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General Controlling Kaam (Lust)

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by Abneet, Apr 8, 2014.

  1. Abneet

    Abneet
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    I need Sangat's help on how to control one of the vices that seem to bother me everday. Kaam is something that is a common problem today. In this part of the world men get sidetracked by lustful objects everyday and everywhere. People say its a disease in a man's body. But of course that disease can be removed. I must get advice on how to control Kaam. I've heard back than Sant Baba Nand Singh would never be in a room with only a woman alone unless the woman was with another man. Now I can't do that sadly enough. But He even mentioned back then how Kalyug will keep getting worse and worse and that this vice will get harder to stay away from. Doing Paath helps a lot, but still doesn't help me fully combat Kaam. So advice would be appreciated by all. What steps should I take everyday to help me get better?
     
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  3. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    This is a PERSONAL "problem"....its YOUR BODY, YOUR MIND..YOUR KAAM..and only YOU can remain in the Drivers seat and hold the steering wheel...
    Dont expect some magic paath/yogic position/mental exercise etc to help..wishful thinking....KNOW WHATS RIGHT and DO RIGHT ALWAYS..simple way of controlling Lust..Kaam Krodh everything BAD..your conscience will speak loudly at first..but when you keep IGNORING its VOICE..the voice will die down...NO OTHER WAY.

    Forget about fairy tales like Nand Singh and Mahatma Gandhi...those are useless...MKGandhi used to sleep NAKED with TWO TEENAGE GIRLS....and Today one of them has wriiten a book 60 years AFTER that MKGandhi actually did things he wasnt supposed to !!! So it was a fake picture presented by a so called Mahatma....

    GURBANI and our GURUS PERSONAL LIVES..personal lives of Sikhs like General hari Singh nalwa...should be our inspiration..not some so called "BRAHMCHAREE" bachelor for life saint who is GOING against GURBANI which CONDEMNS brahmchreeism..bachelorhood (as a religious duty) etc.

    Its Historically recorded that a Beautiful Afghan Princess called hari Singh nalwa into her private chambers and told him I want YOU..and he immediately kneeled before her and put his head on her lap and said..I am YOUR SON, MY Mother.

    ALL our Gurus showed us the way by getting MARRIED, having families, performing responsibilities etc..and NOT...spreading stories like the one you quoted about the Nanksaree holy bachelor for life. No GURU has said ...I wont be alone with a woman unless there is another man there..!!! So WHAT..??? . what does that.does that prove ?? we have Gang Rapes dont we ?? if 1 can do it..so can 2..whats the big deal...will a room full of 20 men..stop a woman being raped ??? IF ALL the 20 are IN ON IT ?? its such a shallow story.

    The Mulsim Historian and writer following Ahmad Shaha Abdali has this to tell the King.....These SIKHS..are so virtous..they call all women BUDDHI ( Old lday) no matter if she is a 18 year old ravishingly beautful..no sikh will call her anything else than BUDDHEE BURREE !! That is how a CLEAN MANN sees a woman who is not your wife !! Further he says..We Mulsims call them SAGG - DOGS..but deep inside we know thats wrong becasue they are LIONS...Babbar SHERS..but since they defeat us..we call them DOGS out of fear and jealousy..!! Now thats a TRUE HISTORIAN !!! The KING replied..then its just a matter of time before the SIKHS RULE this country...

    No offense meant or to be taken..all in the service of Panth of Guru Khala..
     
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  4. Abneet

    Abneet
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    Good points you've made Singhs of the Panth back than rescued woman from oppression and never mishandled with any of them and your example of Hari Singh Nalwa is a good example of conquering temptation when you have to deal with it whether it be in for money or women.

    Now Sant Nand Singh had his own dera of course but he kept teachings of GGS from what I've read about him, but he did a lot of good back than but now his dera is just a cultic sect which is a problem in our Panth today. Now you can tell me something I don't know about sant Nand Singh. Gyani ji, are you saying even hours of Naam or even doing numerous amount of paath won't help you be clean of the vices?
     
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  5. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    I am going to make this quite a blunt and frank post because I believe this is a blunt and frank subject and it needs to be treated with honesty.

