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Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by Nirmaljot Baidwan, Oct 30, 2011.

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  1. Nirmaljot Baidwan

    Nirmaljot Baidwan India
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    Hello Everyone,

    As mentioned in SGGS , True Guru(SAT GURU) is of prime importance. To cross the Ocean of maya, we need the SHIP of NAAM and the sailor of that ship is SAT GURU or the true GURU.

    Now What comes to my mind is that NAAM cannot be bound to a particular language or a particular religion, say Sikhism . If that was so then only Sikhs would have the privilege of sailing the ocean with the help of the ship of NAAM. I think NAAM cannot be bound to any written language, if it could be , it won't be true NAAM because if it belongs to a written language then Its scope is very limited because people who don't understand or cant read that particular language will be deprived of the NAAM.

    The only point i want to make here is that NAAM cannot be found in a holy scripture, although the scripture can give us pointers towards what NAAM is. But by reciting some Shabads or Hymns one Cannot attain What One is Born to Attain or What this Human life is meant for.

    The NAAM must be meant for everyone because when Guru Sahib composed the GURBANI they addressed the human race as a whole, They did not address any particular group of people, so it must be something whose scope is global and its scope cannot be narrowed. It must be beyond writing or speaking.

    Many people think that What is written in SGGS is NAAM but i dont think its true. Bhagat Kabir's poetry has description of NAAM, Bhagat Beni Ji's bani has description of NAAM , Other bhagats also mention about NAAM and these shabads are present in SGGS , but they did not find it from SGGS because of the fact that at the time they composed those phrases SGGS was not composed.
    Here i mention SGGS because SGGS uses NAAM word more than any other holy scripture. Rather i'd say NAAM is used only in SGGS , cz i dont hav any knowledge about other scriptures and they seldom use it or they don't use it at all.

    But the matter of the fact is that NAAM is something which is out of the scope of WRITING Or SPEAKING.swordfight
     
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  3. Ambarsaria

    Ambarsaria Canada
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    Veer Nirmaljot Baidwan ji thanks for your post. I agree with you that so called literal "naam" is of no consequence.

    Way I see "naam" is an understanding of one creator and as much of it as possible. One will never be 100% as the creator is defined in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as being infinite. Same way "naam" or for me developing understanding is a continuous exercise throughout our lives. Even more important than finding more of "naam" is to live with what one has found or understood.

    Just some thoughts.

    Sat Sri Akal.
     
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  4. Scarlet Pimpernel

    Scarlet Pimpernel
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    Veera I recall the Guru being described as a vessel but don't recall him being referred to as a sailor.

    That Naam you seek is the current/wind that a clean-mann creates when it dwells on Gods True Word,whatever vessel you ride in you still need to take account of the current/wind or else you are just forcing your will (going against the current/wind.)

    I know this does not explain where is Naam or where was it first ,but also if you ask where is current or wind it's not in one place and also in a few places at once.
     
  5. Nirmaljot Baidwan

    Nirmaljot Baidwan India
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    Scarlet Pimpernel
    According to what is mentioned in SGGS The Naam cannot be created or destroyed so its not that it is created by a clean-mann but yes it resides in clean mann. Naam is Not easy to obtain.

    At many places in SGGS its mentioned that Naam is obtained by His Grace.

    What is God's True Word???
    Where can the True Word be Found???

    These are the questions left un-answered. Time for introspection.winkingmunda
     
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  6. Ambarsaria

    Ambarsaria Canada
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    Nirmaljot Baidwan ji perhaps let us help each other and wonder as follows,
    Before we look for something which is pretty much unknown, if we call it something we have to be knowing, in your posts so called "true word". In a way you have given "naam" that you describe as futile a new name in "true word". Are we denying and accepting at the same time.

    Perhaps worthwhile to define what our end objective is,

    • a rapture moment of "I found it"
    • an actual word(s) that you are looking for
    • a gradual understanding development of what is
    • or perhaps none of the above
    Just some thoughts.

    Please elaborate.

    Sat Sri Akal.
     
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  7. Scarlet Pimpernel

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    Veer ji Just my personal view is that Naam is linked to the Truth,as in when someone says something true to you ,it rings true within you ,so you can say it was always with you,you just needed to realise it. Holy words are not superflous to the task they are essential because the Word plus Mann creates Naam, it's like a chemical reaction in the brain or spiritual reaction in the Soul,it can be gradual or instant ,but to understand we have to be lucky enough.

    Time for retrospection:singhbhangra:
     
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    #6 Scarlet Pimpernel, Oct 31, 2011
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  8. Nirmaljot Baidwan

    Nirmaljot Baidwan India
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    Ambarsaria Ji
    peacesign
     
  9. Scarlet Pimpernel

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    Nirmal Veera ,Ambarsaria ji was asking both of us those questions,Let us Contemplate... what is word before you speak it and write it,when I say create, I mean create the conditions for it ,it manifests itself where there is the right grace.


    Veera please don't forget to answer outside the quote ,I used to do it like you and was told off by the Cardinal ,as it is hard to distinguish,Peace and Love
     
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    #8 Scarlet Pimpernel, Oct 31, 2011
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  10. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    I am probably going to make myself unpopular with this one but here goes


    To my mind Naam is a state of mind where you are connected with Creator. I would imagine it requires purity, focus, and a heartfelt desire to reflect the essence of Creator that resides within.

    At this stage in my sikhi life, I refuse to have anything to do with it, the realisation of Naam through sewa and practical and pragmatic use of Gurbani is the road that I am taking, I do believe that Naam can be attained through this, I think the road is very individual, sewa, simran, a combination of the two, there are many ways to Naam, through many religions.

    If we apply ourselves to the spirit of sikhi in our everyday lives, We start to do things not for fear, or self pleasure, but because they are simply the correct things to do, a bit like staying below the legal driving limit, not because we fear being caught by the traffic police, or so we can pat ourselves on the back and watch all the cars overtaking us and feel smug, no, we know we have reached Naam in this particular scenario when we stay below the speed limit for no other reason than it is the right decision, and our heart agrees with it.

    For the record, I refuse to carry out simran as I have a fear that I will renounce the world if I did, I would get addicted to it, I would stop living, and stop interacting with Creation, I would simply immerse myself in this state and view everything else as Maya. However Sikhi states that we are householders as well as saints, so the only way in which I can find that balance is through the road I have chosen
     
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  11. Scarlet Pimpernel

    Scarlet Pimpernel
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    Veera maybe religion is that authority which sets the speed limits.
     
  12. Scarlet Pimpernel

    Scarlet Pimpernel
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    Veera maybe Naam is that sense authority which sets the moral speed limits.
     
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  13. Ambarsaria

    Ambarsaria Canada
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    Perhaps we hit on the answer here indirectly. Let us postulate that there were no speed limits and we were driving in such a land (India say lol). How would each one of us drive,

    • SP ji ..... like a maniac (no offense veer just hypothesis) mundahug
    • HH ji ..... like a moderately cautious person watching for dogs and ferrets mundahug
    • Ambarsaria ..... slowest most of the time (I have been caught driving fast with all kind of Police traps), because that is how he is :sippingcoffeemunda:
    So why the difference? Is it "naam", inner self, "soul", fear of an accident, fear of hurting someone else, can it be completely described for anyone? peacesign

    Sat Sri Akal.
     
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