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Bhagats Did The Mandir ROTATE For Bhagat Namdev Ji?

Discussion in 'History of Sikhism' started by Gyani Jarnail Singh, Jan 19, 2011.

  1. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
    Mentor Writer SPNer Contributor

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    Preface: Can we conclude that Bhagat Namdev is a Krishan Bhagat ? On the surface it seems that way and why not ? He lives in Pandit pur which is Krishan worshipping area, and naturally up to this incident Bhagat Namdev Ji too must have believed in Krishan as the Creator Lord as the Shaabd clearly puts questions that ONLY the CREATOR can answer.

    ਸਤਿ
    ਗੁਰ
    ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ


    ਭਗਤ ਜਨਾਂ ਕਉ ਦੇਹੁਰਾ ਫਿਰੈ॥
    Bhagat Janan Ko Dehora Fireh!!

    ਭਗਤ ਨਾਮਦੇਉ ਜੀ ਦਾ, ਗੁਰੁ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ ਦੇ, ੧੧੬੪ ਅੰਗ ਤੇ ਸ਼ਬਦ ਹੈ ਜਿਸ ਦੀ ਇਹ ਤੁਕਹੈ, ਆਉ ਅੱਜ ਇਸ ਸ਼ਬਦ ਦੀ ਹੀ ਵਿਚਾਰ ਕਰਦੇ ਹਾਂ। ਸ਼ਬਦ ਹੈ:

    Bhagat nmadev has a shabad on Page 1164 of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Lets discuss this shabad.

    ਹਸਤਖੇਲਤਤੇਰੇਦੇਹੁਰੇਆਇਆ॥ਭਗਤਿਕਰਤਨਾਮਾਪਕਰਿਉਠਾਇਆ॥੧॥
    ਹੀਨੜੀਜਾਤਿਮੇਰੀਜਾਦਿਮਰਾਇਆ॥ਛੀਪੇਕੇਜਨਮਿਕਾਹੇਕਉਆਇਆ॥੧॥ਰਹਾਉ॥
    ਲੈਕਮਲੀਚਲਿਓਪਲਟਾਇ॥ਦੇਹੁਰੈਪਾਛੈਬੈਠਾਜਾਇ॥੨॥
    ਜਿਉਜਿਉਨਾਮਾਹਰਿਗੁਣਉਚਰੈ॥ਭਗਤਜਨਾਂਕਉਦੇਹੁਰਾਫਿਰੈ॥੩॥ (੧੧੬੪)


    ਰਹਾਉ
    = ਭਗਤ ਨਾਮਦੇਉ ਜੀ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਅੱਗੇ ਇੱਕ ਵਿਚਾਰ ਰਖਦੇ ਹਨ, ਇੱਕ ਸਵਾਲ ਪੁਛਦੇ ਹਨ ਕਿ ਹੇ ਯਾਦਵਾਂ ਦੇ ਰਾਜੇ ਕ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਨ ਜੀ, ਜੇ ਛੀਂਬੇ ਦੀ ਜਾਤ ਹੀਨੜੀ ਹੈ, ਹੀਨ ਭਾਵਨਾ ਪੈਦਾ ਕਰਨ ਵਾਲੀ ਹੈ, ਨੀਚ ਜਾਤੀ ਹੈ, ਤਾਂ ਮੈਂ ਇਸ ਜਾਤੀ ਵਿੱਚ ਕਿਉਂ ਆਇਆ ਹਾਂ? ਤੂੰ ਮੈਨੂੰ ਇਸ ਜਾਤੀ ਵਿੱਚ ਕਿਉਂ ਭੇਜਿਆ ਹੈ? ਕੀ ਮੇਰੇ ਕਰਮ ਏਨੇ ਹੀ ਭੈੜੇ ਸਨ ਕਿ ਤੂੰ ਮੈਨੂੰ, ਛੀਂਬੇ ਦੀ ਜਾਤ ਵਿੱਚ ਘੱਲਦਾ?

    Bhagat namdev is saying he is in the Mandir of Krishan Lord of the Yadavs. He puts forward a question: OH Lord Krishan, Lord of the Yadavs, the Caste I belong to..CHHIMBA is LOW CASTE,,it brings with it feelings of lowness, then WHY AM I BORN in such a caste ? Why did YOU send me into this Low Caste ? Did I commit such low karmas to get into this low caste ?

    1. Can we conclude that Bhagat Namdev is a Krishan Bhagat ? On the surface it seems that way and why not ? He lives in Pandit pur which is Krishan worshipping area, and naturally up to this incident Bhagat Namdev Ji too must have believed in Krishan as the Creator Lord as the Shaabd clearly puts questions that ONLY the CREATOR can answer.

    2. He clearly came to the Krishan mandir to offer his prayers. He must have felt that the Krishan Moortee/idol in that Mandir is the Creator Lord.He came happily into the Mandir, sat before the Moortee of Krishan Ji and began to do “bhagtee”...

    3. Then what happened ? The Brahmins stepped IN and Forcibly REMOVED Namdev Ji form the Moortee’s presence and even pushed him OUT of the mandir.

    4. Hence the questions that arose in namdev Jis mind after this episode are the ones he raises in this Shaabd .

    a) did YOU send me into this low caste and why ?? What bad deeds did I do to get into this situation ?

    b) Since you sent me into a Human Body ( which incidentally is the ONLY WAY to achieve UNITY with the Lord Creator) giving me and the WOMEN human birth..BUT in a Low caste and Female form – thus NEGATING Holy Union with the Creator ?? This doesn’t make sense to me !! You gave me a Human form so i could achieve UNION with YOU, BUT you then made sure I was born in a Low caste that has NO RIGHT to do any Bhagtee or even visit your mandirs ??

    c) are these really YOUR TERMS ? are these Pandits and Holy Brahmins really YOUR SERVANTS that carry out your commands and wishes to keep low castes like me and women out of YOUR Mandirs ??

    d) Is this really YOUR Mandir ?? Your Moortee ? Is this the place to achieve UNION with YOU ??

    ਇਸ ਵਿਚੋਂ ਇਹ ਸਾਬਤ ਨਹੀਂ ਹੁੰਦਾ ਕਿ ਨਾਮਦੇਉ ਜੀ, ਕ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਨ ਦੇ ਭਗਤ ਸਨ। ਬਲਕਿ ਇਹ ਜ਼ਾਹਰ ਹੋ ਰਿਹਾ ਹੈ ਕਿ, ਪੰਡਰ ਪੁਰ ਰਹਣ ਕਾਰਨ, ਇਲਾਕਾ ਵਾਸੀਆਂ ਦੇ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਵ ਹੇਠ (ਉਸ ਵੇਲੈ ਤਕ) ਉਹ ਵੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਨ ਨੂੰ ਹੀ ਭਗਵਾਨ ਕਰ ਕੇ ਸਮਝਦੇ ਸਨ। ਮੰਦਰ ਵਿਚਲੀ, ਕ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਨ ਦੀ ਮੂਰਤੀ ਨੂੰ ਹੀ ਭਗਵਾਨ ਸਮਝਦੇ ਸਨ। ਏਸੇ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਵ ਹੇਠ ਉਹ ਮੰਦਰ ਵਿੱਚ ਕ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਨ ਦੀ ਮੂਰਤੀ ਦੀ ਭਗਤੀ ਕਰਨ ਗਏ ਸਨ।

