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Criteria: When She Deserves to be Raped

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by spnadmin, Dec 21, 2012.

  1. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    From the Delhi police: Why women deserve to be raped
    by Lakshmi Chaudhry

    http://www.firstpost.com/living/fro...ons-why-women-deserve-to-be-raped-269957.html

    I realised that according to stringent criteria of the Delhi Police, almost all women deserve to be raped.

    One of the most depressing aspects of writing about the recent string of rape cases are the responses these kinds of stories inevitably evoke. The Internet trolls come out in swarms to condemn the victim: for being out late at night, for being divorced, talking to strangers, drinking, dressing “provocatively”, and, the worst, for making it all up. Who are these people, I’d wonder, who genuinely believe that a woman would deliberately provoke sexual assault, and failing that, pretend she’d been raped – and go public with it.

    Because, really, being a rape victim in India is so much fun. First, you’re humiliated by the cops, then your personal life is put on trial by the media. After a couple of years being ground down by the judicial process, you get your moment in court where you’re expected to recount every detail – and I mean, every detail – in open court. All this only to find that in the great majority of cases, it’s all been for naught because the original investigation was shoddy and flawed. Your assailants go scot-free while you are tarnished for life as “damaged goods” in our enlightened society.

    Can any sane, right-thinking person really, really believe that most women deliberately incite rape or invent rape charges?

    As it turns out, the online creeps are in good company – of the Delhi-NCR police. A Tehelka sting aimed at 23 police stations across the NCR reveals a level of misogyny that is not unexpected, but is shocking nevertheless. [Do check out the testimonies of these police officers in detail here. The Tehelka expose is unpleasant but required reading]

    Now, I could skewer these attitudes as absurd, regressive, and just plain wrong. But having waded through the testimonies of these men – who are Station House Officers, not the average havaldar – I was left shaking with rage and fear. I realised that according to stringent criteria of the Delhi Police, almost all women deserve to be raped. And here’s why:

    Who are these people, I'd wonder, who genuinely believe that a woman would deliberately provoke sexual assault. Reuters

    One, she is not in a salwar kameez or sari, at all times

    Most urban professional women wear a lot of skirts, jeans, blouses, and dresses. And they usually carefully calibrate what they wear according to where they will be: out on the street or at an upmarket bar/restaurant. But all this effort is pointless because as Satbir Singh, Additional SHO of Sector 31 Police Station, Faridabad, puts it: “Ladkiya jo hai unko yahan tak yahan tak (he gestures to mean that women should cover their entire body, then carries on speaking)… Skirt pehenti hai. Blouse dalti hai; poora nahi dalti hai. Dupatta nahi dalti. Apne aapko dikhawa karti hai. Baccha uske taraf akarshit hota hai.” (Girls should be covered from here to here… They wear skirts, blouses, that don’t cover them fully. Don’t wear a dupatta. They display themselves. A kid will naturally be attracted to her.)

    Sub-Inspector Arjun Singh, SHO of Surajpur Police Station, Greater Noida, clarifies the position further: “She is dressed in a manner that people get attracted to her. In fact, she wants them to do something to her.”

    In other words, unless a woman is fully covered from head to toe – at all times – she wants men to rape her.

    Two, if a woman is in a sexual relationship with one man, then she deserves to be raped by him and all his friends. Dharamveer Singh, Additional SHO at Indirapuram Police Station in Ghaziabad, tells Tehelka: “It’s very rare that a girl is forcefully picked up by 10 boys. A girl who gets into a car with boys is never innocent. If she does, she definitely has a relationship with at least one of them.”

    Three, she keeps the company of drunk men. Is it bad judgement to drink with strangers in India? Yes. And many of us are far too cautious to slam back the vodka unless we are amongst good friends. But who cares since our men in uniform seem to think that alcohol and opportunity is sufficient – and just – cause for rape:

    Roop Lal of Sector 40, Gurgaon, sought to find a rationale to the occurrence of gang-rape: “Jaise hum log baithe hai, zyaada daaru pee li. Chalte peeli. Behnchodh, phekh saala, phir to aise hi hoga. Raat bhar rakh li. Uska jawab kya degi wo apne gharwalon ko, ki jo ek ghante ke liye keh kar gayi hai, aur poori night main kahan gayi thi. To maa-baap to poochenge, bhai bhi poochega. Jinka samaaj hai woh to poochte hai (Say we are sitting and had one drink too many while on the move… it’s obvious that it’ll happen. Keep her for the entire night. What will she tell her parents? She was supposed to be away for an hour and has ended up being out the entire night. Parents will question, so will her brother. Society will ask questions.”)

