren't able to give a long response. I've heard explanations involving the reincarnation of the Gurus from various mythical heroes, but I'm well aware that this is not the only answer and it also skirts around the core question.
     
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  11. Luckysingh

    Luckysingh Canada
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    The answer is the ''shabad''
    But is this shabad the same that is written with words/akhar, that Guru Nanak ji is talking about ??.........not quite...you will have to find it !


    and Angloji...GU-RU is that who takes you from darkness to light......the one that can guide you to God.......the matchmaker......vichola....
    Everyone has always needed a Guru to guide them in order to join them to God.
    The sikh of the khalsa has the eternal guru.
    .......like I say, Guru is vichola,...just like a wedding matchmaker....which is why Guru Nanak ji enforced that we do not worship him !!
    How many married couples hang a picture of their vichola and pay reverence to it ?
     
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  12. Sherdil

    Sherdil
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    When one reads gurbani, one will notice that it plays out like a dialogue.

    Gurbani is a conversation between the aatma (self) and the param-aatma (greater self).

    The aatma (self) is a part of the mind that identifies itself as Nanak, or any other name. The aatma views itself as an individual that is separate from everything else. It is self-conscious.

    The param-aatma (greater self) is a part of the mind that identifies itself as the One. It views itself as a part of everything. It is God-conscious.

    Param-aatma is another name for God. Therefore, gurbani is considered "Dhur ki Baani" - Divine revelation.

    Gurbani is a guide to help us realize the param-aatma within ourselves. The same Divine which wrote gurbani is within us and all around us. This is the Shabadh Guru.
     
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  13. AngloSikhPeace

    AngloSikhPeace United Kingdom
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    Interesting. So the Shabad-Guru is everything that allows us to realise the Param-aatma? Does this only include Gurbani in the literal sense (ie the teachings of the Sikh Gurus) or can the teachings of other faiths allow this realisation to take place?

    And what does it mean to 'realise the param-aatma?' Accepting the Unity of all within Waheguru on a conscious, rational level is tricky but obviously not impossible or even rare. Does realising the param-aatma then mean fully-accepting this Unity of Being both consciously and unconsciously, so that we act and think in total accordance with it? Or does it refer to acquiring a supernatural or metaphysical state of existence, like Nirvana in Buddhism?
     
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  14. Sherdil

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    The Shabadh Guru is param-aatma. The Shabadh is everything around you, including you as well.

    I don't think other faiths teach exactly the same thing that Sikhism does. There is some truth in every faith, but there are also many differences amongst various faiths. For example, Sikhi considers this life to be an opportunity to realize God, whereas other faiths believe that God is only met in the afterlife.

    I'll answer with an analogy, because it is easier:

    Some people are afraid of the dark. Even though they know there is nothing to be afraid of, they still have some doubt subconsciously. They still have symptoms of fear (fast heart beat, tense muscles, goosebumps, etc).

    So there is a difference between understanding and realization.

    When you realize there is nothing to fear, then you do not have the symptoms of fear.

    When you realize your Oneness, you do not suffer from the 5 Thieves.

    In short, realization involves the conscious and the subconscious.
     
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  15. Ishna

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    Guru Nanak Sahib Ji answers it in a circular fashion typical of Gurbani. Guru is Shabad and Shabad is Guru.

    Doesn't really answer the question.

    Because the subject is too subtle for words.
     
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  16. Luckysingh

    Luckysingh Canada
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    No Ishna, sorry to say....there is no circular fashion or roundabout mumbling of answers in gurbani.
    The answer is very clear....and that is the 'Shabad-Guru'.
    I know you are giving your honest answer according to your understanding and that is absolutely fine....I'm not saying you are wrong...but the answer and the whole of gurbani becomes quite clear the further you delve into it. Therefore, I'm just giving you an idea of some of the precision used in answering the question by Guruji.

    He goes on to say that he is the chela(follower/student), of the shabad dhun(reverberation/vibration).
    This clearly tells me that you have to listen to this shabad and feel it's dhun.

    When you find this shabad and feel it's dhun, then you come to realize that there is a very clear and distinct difference with Shabad-Guru and Guru-shabad.
    Therefore, I'm also afraid that your mention of 'Shabad is guru and guru is shabad' is not quite right.
     
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  17. Luckysingh

    Luckysingh Canada
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    Nice post Sherdil ji.
    Yes, the shabad guru is within us all, just like the jyot...like divine truth....sachkhand...in fact the whole divine Gobind(universe) is present within and outside of us.
    The only problem is that due to our duality...ego and the illusion of separation which exists in our minds.
    Going from manmat to gurmat....from manmukh to gurmukh.. we can begin to make the Truth manifest and bring that veil down.
     
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