    = ਭਗਤ ਜੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਨ ਰੂਪ ਭਗਵਾਨ ਨੂੰ, ਅਪਣੇ ਸਵਾਲ ਬਾਰੇ ਸਪੱਸ਼ਟ ਕਰਦੇ ਕਹਿੰਦੇ ਹਨ ਕਿ, ਹੇ ਭਗਵਾਨ ਕਹਾਉਂਦੇ ਯਾਦਵਾਂ ਦੇ ਰਾਜੇ, ਜਦ ਮੈਂ ਹਸਦਾ ਖੇਡਦਾ, ਬੜੇ ਚਾਉ ਨਾਲ, ਤੇਰੇ ਮੰਦਰ ਵਿੱਚ ਤੇਰੀ ਪੂਜਾ ਕਰਨ ਗਿਆ, ਅਤੇ ਤੇਰੀ ਭਗਤੀ ਕਰਨ ਲੱਗਾ, ਤਾਂ ਮੈਨੂੰ, ਨਾਮੇ ਨੂੰ, ਭਗਤੀ ਕਰਦੇ ਨੂੰ, ਤੇਰੇ ਪੁਜਾਰੀਆਂ ਨੇ ਬਾਹੋਂ ਫੜ ਕੇ ਉਠਾ ਦਿੱਤਾ, ਤੇਰੇ ਮੰਦਰ ਵਿਚੋਂ ਬਾਹਰ ਕੱਢ ਦਿੱਤਾ। ਹੁਣ ਮੇਰੇ ਕੁੱਝ ਸਵਾਲ ਹਨ, ਧਿਆਨ ਨਾਲ ਸੁਣ। ਇੱਕ ਤਾਂ ਕੀ ਮੈਂ ਅਜਿਹੇ ਮਾੜੇ ਕਮ ਕੀਤੇ ਸਨ, ਜੋ ਤੂੰ ਮੈਨੂੰ ਇਸ ਛੀਂਬੇ ਦੇ ਜਨਮ ਵਿੱਚ ਭੇਜਿਆ, ਜਿਸ ਨੂੰ ਭਗਤੀ ਕਰਨ ਦਾ ਵੀ ਕੋਈ ਅਧਿਕਾਰ ਨਹੀਂ? ਜੇ ਤੂੰ ਹੀ ਇਹ ਜਾਤਾਂ ਬਣਾਈਆਂ ਹਨ, ਜਿਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਵਿੱਚ ਬੰਦੇ ਨੂੰ ਭਗਤੀ ਕਰਨ ਦਾ ਕੋਈ ਅਧਿਕਾਰ ਨਹੀਂ ਤਾਂ ਇਹ ਮਨੁੱਖਾ ਜੂਨ, ਜੋ ਤੂੰ ਹੀ, ਭਗਤੀ ਕਰ ਕੇ ਤੇਰੇ ਨਾਲ ਇੱਕ ਮਿਕ ਹੋਣ ਦੇ ਵਸੀਲੇ ਵਜੋਂ ਬਣਾਈ ਹੈ, ਤਾਂ ਮੈਨੂੰ, ਜਾਂ ਮੇਰੇ ਵਰਗੇ ਹੋਰ ਨੀਵੀਆਂ ਜਾਤੀਆਂ ਵਾਲਿਆਂ ਨੂੰ, ਸਾਰੀ ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ ਜਾਤੀ ਸਮੇਤ ਇਹ ਜੂਨ ਦੇਣ ਦਾ ਕੀ ਲਾਭ? ਅਸੀਂ ਤੇਰੇ ਨਾਲ ਕਿਵੇਂ ਮਿਲ ਸਕਦੇ ਹਾਂ?
    (ਭਗਵਾਨ ਕੋਲੋਂ ਪੁਛੇ ਇਸ ਸਵਾਲ ਵਿੱਚ ਨੀਵੀਆਂ ਜਾਤਾਂ ਵਾਲਿਆਂ, ਔਰਤਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਚਨੌਤੀ ਅਤੇ ਮੂਰਤੀ ਰੂਪੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਨ ਭਗਵਾਨ ਦੀ ਨਿਰਾਰਥਿਕਤਾ ਦਾ ਹੋਕਾ ਸੀ।)
    ਦੂਸਰਾ ਇਹ ਕਿ, ਹੇ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਕੀ ਇਹ ਮੂਰਤੀ ਤੇਰਾ ਹੀ ਰੂਪ ਹੈ, ਜਿਸ ਦੀ ਭਗਤੀ ਕਰਨ ਦਾ ਵੀ ਮੈਨੂੰ ਕੋਈ ਅਧਿਕਾਰ ਨਹੀਂ? ਕੀ ਇਹ ਮੰਦਰ ਤੇਰਾ ਹੀ ਨਿਵਾਸ ਅਸਥਾਨ ਹੈ, ਜਿਸ ਵਿੱਚ ਦਾਖਲ ਹੋਣ ਦਾ ਵੀ ਮੈਨੂੰ ਕੋਈ ਅਧਿਕਾਰ ਨਹੀਂ? ਕੀ ਇਹ ਮੰਦਰ ਦੇ ਪੁਜਾਰੀ ਤੇਰੇ ਹੀ ਭਗਤ ਹਨ, ਜੋ ਮੈਨੂੰ ਤੇਰੀ ਭਗਤੀ ਕਰਨ ਤੋਂ ਰੋਕਦੇ ਹਨ?

    5. Bhagat Namdev ji GOT NO ANSWERS. That is perfectly natural because the Pandits and the Brahmins had NO ANSWERS to such embarrassing questions especially they and their high castes being put under the scanner by a low caste tailor. So where were the answers to come from...FROM THE GYAAN GURU HIMSELF..sitting WITHIN EACH OF US..and in Nmadev jis HIRDAH !!

    6. Thats what Bhagat Namdev Ji did..SEARCH WITHIN. And that is mentioned in the concluding 2 Padas of this shabad.
    ਪਰ ਜਿਵੇਂ ਕਿ ਸਾਰੇ ਜਾਣਦੇ ਹਨ ਕਿ ਨਾਮਦੇਉ ਜੀ ਨੂੰ ਇਸ ਸਵਾਲ ਦਾ ਜਵਾਬ ਕਿਸ ਕੋਲੋਂ ਅਤੇ ਕਿਵੇਂ ਮਿਲਣਾ ਸੀ? ਇਸ ਦਾ ਜਵਾਬ ਸਿਰਫ ਗਿਆਨ ਗੁਰੂ ਦੀ ਸਿਖਿਆ ਅਨੁਸਾਰ ਭਗਤ ਜੀ ਨੇ ਅਪਣੇ ਅੰਦਰੋਂ ਹੀ ਲੱਭਣਾ ਸੀ, ਇਹੀ ਉਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਨੇ ਕੀਤਾ, ਜਿਸ ਦਾ ਵਰਣਨ ਉਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਨੇ ਅਗਲੇ ਦੋ ਪਦਿਆਂ ਵਿੱਚ ਕੀਤਾ ਹੈ।

    7. WHEN the pundits and the Brahmins took hold of my arms and dragged me OUT of the Mandir and threw me OUT..I realised that THIS COULD NOT be the Mandir of the CREATOR LORD..the Moortee installed there could not be that of the Creator Lord.... So then what happened ??
    8. Heres the interesting part !! The SAKHI CREATORS tell us that Lo and Behold..the MANDIR swirled on its FOUNDATIONS...to FACE Bhagat namdev JI......

    9. BUT is that what really happened ?? Did the Mandir Face Namdev Ji..and DID HE THEN RE-ENTER it ?? Did the Moortee, the Brahmins the Pandits come out in awe and beg forgiveness form namdev Ji and allow him to continue his bhagtee ??