    So when a man drinks, he turns into a sex-crazed animal ready to rape the nearest woman. When a woman drinks, she is a {censored word, do not repeat.} looking to be raped. Ergo, women should not drink, nor should she place herself anywhere in the vicinity of men who do. (A rule that includes being in a bar late at night) And even if one of the men happens to be your boyfriend, it is no cause to let your guard down because: See reason #2.

    Four, a girl deserves to be raped because her mother is a “{censored word, do not repeat.}.” When all else fails, blame the mom. That seems to be the reasoning of the investigating officer in the Noida gang rape case which involved a Class X student. Here’s Ram Malik’s justification for the rape of a minor: “The girl’s mother is divorced. She’s living with another man from the Yadav community. She’s 48 whereas the man is 28. It’s inevitable the two daughters will be wayward, isn’t it?”

    Five, a woman deserves to be raped because she belongs to the upper class – or the lower class. Upper class women don’t know how to behave or dress modestly, which invites trouble. They are also either high class hookers, or alcohol and drug-addicted floozies. Their lower class peers, however, are just looking to make a quick buck.

    In fact, according to 17 of the 30 policemen interviewed by Tehelka that “real” rape cases are rare: “There are cases but 70 percent involve consensual sex. Only if someone sees, or the money is denied, it gets turned into rape”

    Sub-Inspector Manoj Rawat of Noida’s Sector 24 Police Station is far more skeptical: “Everything in NCR happens with mutual understanding. My personal view is that there are one or two percent rape cases in NCR.”

    And six, a woman deserves to be raped because she reported the rape. The most astounding revelation in the Tehelka expose is this: most rape complaints are false, motivated by either vindictiveness or monetary gain. It’s an excellent example of circular logic:

    Tehelka asked Yogender Singh Tomar, Additional SHO, Sector 39, Noida, if it was easy for a rape victim to approach the police. His answer left us shocked: “Aasaan nahi hota uske liye. Bezzati se sabhi darti hai. Akhbaar baazi se bhi darti hai. Asliyat main wahin aati hai jo dhande main lipt hoti hai (It’s never easy for the victim. Everyone is scared of humiliation. Everyone’s wary of media and society. In reality, the ones who complain are only those who have turned rape into a business).”

    In other words, if you’re “really” raped, you would never complain. If you complain, you were not “really” raped.

    So here’s the bottomline, ladies and gentleman. If we were to apply the this insane litmus test to all the women we know – friends, family members, distant relatives, colleagues, maids, or acquaintances – none of us would make the grade. According to the Delhi police, we all deserve to be raped.

    [The smattering of quotes in this story don't do full justice to the original Tehelka story which deserves to be read in its entirety. I highly recommend you do so, if only to read these testimonies in Hindi to get the flavour of the language used by the cops.]
     
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  3. Ambarsaria

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    spnadmin ji thanks for the article.

    Unfortunately one has to look at the basic makeup of Indian society. There are three or four key elements.

    1. Haves and Have Nots
      • If you have power or approach you will be listened to otherwise it is futile
      • Generally the Indian patriarch system is still strongly embedded irrespective of religion, the females have little voice
    2. Sexual Equality
      • There is little existing under the surface at functional level
      • The article does not reveal anything to an Indian male or female
      • Inequality is well understood and practiced; unless of course it is your own daughter or female relative
      • For other females the system will sandbag you per point 1 above
    3. Longer Term Role of Underlying Religious Doctrines
      • It is incredibly unfortunate for females in India in such matters
      • The religions of Hinduism and Islam as practiced in India don't have much of a place of justice or equality for females. Lip service yes, but little for the common female Indian in the category of functionally have-nots.
    The above are issues much deeper and insidious and articles and such would have minimal impact. Let us remember even the less controversial Anna Hazzare movement which so neatly fizzled out. It can be likened to "throwing a dynamite stick in a pool full of Jello. There is temporary wiggling and jiggling, little longer term happens"

    Of course I wish the most positive for all but I have little faith for the foreseeable future for females so impacted in India.