    I have had an issue with lust since I was in my teens, it would be fair to say that until recently it has ruled my life. Being free until I met my current wife seven years ago, I had many opportunities to satisfy my urges. I guess I have slept with maybe 100 women in my life, and on one particular day of madness, curious to see how many different women I could sleep with in a day, managed 8. Now I do not mean to boast, or say any of this with any warped pride, but to provide some sort of background to the question, ie, what happens when you do cut loose, what happens when the thoughts manifest itself into physical actions, well, for a long time that lifestyle meant I was unable to meet a woman without mentally undressing her in my head, together with a huge appetite for porn and self abuse, I think it would be fair to say that lust ruled my life for many many years, caused the breakdown of every relationship I have ever had, (nearly including my current one),

    When I met my wife, she enchanted me, but for the wrong reasons, she was, and still is, the most lust inducing woman I had ever met, although it was not something she set out to be, it just was, but that was ok, because I dropped the thoughts, the porn, and focused on my wife, so far, so good, unfortunately, the menopause came, and I thought my life was over, my old habits came back, and although nothing physical ever happened with another woman, my mind became like a cesspit, the resulting inner struggle drove me to a madness the level of which I have never encountered before, sex became a bargaining tool, I have done this for you, you could at least do this for me, even if you have no urge to, it was a complete mess. In the end, I just wanted to die rather than have this disease inside of me, I was a wretch, I found a halfway house, I managed to see all women as sisters, daughters and mothers in real life, but in my head, there was a constant porn movie playing, flashbacks, etc etc.

    I never tried path, I could not see how mumbling words I did not understand was going to help, nor meditation, they seemed temporary solutions, and frankly insisting on not being alone with a woman is laughable, it is understanding I wanted, not someone to keep me in check, I wanted to wake up one day and be free of this disease, to not be a slave anymore to my lust.

    The solution turned out to be simplicity itself, I had a very frank and honest conversation with my wife about exactly where my mind took me, my thoughts, desires, the porn I watched, she was upset, not for long, as she recognised the basic male mentality, she was more disappointed than upset, in me, her words were ' I thought you were different harry, I thought you were better than that' watching my wifes face as I told her, made me realise what a cowardly wretch I actually was, a boy in a mans body, an uncontrollable idiot with no sense of self or respect for my wife, her face is burned into my head, her moist eyes, sad, let down, we lost a lot that day, but gained a lot too, everything between us was at once destroyed and reborn, I swore that from that day on I would be a man, a proper man, a husband, a son, a father, a friend, true, honest, and everytime I feel like I am about to fail, I think of my wifes face and I am determined not to be that person, to be that idiot, like a monkey in a zoo, to have some respect for myself, for the women around me,

    What also helped was a roofer friend, he has lived, and lived hard, really hard, his life makes mine seem charmed, he has been a huge help to me, although he maintains that it is me that has been a huge help to him, watching me, he says, helps him realise he made the right decision to be free of bones, every morning he comes in for a tea and a chat, older than me, he is the big brother I never had, a huge giant of a man with a strong gruff cockney accent

    Bones, harry, you see em all digging for bones, wheres my bone, they say, I have to keep digging for that bone, don't know why, but gotta find that bone

    Let it go san, let that bone go, you don't need it, be free harry, bones is for dogs, your a man my san, you gotta be a man, boy, stand up proud, be true, love yer woman, show her everything you are, be naked to er, show er your a straight bloke, an she will respect you for being a man, not a child

    so, as this is a Sikh forum, instead of mumbling words, embrace the very foundations of our religion, be true, be honest, be a man, be free
     
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  6. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    I cannot say how impressed I am with your honesty btw, its the first step to knowing yourself, and once you do that, you will know the universe
     
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  7. ravneet_sb

    ravneet_sb India
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    Sat Sri Akaal

    Always speak truth.
    Lust stops coming to mind.

    Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
    Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
     
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  8. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    Agreed Ravneetji speak the truth, live the truth, lust is nothing more than lies and fantasy, love is the truth, a desire to be close to your wife, your husband, to share each other is beautiful, to make love is beautiful, whereas base animal desire, lust, the darkness of fetish and self, lies, all lies
     
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  9. ravneet_sb

    ravneet_sb India
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    Often say to wife,
    To doubt is natural.

    U can always question
    If you are in doubt,
    I have to reply you,
    And honor will come if you accept reply.

    Relationship is

    1st Step Communication (Communicate your doubt)
    2nd Step Trust (Listen and have trust)

    Faith develops with communication and trust.

    Third Eye to it

    If there is silence to question, still accept the unspoken truth.
    May GOD bless us for future.


    To doubt is natural, one always question to resolve doubt.