    = ਜਦੋਂ ਮੈਨੂੰ ਮੰਦਰ ਵਿਚੋਂ ਬਾਂਹ ਫੜ ਕੇ ਧੱਕੇ ਨਾਲ ਬਾਹਰ ਕੱਢ ਦਿੱਤਾ ਤਾਂ ਮੈਂ ਸਮਝ ਗਿਆ ਕਿ ਇਹ ਮੂਰਤੀ ਉਸ ਭਗਵਾਨ ਦੀ ਨਹੀਂ ਹੋ ਸਕਦੀ, ਜੋ ਸਭ ਨੂੰ ਜੀਵਨ ਦਿੰਦਾ ਹੈ, ਸਭ ਨੂੰ (ਬਿਨਾ ਵਿਤਕਰੇ ਦੇ) ਜ਼ਿੰਦਾ ਰਹਣ ਲਈ ਦਾਤਾਂ ਦਿੰਦਾ ਹੈ। ਜੋ ਸਭ ਦੇ ਅੰਦਰ ਵਸਦਾ ਹੈ। ਸੋ ਮੈਂ ਅਪਣੀ ਕੰਬਲੀ, ਅਪਣਾ ਸਾਰਾ ਸਮਾਨ ਲੈ ਕੇ, ਉਸ ਮੂਰਤੀ ਨਾਲੋਂ ਨਾਤਾ ਤੋੜ ਕੇ ਵਾਪਸ ਗਿਆ ਅਤੇ ਦੇਹੁਰੇ, ਮੰਦਰ ਦੇ ਪਿਛਵਾੜੇ ਜਾ ਕੇ ਬੈਠ ਗਿਆ। ਪੰਜਾਬੀ ਵਿੱਚ ਇੱਕ ਕਹਾਵਤ ਹੈ ਕਿ, ਭੁੰਜੇ ਸੌਣਾ ਤਾਂ ਪਰੇ ਕੀ ਅਖਵਾਉਣਾ? ਅਰਥਾਤ ਜਦੋਂ ਕਰਤਾਰ ਦੀ ਬਖਸ਼ੀ ਧਰਤੀ ਤੇ ਹੀ ਸੌਣਾ ਹੈ ਤਾਂ ਇਹ ਅਖਵਾਉਣ ਦੀ ਗੁੰਜਾਇਸ਼ ਕਿੱਥੇ ਕਿ ਪਰ੍ਹੇ ਹੋ ਕੇ ਸੌਂ? ਜਦ ਨਾਮਦੇਉ ਜੀ ਮੰਦਰ ਨਾਲੋਂ ਨਾਤਾ ਤੋੜ ਕੇ ਉਸ ਤੋਂ ਬਾਹਰ ਗਏ, ਤਾਂ ਫਿਰ ਮੰਦਰ ਨਾਲ ਕਾਹਦਾ ਮੋਹ? ਮੰਦਰ ਦੇ ਪਛਵਾੜੇ ਬੈਠਣ ਦੀ ਕੀ ਤੁਕ? ਸਪੱਸ਼ਟ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਭਗਤ ਜੀ ਮੰਦਰ ਦੇ ਪਛਵਾੜੇ ਨਹੀਂ ਬੈਠੇ, ਬਲਕਿ ਮੰਦਰ ਨੂੰ ਪਿੱਠ ਦੇ ਕੇ, ਸਦਾ ਲਈ ਤਿਆਗ ਬੈਠੇ।

    10. NO NO NO...Bhagat namdev Ji broke off all connections with that FALSE MANDIR, false moortee and false Pandits. He wanted UNION with the REAL CREATOR....and Namdev Ji had learnt that the Creator was NOT present in that place. Hence Namdev Ji TURNED HIS BACK and WALKED AWAY !!! the Mandir didn’t turn..Namdev Ji TURNED AWAY. Thats natural..he was thrown OUT...in a disgraceful manner ( there must have been harsh insults thrown his way as well )..so what earthly reason would Namdev ji have to still insist on sitting near the same mandir (at the back where he wouldnt be visible ??) No way. Namdev ji turned away and went elsewhere where he could do REAL BHAGTEE of the REAL CREATOR in real terms !! among HUMANITY.

    = ਜਿਵੇਂ ਜਿਵੇਂ ਨਾਮਾ ਹਰੀ ਦੇ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਉਂਦਾ ਹੈ, ਗੁਣਾਂ ਦੀ ਵਿਚਾਰ ਕਰਦਾ ਹੈ, ਉਸ ਦੀ ਬਿਬੇਕ ਬੁੱਧੀ ਜਾਗਦੀ ਜਾਂਦੀ ਹੈ, ਉਸਨੂੰ ਗਿਆਨ ਹੁੰਦਾ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਇਹ ਦੇਹੁਰਾ, ਇਹ ਮੰਦਰ ਭਗਤਾਂ ਦਾ ਨਹੀਂ, ਪੁਜਾਰੀਆਂ ਦੀ ਲੁੱਟ ਦਾ ਅੱਡਾ ਹੈ। ਇਹ ਪੁਜਾਰੀ ਭਗਵਾਨ ਦੇ ਭਗਤ ਨਹੀਂ, ਬਨਾਰਸ ਦੇ ਠੱਗ ਹਨ। ਇਹ ਮੂਰਤੀ, ਸਭ ਨੂੰ ਪਾਲਣ ਵਾਲੇ ਭਗਵਾਨ ਦੀ ਨਹੀਂ, ਉਸ ਦੀਆਂ ਮੂਰਤੀਆਂ ਤਾਂ ਇਹ ਚਲਦੇ ਫਿਰਦੇ, ਉਸ ਦੀ ਰਜ਼ਾ ਵਿੱਚ ਚਲਦੇ ਇਨਸਾਨ ਹਨ। ਇਹ ਮੂਰਤੀਆਂ ਤਾਂ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣ ਦੀ ਲੁੱਟ ਦਾ ਸਾਧਨ ਹਨ। ਇਹ ਜਾਤਾਂ ਪਾਤਾਂ, ਉਸ ਨਿਰਵੈਰ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦੀਆਂ ਬਣਾਈਆਂ ਹੋਈਆਂ ਨਹੀਂ ਹਨ ਬਲਕਿ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣ ਵਲੋਂ, ਅਪਣੇ ਲੁੱਟ ਜਾਲ ਨੂੰ ਪੱਕਿਆਂ ਕਰਨ ਲਈ ਸਮਾਜ ਵਿੱਚ ਪਾਈਆਂ ਹੋਈਆਂ ਵੰਡੀਆਂ ਹਨ।

    11. AS Nama began to sing the praises of the real creator,,sing His Gunns..his INNER MIND awoke..and he realised that this mandir/similar places/Brahmins etc are just places where the unwary are LOOTED. This is NOT His Place..nor His Bhgats..nor are the moortees of the Creator..His “Moortees” are the walking living breathing HUMANS who walk in HIS WAYS..who LIVE in His HUKM..who Love Him in their own ways.
    12. The Creator certainly DID NOT create all these castes..high or low..these divisions.. the enmity..the animosity..ALL these are HUMAN INVENTIONS created to LOOT and rule over fellow humans. He is sans enmity...sans fear..all LOVE..Fair to all and equally loving of all He created..
    (ਇਹ ਅਜਿਹੀ ਗੱਲ ਸੀ ਜਿਸ ਨੂੰ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣ ਹਜ਼ਮ ਨਹੀਂ ਕਰ ਸਕਦਾ ਸੀ, ਉਸ ਦਾ ਤਾਂ ਤਾਣਾ-ਬਾਣਾ ਹੀ ਇੱਟਾਂਦਾ ਮੰਦਰ, ਪੱਥਰ ਦੀਆਂ ਮੂਰਤੀਆਂ ਅਤੇ ਸਮਾਜ ਵਿੱਚ ਪਾਈਆਂ ਵੰਡੀਆਂ ਆਸਰੇ ਖੜਾ ਹੈ।)