    Regards. :banghead:

    PS: A story told by my friend few years ago. There is a village in Gujrat where all younger females are offered to the local Hindu priest to have sex and lose their virginity so they are purified.

    The brain washing and ignorance overall is very deep rooted if not actively encouraged. Watch the Indian TV shows and infomercials where Telemarketing of Gemstones, lucky charms is fleecing the most vulnerable in India out of billions. Such purveyors would be beheaded in Saudi Arabia. The foundation for such antics is the predominant belief system in India which our Guru ji's absolutely and logically rejected as strongly as they could. Unfortunately this is getting lost even in the heartland of Sikhism in Punjab including by Sikhs.
     
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    #2 Ambarsaria, Dec 21, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2012
  4. Parma

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    Can not imagine them saying that if one of their own family members became a victim of the crime. There should be a movement for the victims really as these criminals will never admit to their own crimes and problems! If you give the weak the strength to deal with their own problems then problems will lessen! That would need a government funded developement or organisation that owes no alligence to the parties and only to the enforcement of the law. Only India is too corrupt to have such an independant body and organisation that would deal with this crime and look to the law independantly regardless. If something was set up though it could become the holy grail in setting up a less corrupt system and society in India more in tune with western societies although their is corruption in the west a voice is still heard here however small. In the east their are so big voices every voice thinks they are big and they become lost a shame really who knows how great that country could really become if people listened. Unless the Indian country is not destined for greatness really and only this corruption fuelled view on the world. God built so many religions there non of them made any sense to the ones that live there, a shame. Listen to your masters, listen to the men of god of who in india their is so many yet they effect so little. A more open society in india would be good for them really instead of this conservative false repressive approach, if men and women were allowed to pick their own partners there would be less repression and seedy motives in the communities and it could lead to the development of a more real honest loving society! Sad really, very sad!
     
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    #3 Parma, Dec 21, 2012
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  5. spnadmin

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  6. namjiwankaur

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    Sat Nam

    What can people like us do to repair this kind of disrespect for rape victims?

    There is a movie Jodi Foster was in years ago and it was about the concept of "women who ask for it" by dressing promisculously or getting drunk. It seems misogyny has tarnished so many societies.
     
  7. namjiwankaur

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    Sat Nam _/|\_

    This was also an ancient pagan practice where young women and men (probably children by today's standard & hopefullly all of us will recognize it is abusive by today's standards), but sexuality in those times was considered sacred. I think the priest represented the god and the priestess the goddess.
     
  8. Ishna

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    In Africa they say if you have sex with a virgin it will cure you of AIDS. So there are some brothels that 're-virginise' their girls so they can sell them as AIDS cures. :angryyoungkaur:
     
  9. Luckysingh

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    Do you mean the fabulous movie 'Taxi Driver' with De Niro as the legendry Travis Bickle ??
     
  10. Ishna

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    Oh, here's another reason from a different Sikh forum:

     
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  11. spnadmin

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    Ishna ji

    There are a lot of people who think that way, and not only Sikhs, Hindus or Buddhists. The purpose of reincarnation is pay-back time. So of course that would create an entire sub-culture of entrepreneurs who know how ..... for a price.... to help you by-pass the impact, either for yourself or your children. In the traditional dharmic paths, a negative event can be karma for negative deeds committed by even a parent or grandparent. Often children who have disabilities, who are mentally challenged, or gravely ill are considered open evidence of misdeeds in the past lives of adult relatives. That means you don't even have to be the guilty party in a past life so as to suffer in a future life. From this realization, it is a short hop. skip and jump to the caste system: individuals cleansing and re-cleansing karmas, passing and failing the spiritual and ethical tests set for their varna, until they are ready to move to the next varna and onward. Then finally the ultimate varna is reached where the impurities of past deeds have been washed away, and all spiritual challenges have been mastered. Of course you know all of that. I periodically like to imagine what is going on there and how it might work. :sippingcoffee:
     
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  12. Parma

    Parma United Kingdom
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    They are wrong as the misfortunate have a power that we will never poses through their misfortunes and problems we are able to learn from them. They are our teachers and a power of learning to society that we must never forget. So when you see a misfortunate soul, they are not the misfortunate, they are our teachers and only we are the misfortunate for not being able to understand how there situations of that souls life could have been better used to help improve and develop ourselves as well as theirs! We must be constantly learning developing improving, be a sikh!
     