    If the answer in not truth, relation is not there.
    If reply is truth, and is not accepted, relation is not there

    Relation with "GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI" is faith development

    Within own body and mind, first achievement (mind, speech and body in straight line)

    Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
    Wahguru Ji Ki Fateh
     
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  10. ravneet_sb

    ravneet_sb India
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    SAT SRI AKAAL,

    Raam Naam is read by everyone
    But none follows understanding

    "Draupadi" symbollic "Imaginative" mind being connected to five organs,

    when exposed "through" expression kills millions of bad neurons,

    causing lust, but one has to fight "Mahabharat" within self to keep

    the imaginative mind exposed, and lead a righteous life,

    which follows establishment of religion.

    What one say is different, body operates on imagination.

    "Aim" of religion is "Understanding"

    Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
    Waheguri Ji Ki Fateh
     
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  11. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Ever wondered WHY...Guru ji placed KIRT KARNEE...FIRST and foremost...then ONLY comes "Naam jappnna"...and then WAANDD CHHAKNNA...and the cycle REPEATS.

    All the so called "saints..holies..mahapurash etc..have changed this "sequence" to Naam Jappnna which they claim means sitting down cross legged for hours on end...mumbling as fast as possible .."naam"...

    When I was young pictures and paintings depicting GURU NANAK JI FARMING, watering his fields, taking care of hsi cows etc were common...BUT then again these same sants and holies CHANGED all that....pictures and paintings on tiger skins, seated with one arm up, standing on one leg, etc became common and even GURU NANAK was transformed forma Hard working farmer into a well dressed man seated comfortably on a dari/carpet with Round Pillows around him and at his back !!

    I have YET to see a picture/painting of any so called sant ji..Nand Singh included..DOING KIRT..farming wood cuttting etc etc which ALL OUR GURUS DID..

    A person engaged in KIRT...HONEST LABOUR and who has the WAANDD CHHAKNNA as a GOAL..will have NO TIME for lust evil thoughts..such DEVILS workshps are the IDLE MINDS of people who just sit around on Tiger skins (Fake ones)...and look at the people passing by to see who brings what for them to EAT !! They themsleves have ZERO to Waand Chhaknna. Guru ji calls this KHASMEH KAREH BRABERI...becasue their chelas always argue that..our Gurus also did this naam jappnna to "save" the world..and so does our Baba Ji..I dont BUY that. The GURU is GURU and Nand singh ishar singh is HUMAN.

    The WARRIOR SIKHS who rode on horseback 24/7..were the kirt akran valleh naam ateh waandan valleh..so thats why they ahd CHARACTER...which is MISSING WHOLESALE in our DERAS TODAY..just pick up any newspaer to see whats happening in DERAS.
     
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  12. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    ravneet SB ji..i just love your Mahabharta interpretation..wonderful..I have been watching this currently running on Star Plus Tv and made a few idscoveries myself..
     
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  13. ActsOfGod

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    First of all I want to acknowledge you for being so brave to admit you are struggling and to ask for help from the cyber-sangat.

    The truth is, >90% of males will face and struggle with this issue. So you are not alone in this. We are all struggling with lust/kaam to one degree or another. Some of us are more successful than others.

    I will offer some thoughts that I hope will be helpful. Sun Tzu said, know yourself and know your enemy, and in a thousand battles, you will have a thousand victories. So, as Gurbani advises us, Kaam is one of the five thieves. In order to achieve your goal, you must know yourself, and you must know your enemy (kaam).

    Some people will offer simplistic "solutions" such as: "tie the naala on your kachhera really tight", or "never be in a room with only a woman alone", etc. NONE OF THIS WILL WORK. Why? Because it's not an external phenomenon you are dealing with. It's inside you, inside your mind. You could lock yourself in a cave for 20 years and you might still be destroyed by kaam. So it's important to understand that the focus should be on the inside, not on the outside.

    Please understand that you are not a "bad" Sikh or a "bad" person when you have these thoughts. There is a biological origin of this impetus and it is present to fulfill a function (i.e. reproduction of the species). So this is ordained by the Creator. The problem comes when we abuse that natural urge (through porn, sex-addiction, etc.)

    I don't know the specifics of your situation, but I will offer a few more shifts in perception that might help.

    It is not a problem just with modern society. Even back in the ancient civilizations, people were impacted by kaam, just as much as they are today. It's nothing new. Everything that is happening today, has happened before.

    There will ALWAYS be something that will arouse you sexually. You go shopping for groceries, and a young woman with hardly any clothes on walks in front of you. You see an erotically charged scene in a movie. Someone flirts with you. Etc. etc. etc. The story of General Hari Singh Nalwa is a perfect example. Here was this gorgeous female literally throwing herself at him. "Take me," she is saying, "I want to bear your children." Honestly, how many men would be able to resist such a beautiful woman literally begging you to have sexual intercourse with her?