    13. This is what the Brahmin/Pandit and.( Now....in the Sikh Context the Jathedars/Gyanis/Derawadee Sants/saadhs) !! CANNOT possibly “accept” ? How could they ? Their entire “religious Empire/Spider WEB” rests on the Foundation of Divide and Rule, keeping people divided and suppressed..away from KNOWLEDGE and GYAAN of the Shabad Guru. IF they had interpreted Bhagat namdev Jis Shaabd CORRECTLY that would have meant the ANNIHILATION and COLLAPSE of their religious authority/empire and looting places to close down. So they did the next best thing..their PR Machinery got into the act..and out came the... ”Wonderful fairy tale... the Tallest of all Tales... Mother of Tall tales... the SWIRLING MANDIR!! we have heard of Rotating restaurants on top of high rise buildings..this was the Rotating mandir of the 13th Century!! BOTH entirely MAN MADE!! except that “Rotating restaurants do exist... the Rotating mandir is FICTION.

    14. What a clever way to turn things on their heads... to assert that Bhagt namdev ji wasn’t at all annoyed at being thrown OUT of the Mandir... he didn’t break off with the Mandir or the moortee/idols or the Brahmins... He merely retreated to the BACK of the mandir and began to MEDITATE !! (ON WHAT ?? is not cleared in the PR Tall tale). But as Bhagat ji meditated more and more strongly... the Stone Building of the Mandir began to ROTATE on its Foundation to FACE the Bahgat sitting at the BACK.

    15. So these tall tales author wants us to believe that ESSENTIALLY NOTHING CHANGED... the Moortees, the idols the Brahmins high castes and namdevs low caste, females not welcome in Mandirs etc etc ALL STATUS QUO was maintained... all that Namdev Jis “bhagtee” achieved was a SOLE MANDIR ROTATING a little!! END of STORY... Now Back to your Low caste... Shudras not welcome in mandirs, women despised as lowly... etc etc etc... all back to square ONE!! HOW very CHARMING !! And many believed this Tall Tale and began to repeat it... much to the delight of its creators... and SIKH Gyanis and ragis also preached this tall tale very vigorously in Kirtan darbars and Gurdwaras... places where the GYAAN GURU... Shabad GURU Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is Parkash and this GURU proclaims loudly at every turn that the LAWS of the CREATOR are made so that they cannot be challenged... and hence something that has its ROOTS in the Earth..that something doesn’t walk about..trees don’t walk about..buildings dont move about... BUT then these people who LOOT in name of religion are very adept and clever at fooling others... they can make TREES move, Suns shadow stand still...buildings move... just so that their “looting of the innocents and the simple simons” can go on !!

    16. Its a sad commentary on the times that today even as much as 95% SIKHS are joined to such “stone buildings/mandirs/gurdwaras/...moortees, shiv lingams and diwali devis, holis, rakhrees, karva chauths fastings, teerath baths, keshadharee Brahmins who are pujarees in sikh form, High and Low CASTES... etc etc etc...” (even stone idols were installed in the DARBAR SAHIB now popularly called Harimandir... and these were forcibly REMOVED in 1920s...) and the way things are going NOW..they may stage a come back... we have Ramgarriah Gurdwaras, Namdev Gurdawras, Ravidass Gurdwras, Jatt gurdwaras... Chhimba Gurdwaras, kamboj Gurdwaras, etc etc all of which are signs of religious degradation maong us and falling back into the ritualism and empty karam kaands condemned in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji at every turn.

    ਭਗਤ ਜੀ ਦੇ ਸ਼ਬਦ ਦੇ ਸਹੀ ਅਰਥ ਕੀਤਿਆਂ ਤਾਂ ਉਸ ਦੀ ਫੂਹਵੀ ਹੀ ਵਲੇਟ੍ਹੀ ਜਾਣੀ ਸੀ, ਪਰ ਲੁੱਟ ਦਾ ਮਾਲ ਖਾਣ ਵਾਲੇ ਦਮਾਗੀ ਤੌਰ ਤੇ ਬਹੁਤ ਚਤੁਰ (ਆਤਮਕ ਤੌਰ ਤੇ ਓਨੇ ਹੀ ਮੁਰਦਾ) ਹੁੰਦੇ ਹਨ। ਉਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਨੇ ਇਸ ਸ਼ਬਦ ਦਾ ਅਰਥ ਕਰ ਦਿੱਤਾ ਕਿ ਜਦ ਨਾਮਦੇਉ ਜੀ ਨੂੰ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣਾਂ ਨੇ ਧੱਕੇ ਮਾਰ ਕੇ ਮੰਦਰ `ਚੋਂ ਬਾਹਰ ਕੱਢ ਦਿੱਤਾ ਤਾਂ ਭਗਤ ਜੀ ਮੰਦਰ ਦੇ ਪਿਛਵਾੜੇ ਬੈਠ ਕੇ ਭਗਤੀ ਕਰਨ ਲੱਗੇ। (ਮੰਦਰ ਨਾਲੋਂ, ਮੂਰਤੀਆਂ ਨਾਲੋਂ ਅਤੇ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣ ਨਾਲੋਂ ਨਾਤਾ ਨਹੀਂ ਤੋੜਿਆ) ਜਿਵੇਂ ਜਿਵੇਂ ਨਾਮਦੇਉ ਜੀ ਭਗਵਾਨ ਦੀ ਭਗਤੀ ਕਰਦੇ ਰਹੇ, ਦੇਹੁਰੇ ਦਾ, ਮੰਦਰ ਦਾ ਦੁਆਰ ਘੁੰਮ ਕੇ ਭਗਤ ਜੀ ਵੱਲ ਹੁੰਦਾ ਗਿਆ।

    ਯਾਨੀ ਭਗਤ ਜੀ ਦੀ ਭਗਤੀ ਆਸਰੇ, ਕਰਾਮਾਤ ਵਾਪਰ ਗਈ ਅਤੇ ਦੇਹੁਰੇ ਦਾ ਦਵਾਰ ਘੁੰਮ ਕੇ ਭਗਤ ਜੀ ਵੱਲ ਹੋ ਗਿਆ।

    ਫਿਰ
    ਮੰਦਰ ਵਿਚਲੀਆਂ ਮੂਰਤੀਆਂ ਵਿੱਚ ਭਗਵਾਨ ਨਹੀਂ ਤਾਂ ਹੋਰ ਕਿੱਥੇ ਹੈ? ਮੰਦਰ ਵਿਚਲੇ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣ, ਭਗਵਾਨ ਦੇ ਭਗਤ ਨਹੀਂ ਤਾਂ ਹੋਰ ਕੌਣ ਹਨ?