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    #11 Parma, Dec 24, 2012
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  13. spnadmin

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    I could not agree more. If we want to improve spiritually, emotionally, intellectually then we have much to learn from those who are deemed "misfortunate." Nothing is more cleansing of the soul than to spend some time just being a friend to one who has been a victim of a crime or who was born physically or mentally challenged. It is then that I myself learn my own shortcomings. It is then that I learn how far I still have to go.

    That to me is the spiritual passage that works. And I don't have to die and reincarnate to do it. I can move forward in this lifetime, thanks to my teachers, who are not cursed by karmas of past lives, but bless us in this life.
     
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  14. Parma

    Parma United Kingdom
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    It is also how you realise and see god in everyone! Everywhere is waheguru! Waheguru amazing teacher!mundahug
     
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  15. Luckysingh

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    Parmaji,
    You are a very wise being!
    I'm impressed since you seem to be in a similar age group as myself if i'm not wrong.

    I can sense that your life experiences and encounters have taught you alot and that is what it is all about.

    We shouldn't ever feel that we have had it good or really bad, but we should learn from all these experiences.
     
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  16. Ishna

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    To paraphrase from another forum again, 'she [collective women] would have much lesser chance of getting herself raped if she acted ladylike'.

    Bold is my emphasis.

    I'd like a definition of ladylike.

    And also gotta love putting the responsibility of rape back on the woman (i.e. 'getting herself raped').

    *sigh*
     
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  17. Parma

    Parma United Kingdom
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    lol I have a very good teacher, Waheguru = god = nature, so have you learn god teaches all, observe it! My quality is no better, I have learnt that the evil is immeasurable and the good is immeasurable too, only I try and reflect on them and hopefully I will improve I just wish to learn others wish to ignor, the guru granth sahib is a guide, but the whole process is the same around you nothing is hidden I am not the wise, I am learning guidance which is given by gods grace = learning is just a natural process. Like a child that learns how to talk, walk, read natural instincts just nature taking it's course really. I do not know how I know, it is just a natural process I guess but everything is for nature = god to teach me and for me to learn from it! Learn, that love brother that is in you too and there you will find that great peace, realise that centered peaceful being you are and be one with that peace!mundahug

    Not to Lucky ji, or to the peacefull people in the world but to the other friends who do not care and always have an air of jealousy in them do not try and be clever with me you can not even observe the nature around you! You can not gain peace from me or any other enlightend soul that only arrives from one self all enlightend souls have ever done is help on the journey like the guru granth sahib ji does that is all any man can do, explain the words in the guru granth sahib ji! Beyond that is between you and the creator! No one can pull god out of you like some excorcist pulling out the evil, or man of guidance like a saint pulling out the goodness, madness if you can not find peace within yourself then how can anyone else? It is a peace within ones self, with your own mind and self and surronding nature = call it maybe community. The word nature is so diverse and peace with nature, the way I mean it, applies to all the meanings. Sometimes jealous people want to contain and define other people. Why be jealous of nature = god the one that loves us all the same not a drop more or less to anyone? We as humans have many characteristics how can you define that? It is an on going process the point until you die you are always learning! Let a peacefull mind wonder in peace and your world will always be in peace, contstraint a free peacefull mind and you will be trapped by all the constraints of life! PEACE TO ALL! and GOD BLESS!
     
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    #16 Parma, Dec 24, 2012
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  18. spnadmin

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    ishna ji

    A saying in the US where police are known for their craving for doughnuts: I will bet you dollars for doughnuts that the Delhi police will "get it" and police procedures and attitudes will change long before that in the general public.

    Throughout the 1980's and into the '90's the women's movement, victim advocacy groups, politicians, and from with the legal profession, came intense criticism of police departments across the US. It worked! Today it is the police who remind everyone else of the special concerns and procedures that must be invoked to protect rape victims, physically, emotionally and legally. You will find not only sensitivity but more importantly professionalism in most police departments. However, primitive attitudes of blame and shame of victims persists in the general public. All the police themes in the Tehelka sting are bandied about here in the US general public. Perhaps not as prevalent as was true 20 years ago, but still alive and well. Culture always trumps our better natures, and culture is very hard to change. In this story I see a real promise that the greater spirit of India is ready to tip the scales, and change will come. Remember the Indian flag has on it the wheel of dharma -- it will turn itself right, and good will balance out the bad.
     
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    #17 spnadmin, Dec 24, 2012
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