    ਮਜ਼ੇ
    ਦੀ ਗੱਲ ਤਾਂ ਇਹ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਕੇਸਾ ਧਾਰੀ ਪੁਜਾਰੀ (ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣ) ਜੋ ਗੁਰੁ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ ਨੂੰ, ਭਗਤ ਨਾਮਦੇਊ ਜੀ ਦੇ ਇਸ ਸ਼ਬਦ ਨੂੰ ਅਪਣਾ ਗੁਰੂ ਮੰਨਦੇ ਹਨ, ਉਸ ਦੀ ਸਿਖਿਆ ਅਨੁਸਾਰ ਕੰਮ ਕਰਨ ਦਾ ਵਿਖਾਵਾ ਕਰਦੇ ਹਨ। ਉਹ ਗੁਰਦਵਾਰਿਆਂ ਵਿਚੋਂ, ਜਿਥੋਂ ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ ਦੀ ਸਿਖਿਆ, ਭਗਤ ਨਾਮਦੇਉ ਵਲੋਂ ਆਤਮਸਾਤ, ਇਸ ਸਿਧਾਂਤ ਦਾ ਪਰਚਾਰ ਹੋਣਾ ਸੀ, ਓਥੋਂ ਹੀ ਇਸ ਸਿਧਾਂਤ ਨੂੰ ਦੇਖ ਕੇ ਵੀ ਅਣਡਿੱਠ ਕਰ ਕੇ, ਪਰਚਾਰਦੇ ਹਨ ਕਿ ਭਗਤੀ ਵਿੱਚ ਏਨੀ ਸ਼ਕਤੀ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਕਿਸੇ ਭਵਨ ਦੀ ਦਿਸ਼ਾ ਵੀ ਬਦਲ ਸਕਦੀ ਹੈ। ਜਦ ਕਿ ਗੁਰੁ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ, ਪੈਰ-ਪੈਰ ਤੇ ਹੋਕਾ ਦਿੰਦੇ ਹਨ ਕਿ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਵਲੋਂ ਬਣਾਏ ਨਿਯਮ ਕਾਨੂਨ, ਸਿਧਾਂਤ ਅਟੱਲ ਹਨ, ਉਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਕੋਈ ਬਦਲ ਨਹੀਂ ਸਕਦਾ, ਯਾਨੀ ਜਿਸ ਚੀਜ਼ ਦੀਆਂ ਜੜ੍ਹਾਂ ਧਰਤੀ ਵਿੱਚ ਹਨ, ਉਹ ਚਲ ਫਿਰ ਨਹੀਂ ਸਕਦੀ।

    ਜੇ ਪੁਜਾਰੀ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦੇ ਨਿਯਮ-ਕਾਨੂਨਾਂ ਦੀ ਗੱਲ ਸਿੱਖਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਸਮਝਾਉਣ ਤਾਂ ਸਿੱਖ, ਉਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਕਰਾਮਾਤਾਂ ਤੇ ਕਿਵੇਂ ਵਿਸ਼ਵਾਸ ਕਰਨ, ਜਿਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਆਸਰੇ ਪੁਜਾਰੀਆਂ ਨੇ ਭੋਲੇ-ਭਾਲੇ ਸਿੱਖਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਕੁਰਾਹੇ ਪਾ ਕੇ ਲੁੱਟਣਾ ਹੈ? ਪਤਾ ਨਹੀਂ ਸਿੱਖ ਕਦੋਂ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਦੇਇਸ ਸਿਧਾਂਤ ਨੂੰ ਸਮਝਣਗੇ?

    ਅੱਜ
    ਤਾਂ ੯੫ % ਤੋਂ ਵੱਧ ਸਿੱਖ, ਕਿਸੇ ਨਾ ਕਿਸੇ ਰੂਪ ਵਿੱਚ ਉਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਮੰਦਰਾਂ ਨਾਲ, ਉਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਮੂਰਤੀਆਂ ਨਾਲ, ਉਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣਾਂ ਨਾਲ ਜੁੜੇ ਹੋਏ ਹਨ। ਹੱਦ ਤਾਂ ਇਹ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਪਰਚਾਰਿਆ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਸਿੱਖੀ ਦਾ ਕੇਂਦਰ, ਦਰਬਾਰ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਵੀ, ਹਰੀ ਦਾ ਮੰਦਰ ਹੋ ਗਿਆ ਹੈ, ਓਥੋਂ ਦੇ ਪੁਜਾਰੀ ਵੀ ਕੇਸਾ ਧਾਰੀ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣ ਹਨ। ਕਿਸੇ ਵੇਲੇ ਇਸ ਥਾਂ ਮੂਰਤੀਆਂ ਵੀ ਸਥਾਪਤ ਹੋ ਗਈਆਂ ਸਨ। (ਜੋ ੧੯੨੦ ਵਿੱਚ ਹਟਾਈਆਂ ਗਈਆਂ) ਅੱਜ ਹਾਲਤ ਇਹ ਹੈ ਕਿ, ਜੇ ਉਸ ਥਾਂ ਦੁਬਾਰਾ ਮੂਰਤੀਆਂ ਸਥਾਪਤ ਹੋ ਜਾਣ ਤਾਂ, ਉਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਕੋਈ ਹਟਾਉਣ ਵਾਲਾ ਨਹੀਂ। ਪੁਜਾਰੀ ਲਾਣਾ (ਸੰਤ ਸਮਾਜ) ਇਹ ਤਾਂ ਬਰਦਾਸ਼ਤ ਕਰ ਲਵੇਗਾ ਕਿ ਸਿੱਖਾਂ ਵਿੱਚ ਖਾਨਾਜੰਗੀ ਹੋ ਜਾਵੇ। ਸਿੱਖੀ ਸਿਧਾਂਤਾਂ ਦਾ ਵਿਨਾਸ਼ ਹੋ ਜਾਵੇ, ਪਰ ਇਹ ਬਰਦਾਸ਼ਤ ਨਹੀਂ ਕਰੇਗਾ ਕਿ ਸਿਧਾਂਤ ਹੀਣ ਅੜੀ ਤੇ, ਉਸ ਦੀ ਮੁੱਛ ਨੀਵੀਂ ਹੋ ਜਾਵੇ। ਸਿੱਖ ਉਸ ਨੂੰ ਪੁਜਾਰੀ ਵਜੋਂ, (ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਸਿਧਾਂਤ ਅਨੁਸਾਰ) ਮਾਨਤਾ ਦੇਣੀ ਰੱਦ ਕਰ ਦੇਣ।

    ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ
    ਹੀ ਮਿਹਰ ਕਰੇ, ਸਿੱਖਾਂ ਨੂੰ, ਗੁਰੁ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ ਦਾ ਸਿਧਾਂਤ ਸਮਝਣ ਦੀ ਬੁੱਧੀ ਬਖਸ਼ੇ

    Punjabi Version By Amarjit Singh Chandee Ji
    and English Commentary by Jarnail Singh Gyani "Arshi"

    Note: All errors and omissions in the English section entirely mine. apologies in advance.

    (J S Gyani Arshi)
     
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  3. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    re: Did the Mandir ROTATE for Bhagat Namdev Ji ?

    This is so very kind of you, and I should not be surprised that you would make a gift of a great insight.
     
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  4. roopsidhu

    roopsidhu
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    Re: Did the Mandir ROTATE for Bhagat Namdev Ji ?

    SSA,
    Very wel written by Giani ji, brahmanical practices are taking over the real message of SGGS ji. Rotating of dehura or makka are being preached in brahmanical way. It has to be explained in the contaxt that Guru ji believed that god is everywhere, in all directions hence the directions never mattered for them, they felt the presence of god in all the directions. Very good topic touched by Giani ji.
    Roopsidhu
     
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  5. GURSIKHNAM

    GURSIKHNAM
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    Re: Did the Mandir ROTATE for Bhagat Namdev Ji ?

    There is lot of truth in what be being said Gyani Ji. Waheguru exists everywhere.
     
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  6. Ambarsaria

    Ambarsaria Canada
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    ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
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    Re: Did the Mandir ROTATE for Bhagat Namdev Ji ?

    Gyani Jarnail Singh ji very well put and thank you for the effort.

    I believe people need to be made aware that our gurus and gurbani really tried to help them do self realization for a God that is in everyone.


    • Our Gurus through physical interactions with people got them to,
      • Eyes - see others, other things and God everywhere
        • when one shakes their thinking in such a fundamental way the mind starts to see things in the newer reality
          • dependent upon how strongly the previous beliefs were held, people may see temporary visuals/vertigo within, dreams and a more permanent realization and awakening follows to last a life time
          • Strengths of such perceptions will vary from person to person and moment to moment
          • Examples: mandir rotation, mecca rotation, seeing blood coming out of food offered by Bhai Lalo versus milk coming out of Malik Bhago's offering, Guru Nanak Dev ji watering his farm many miles away by offering water at the banks of a river, etc.
      • Ears
        • Listening when tuned to truth and God through the Gurus and Gurbani
          • Listening versus hearing when fully realized would give people the ability and the mind starts to hear in a newer way
            • the crying of oppressed people without them speaking
            • hearing hankari voices without hankari's speaking
            • , and so on.
      • Taste
        • Your taste buds will start to feel a new sense on all of God's creation, the food chain, vegetables, meat, etc.
          • Eating in unison with nature versus the artificialities created through professed God's messengers or the like and mind starts to feel the good to eat for nourishment
          • The Gurus examples of sacredness of eating one meat versus another, plants and like having non-living aspects versus believed to be only animals, etc.
      • Smell
        • Your nose will appreciate God's creation as everywhere
          • Your mind starts to smell anew
          • "dhoop malyanlo pavan chavro kare saal banray phulant joti ...
            • You see the whole of God's creation as a never ending positive feast
      • Touch
        • Your hands and every nerve is released from inhibition, mal thoughts, and prejudiced conceptions
          • Your mind gets sensory experiences anew
          • There are no barriers left as you are,
            • Not prejudiced to touch so called lower cast as much as to touch anyone else
            • Your touch creates a natural exchange versus touch as though in-animate
            • Your touch is love, warmth, respect, help, encouragement and is indiscriminate
    • Once the physicals (for example five senses), the spiritual (kam, karodh, lobh, moh, hankar are in control) mind and mind's tune up to a new realization through the Gurus teachings and Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji is enabled in one then one has fulfilled the Gurus trust and Gurbani's teachings
    I believe we need to rise in Sikhism to a higher level of understanding (not addressed to anyone anywhere just a general sentiment on what I have witnessed or experienced from parchariks in general, babey's, sant/mahants, etc.) through all appropriate channels.

    Sikhism has challenges but has so much to offer at all levels of compliance and understanding.

    Regards,

    Sat Sri Akal.peacesignmundahug
     
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  7. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Re: Did the Mandir ROTATE for Bhagat Namdev Ji ?

    GURU NANAK JI did the exact same thing..He "Rotated MINDS" at hardwaar when he threw waters to the WEST (towards Punjab) while everyone else was throwing it to the EAST (SUN). They gathered around this mad man..and asked him..WHAT in heavens name are you doing ? OH..I ma watering my fields in PUNJAB..he replied. Are YOU CRAZY?? they said..how cna water form hardwaar reach Punjab more than 1000 miles away ?? IS that so...Then pray tell ME..HOW YOUR WATER CAN REACH THE SUN..more than millions of miles away ?? A LOT of MINDS must have ROTATED that DAY !! ( but then agian perhaps our Tall Tale manufacturers would have preferred IF Guru nanak ji had made the GANGA BEGIN FLOWING BACKWARDS !!!.....??? Unfortunatley Guur ji did no such thing..simply becasue WATER FLOWS DOWNWARDS..its Natural LAW..and similarly Mandirs do not rotate unless built on rotating platforms !!):)
     
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  8. japjisahib04

    japjisahib04 Kuwait
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    Re: Did the Mandir ROTATE for Bhagat Namdev Ji ?

    Let us pledge to start rotating our mind from today. As Guru Sahib tells us, 'ਪਾਂਚ ਤਤ ਕੋ ਤਨੁ ਰਚਿਓ ਜਾਨਹੁ ਚਤੁਰ ਸੁਜਾਨ ਜਿਹ ਤੇ ਉਪਜਿਓ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਲੀਨ ਤਾਹਿ ਮੈ ਮਾਨੁ ੧੧' let us build a body of supreme virtues then only we will pay back our tribute. SGGS 1427.
    Best regards
    Sahni Mohinder
     
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  9. gurbanicd

    gurbanicd
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    Re: Did the Mandir ROTATE for Bhagat Namdev Ji ?

    Dear g
    Is it that important to know that mandir revolved or not?

    Earth is rotating, sun is rotating, universe is rotating ......

    The Gurbani revolves round NAAM bhagti.

    The other karmkand done without keeping lord's love and qualities in mind are all useless.It is the gurparsad and seeker's (jigyasu) effort to find out the truth.

    Actually there is no difference and change between the early people doing useless "karmkand" and many followers of Sikhism indulging in USELESS RITUALS today.

    Vart nem,moorti pooja jaat kul,kohli bakshi sodhi dhodhi kalra etc American, Indian, black,white anything used for discrimination are simply unacceptable to Guruji.

    Manas ki jaat sab eke........
    ek pita ekas ke ham baarik.................


    ] jyvfu Awip qyvf qyrI dwiq ] ijin idnu kir kY kIqI rwiq ] Ksmu ivswrih qy kmjwiq ] nwnk nwvY bwJu snwiq ]4]2] {pMnw 349}

    *********************************************


    ikn hI kihAw mY kulih vifAweI ] ikn hI kihAw bwh bhu BweI ] koeI khY mY Dnih pswrw ] moih dIn hir hir AwDwrw ]4] ikn hI GUGr inriq krweI ] ikn hU vrq nym mwlw pweI ] ikn hI iqlku gopI cMdn lwieAw ] moih dIn hir hir hir iDAwieAw ]5] ikn hI isD bhu cytk lwey ] ikn hI ByK bhu Qwt bnwey ] ikn hI qMq mMq bhu Kyvw ] moih dIn hir hir hir syvw ]6] {pMnw 913}
    koeI cquru khwvY pMifq ] ko Ktu krm sihq isau mMifq ] koeI krY Awcwr su krxI ] moih dIn hir hir hir srxI ]7] sgly krm Drm jug soDy ] ibnu nwvY iehu mnu n pRboDy ] khu nwnk jau swD sMgu pwieAw ] bUJI iqRsnw mhw sIqlwieAw ]8]1] {pMnw 913}


    *************************
    mÚ 1 ] piV pusqk sMiDAw bwdM ] isl pUjis bgul smwDM ] muiK JUT ibBUKx swrM ] qRYpwl iqhwl ibcwrM ] gil mwlw iqlku illwtM ] duie DoqI bsqR kpwtM ] jy jwxis bRhmM krmM ] siB Pokt inscau krmM ] khu nwnk inhcau iDAwvY ] ivxu siqgur vwt n pwvY ]2] {pMnw 470}


    rwmklI mhlw 5 ] iesu pwnI qy ijin qU GirAw ] mwtI kw ly dyhurw kirAw ] aukiq joiq lY suriq prIiKAw ] mwq grB mih ijin qU rwiKAw ]1] rwKnhwru smHwir jnw ] sgly Coif bIcwr mnw ]1] rhwau


    ***********************************************

    mÚ 1 ] piV pusqk sMiDAw bwdM ] isl pUjis bgul smwDM ] muiK JUT ibBUKx swrM ] qRYpwl iqhwl ibcwrM ] gil mwlw iqlku illwtM ] duie DoqI bsqR kpwtM ] jy jwxis bRhmM krmM ] siB Pokt inscau krmM ]khu nwnk inhcau iDAwvY ] ivxu siqgur vwt n pwvY ]2] {pMnw 470}


    bhulan chukan di khima
     
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    #8 gurbanicd, Jan 20, 2011
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2011
  10. Aulakh

    Aulakh
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    Re: Did the Mandir ROTATE for Bhagat Namdev Ji ?

    Dear SPN readers Gurfateh
    Spirtuality is the area of love and one can not enter this area with doubts.Shardha and Shanka can not exist together.Only a realised person can see God every where if any one else says that that is Pustak Ki Pekhi and not Akhi Dekhi .It is good to discuss spirtual things because this is the only way to begin with.Gurbani contains many references which a scientific mind can not appreciate or understand.
    As far as the state of Mandir is concerned ,those who have visited the place say that that is the only temple in the area with its entrance in opposite to all other temples in the area.
    Humbly
    Gian Singh Aulakh
     
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  11. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Re: Did the Mandir ROTATE for Bhagat Namdev Ji ?

    I ma Glad that each poster has brought out the most imporatnt point I am trying to put across..that its the GURBANI..the Divine Message of Guru Sahib that we must read/follow/practise..and change our lives..ROTATE OURSELVES 360 degrees away from MAYA towards HIM. The TIMES indeed are achanging...i have hope we can RECOVER the lost glory of our Sikhism..if we continue along this path of parrho sunno gavoh gurbani and adopting the teachings to our daily lives.
    Congrats and THANKS to all who provided input. Vichar is the way forward..

    Japjisahib04 Ji..welcome back..its been a long time..Hope all is well with you and family jios.
     
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  12. passingby

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    Re: Did the Mandir ROTATE for Bhagat Namdev Ji ?

    Before I add my two cents, an humble request:
    # Please use bold letters instead of capitals. In the internet world capitals stand for shouting voice.
    # Please do not use double !! or ??

    Now my two cents:
    First off there is no mention of women in this shabad.
    Secondly the main line of controversy is
    "ਭਗਤ ਜਨਾਂ ਕਉ ਦੇਹੁਰਾ ਫਿਰੈ"
    Giani ji has interpreted this to mean that Bhagat ji turned away from dehra and walked away with realization that God is not in idols but everywhere.

    I beg to differ. Grammatically speaking the word 'ਕਉ' is a postposition. The noun in plural "ਭਗਤ ਜਨਾਂ" is in Sampardaan Karak. Let me explain a bit here for those who are not in touch with grammer lessons read ages ago in high school.


    Sumpurdaan means to give, to donate. A noun or a pronoun is said to be in Sumpurdaan Kaaruk when the action of the sentence is done 'for' it or 'to' it. The postpositions used for this are:

    ਨੂੰ - to

    ਲਈ - for

    ਵਾਸਤੇ - for

    ਹਿੱਤ - for, towards this end
    Lets see an example sentence.


    ਪਿਤਾ ਨੇ ਪੁੱਤਰ ਨੂੰ ਪੰਜ ਰੁਪਏ ਦਿੱਤੇ
    The noun ਪੁੱਤਰ is in Sampardaan karak because the action ਦੇਣਾ(ਦਿੱਤੇ) is being done for it.


    In our line "ਭਗਤ ਜਨਾਂ ਕਉ ਦੇਹੁਰਾ ਫਿਰੈ" the noun ਭਗਤ ਜਨ (which is plural just to mention) is in Sampardaan kaarak and the postposition ਕਉ is being used to make the case. The word ਕਉ means for. The action/verb performed is ਫਿਰੈ. The ਦੇਹਰਾ noun is the one one which the action is performed and the action is done for the noun ਭਗਤ ਜਨਾ.

    Now we come to the next step. What is the meaning of the word ਫਿਰੈ? This word has been used in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji with 3 meaning.


    The first meaning is 'to roam around', 'to walk about'. In our everyday Punjabi we often used this meaning as well as the word, eg 'ਤੂੰ ਕਿਥੇ ਫਿਰਦਾ ਰਹਿੰਦਾ ਹੈਂ?' Here are some Gurbani lines in which this sense has been conveyed:


    ਬਹੁ ਜੋਨੀ ਭਉਦਾ ਫਿਰੈ ਜਿਉ ਸੁੰਞੈਂ ਘਰਿ ਕਾਉ ॥ (
    Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, page 30) ਨਉ ਖੰਡ ਪ੍ਰਿਥਮੀ ਫਿਰੈ ਚਿਰੁ ਜੀਵੈ ॥(Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, pg 265. sukhmani Sahib)
    ਲਿੰਉ ਲਿੰਉ ਕਰਤ ਫਿਰੈ ਸਭੁ ਲੋਗੁ ॥(Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, pg 342)

    The second meaning is that of ' to turn Back', 'to not be effective or implemented'

    ਧੁਰਿ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਪਰਵਾਣਾ ਫਿਰੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਗੁਰੁ ਜਾਇ ਹਰਿ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਪਾਸਿ ਜੀਉ ॥੩॥(Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, pg 923)
    The order from dhur (court of Akal Purakh) cannot be turned back, it cannot be not implemented. Guru shall now go to Akal Purakh as per His order.

    ਚੀਰੀ ਜਾ ਕੀ ਨਾ ਫਿਰੈ ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਸੋ ਪਰਵਾਣੁ ॥(Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, pg 1239)

    That Master is acceptable whose cheeri (Order) is never turned back or not implemented.


    The third meaning is that of 'to turn around in circle'.


    ਰਥੁ ਫਿਰੈ ਛਾਇਆ ਧਨ ਤਾਕੈ ਟੀਡੁ ਲਵੈ ਮੰਝਿ ਬਾਰੇ ॥ (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, pg 1108)
    The rath of sun (which always goes in circles) moves in circle, the poor body takes shelter in shade, even the insect known as 'tidda' or 'beend' makes noises outside. Meaning whole nature is scorching under the hot sun.


    ਜਉ ਗੁਰਦੇਉ ਦੇਹੁਰਾ ਫਿਰੈ(Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, pg 1166)
    If Guru is there to protect and help you, even the dehra moves/turns around.


    Lets also take a look at a line from Bhai Gurdas:


    ਟੰਗੋ ਪਕੜ ਘਸੀਟਿਆ, ਫਿਰਿਆ ਮਕਾ ਕਲਾ ਦਿਖਾਰੀ (1-32-7)
    Guru Nanak was dragged around by his feet. Mecca turned around in the same direction and thus Akal Purakh showed his Kalaa.


    The myth about Mecca shifting its place is not only found in Sikh circles. Bhai Vir Singh has written that it has been said the Mecca shifted in other cases too eg in case of great lady sufi saint Rabia.


    Therefore I believe that literal meaning of our controversial line "ਭਗਤ ਜਨਾਂ ਕਉ ਦੇਹੁਰਾ ਫਿਰੈ" is that Dehra turned around.


    Now further.

    I do not believe that dehra actually physically turned around. When I was young I read Sri Ramakrishna Paramhansa's biography. I also read 'Katha Amrit' or 'Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna' which is a compilation of diary records of Sri Mahedranath about his meetings with Sri Ramakrishna. I personally believe that Sri Mahendranath was one of those few bhaktas who attained a state of complete egolessness. I take his writing to be very authentic and reliable. In these writings it has been recorded that Sri Ramakrishna used to often go into meditative trance. His whole mind used to get filled with great love and fervour for God. He also used to see vision of Goddess Kali in these states.
    Of course it goes without saying that Kali is not God himself. It is a representation. Even followers of Sri Ramakrishna accept this.
    Sikh philosophy accepts that everything is Akal Purakh. All phenomenon and noumenon are Akal Purakh. Not simple created by Akal Purakh. They are Akal Purakh in the ultimate sense.



    ਜਲ ਤਰੰਗ ਅਰੁ ਫੇਨ ਬੁਦਬੁਦਾ ਜਲ ਤੇ ਭਿੰਨ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥

    ਇਹੁ ਪਰਪੰਚੁ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਕੀ ਲੀਲਾ ਬਿਚਰਤ ਆਨ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥
    Of course at the relative plane there are things which are good and bad and all the in-between. There are individual and separate phenomenon too at relative plane, that is commonsensical thing. Although Akal Purakh manifests in a lion too but I would not go and play with it.


    Based on this thought I believe that all authentic spiritual experiences - not the fraud ones or the ones which are result of mental delusions or borne out of blind superstitions- of the saints of all religions are spiritual manifestations of Akal Purakh. These manifestations occur under divine order and under divine scheme of things and are highly personal to the the person having these with respect to his conditioning, his culture, his religion, his path etc. In this sense they are relative in importance and interpretation. They cannot be taken to be absolute in nature.


    I feel that dehra of bhagat ji actually turned, but it turned in his spiritual world, in his vision and his personal interactiion with Akal Purakh. God works in mysterious ways they say. And of course he would treat his bhagats in a special manner. I do not believe that dehra turned physically. It turned at the spiritual level. Akal Purakh gave a divine darshan to his bhagat and this is what he terms as dehra turning.


    I believe this is the same thing in case of Mecca turning too. Mecca did turn but not physically. The people who were involved in the incident over there, namely a person named Jeevan who kicked Guru Nanak, saw a vision, a divine vision. Such a vision cannot be put in words. We can only point to it in a limited way. But this vision convinced Jeevan that Mecca is everywhere, Allah is all prevading.

    This is my belief and understanding.
     
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  13. prakash.s.bagga

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    Re: Did the Mandir ROTATE for Bhagat Namdev Ji ?

    GIYANI JARNAIL SINGH Ji,
    Excellent,Excellent,Excellent....Many congratulations for presenting such a nice exposition of an incidence with clear Gurmati view
    There are several Hindu mythological references in SGGS These references are to enableus to know the actual KARTA behind these incidences.These references strenthen our belief in OMNIPOTENT and OMNIPRESENT GURU JOTi only.
    The contents of your last para are of equal concern.Let us peep into ourselves how we can get rid of false systems prevailing around us I feel only Gurmati way of Gurbaani interpretation can help us to come out of ignorance and we purely attach ourself with GURU-GUR only
    Once again appreciating your contribution.

    Prakash.S.bagga.
     
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  14. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Re: Did the Mandir ROTATE for Bhagat Namdev Ji ?

    Prof Sahib Singh nJi alos gives this explanation. He also put in a note explaining that Bhagat Namdev Ji was a resident of Pandarpur and he was of course also known to be a shudra low caste so wasnt welcome in the Mandir and so this Visit where he was thrown out would have been a ONE OFF Visit in the heat of the moment called MAUJ of Bhagtee.
    So he wasnt a regular visitor - either at the back or the front.
    I heard a Katha Gyaan Da Sagar on ETC Punjabi of Gyani maskeen ji..and he was saying the Mandir TURNED PHYSICALLY and can be seen standing in Pandarpur Facing the WRONG WAY !! This is why I brought this up.
    Can somebody confirm what Maskeen Ji and the other proponenets of the Mandir rotating are saying...is the Mandir turned ?? and also show proof that it originally faced another direction ...

    I Thank Passingby for a well written note. Much appreciated Jios. Will reply if anything needs to be replied to.
    Regards
    Jarnail Singh:)
     
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  15. prakash.s.bagga

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    Re: Did the Mandir ROTATE for Bhagat Namdev Ji ?

    DID The Mandir ROTATE for BHAGAT NAMDEV Ji,

    From the Gramatical consideration of the meaning of the SHABAD it is obvius that There is no physical TURN ROUND of DEHURA.This shabad makes clear that as BHAGAT NAMDEV Ji started the singing words of praise,several people present at that time came near to NAM DEV Ji instead going inside the temple.This could be the reference meaning for BHAGAT JANAA KOu DEHURA FIRAE.

    Prakash.S.Bagga
     
  16. a.mother

    a.mother Canada
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    Re: Did the Mandir ROTATE for Bhagat Namdev Ji ?


    Giyaniji Thank you very much. "Bhagat jna di paij rakhda ayea" whenever bhagat jann need him he is always there. We are not brahmgyanis but I beleive in these things.Whenever some one love him beyond the limits he can do what we never imagine.Maskeen ji had AVSTHA .This only matter of what we can see or what some one else can see it .May be I can't see what anther person can see. Whenever somebody is colored in HIS color HE takecares of them.
     
  17. prakash.s.bagga

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    Re: Did the Mandir ROTATE for Bhagat Namdev Ji ?

    PASSINGBY Ji,
    Pl accept my Divine greetings,

    I am greatly impressed by your gramatical views of the Shabad.This is the first time I have come axcross person with such clarity of grammer.
    I hope to interact more with your goodself.
    With best wishes
    Prakash.s.bagga
     
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  18. passingby

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    Re: Did the Mandir ROTATE for Bhagat Namdev Ji ?

    Prakash S. Bagga ji,
    Please Sir, I have hardly said anything deserving your praise. I have a little interest in grammer thats all.
    Thank you for your words ji.
     
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  19. onspjo

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    Re: Did the Mandir ROTATE for Bhagat Namdev Ji ?

    Great posts by GJS ji and passingby. Thanks GJS ji for starting it and making a very valid point and thanks passingby for explaining it using grammer and taking examples.
    Even if you don't listen to anyone manipulating words and making up stories to misguide people, a person with limited understanding, when reading bani, would interpret it as 'Dehura rotated'. Passingby ji your post made a great read that explains that dehura rotated in spiritual experience/for that person.
    GJS ji, I do want to point out something though- earthquakes are very natural happenings. It may not make something rotate but it does move earth.
     
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  20. japjisahib04

    japjisahib04 Kuwait
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    Re: Did the Mandir ROTATE for Bhagat Namdev Ji ?

    S. Aulakh Ji
    I have visited Panja Sahib in Pakistan. I see a Panja engraved there. Is it the Panja of Guru Nanak. No it cannot be.
    Best regards
    Sahni Mohinder
     
  21. Ambarsaria

    Ambarsaria Canada
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    Re: Did the Mandir ROTATE for Bhagat Namdev Ji ?

    japjisahib04 thank you for your post.

    We also need to see the difference between an awakened soul (Sri Nam Dev ji) in the context of this post. Whereas a common follower of the pandit or Brahmin in the mandir would dare not speak anything disparaging equally will be blinded from seeing the reality. So Nam Dev ji saw that sitting behind the mandir, he was actually sitting at the correct placement of where the front door should have been. Recognizing and seeing things without facade or assumptions or presumptions is a key identifier for enlightened souls. No wonder the Gurus saw it fitting to include his contributions in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji.

    Sat Sri Akal.
     
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