    But his mind was clear. He knew himself, and he knew his enemy. And the way he handled the situation, with such nobility and honor, made her feel ashamed of herself for the way she expressed such base desires.

    The moral of the story is that we get to CHOOSE. We have choice in the matter.

    You have been misguided into believing that this is something you cannot control, that you need the help of a "Sant" to deal with it, etc. In reality this is a habit that you have formed in your mind, and it is in your mind that you will find the solution. The outside world will not change. It is YOU who has to change.

    In my experience, trying to control kaam is extremely difficult. Aim instead for transcending it. So that it will not affect you. So that, like General Hari Singh Nalwa, your actions are always noble and honorable.

    Hope this helped.

    AoG
     
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  14. ActsOfGod

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    During the times of Sher-e-Panjab, Raja Ranjit Singh, the Sikh Raaj (kingdom) stretched from Delhi to Kabul (in Afghanistan). Raja Ranjit Singh's key general was Sardar Hari Singh Nalwa, who was a Rehatvan (strict observant) Sikh of the Guru. Once Hari Singh Nalwa had set up camp with his army in Jamraud in Afghanistan. A local Muslim woman called 'Bano' watched the Sikhs set up camp. She found Hari Singh Nalwa very handsome and attractive, and wished to have an illicit relationship with him.

    One day Bano came to see Hari Singh Nalwa. He was sitting in his tent, when the Sikh guards told him that he had a local woman who wished to see him. Not knowing who this lady was or what she wanted, Hari Singh gave permission to come and see him. Bano said, "I had heard of the Sikhs. You are remarkable people. I have been watching you from a distance. I am not married and have no children, but desire to have a son who is like you."

    Hari Singh did not understand the motivation or intention of Bano and said, "May Waheguru bless you that you may have a son with the qualities of a Sikh." Bano irritably said, "I want to have a son with you Sardar Ji."

    Hari Singh Nalwa said, "O sister! I am already married. I am sorry I cannot marry you or give you what you want."

    Bano's eyes welled up with tears of disappointment. About to leave, she said, "I had heard your Guru Nanak was great and that no one leaves empty handed from Guru Nanak's House, but today I am being turned away without the wish of a son being fulfilled."

    Hari Singh Nalwa, a true example of a Sikh of the Guru, replied, "It is true that no one goes empty handed from Guru Nanak's House. I cannot give you a son, but if you desire a son to be like me, then instead if you accept, from now on I will be your son, and I will consider you my mother." Bano was shocked and overwhelmed by Hari Singh Nalwa's sincerity, high moral character and faith in the Guru. She said, "I had heard that Sikhs of the Guru are great honorable people, but today I have seen it with my own eyes. From that day on Hari Singh Nalwa addressed Begum Bano as "Maa" (Mother) and she addressed Hari Singh as "Putar" (Son)


    Source: http://tuhitu.blogspot.com/2007/01/sakhi-series-33-hari-singh-nalwa-begum.html
     
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  15. ravneet_sb

    ravneet_sb India
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    Sat Sri Akaal,

    A question from "SELF" may resolve such duality of mind

    To a family holder person

    What One desires to act upon,
    If each one do the same,
    will that be accepted to mind.

    If everyone may do,
    but to follow discipline,
    my mind still not accept the act.

    This reflects the true "SELF"

    NON DEVIATING, STILL, NULL MIND (CONCLUDED).

    Life do comes to end, but dual thoughts not.

    Duality ends with life.

    Let life be there, and dual thoughts end.


    Kya Jana Kiv Marenege
    Kaisa Marna Hovye



    Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
    Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
     
  16. Abneet

    Abneet
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    I don't disagree on your point about those sants back than who would only concetrate on naam and have so many sevadaars just for himself for his whole life! Surely they needed a sangat of holy devotees. A prime example would be Sant Jarnail Singh in my opinion who did kirat and a lot of farming and did his naam while working while being unknown for 25 years and him motivating Sikh youth to give up bad vices to me that's a perfect example of a real Sant.

    Back on topic you see as Kalyug gets worse and worse more of the lust men have to face in this world is being accepted just like watching porn or men staring at woman at gurdwaras etc.... Its shocking how these doctors are saying its completely normal watching **** or it is fine having lustful thoughts when seeing women and that you shouldn't worry about it at all. Is this the worst it can get? Its definitely not right and like all you guys have mentioned is that you have to conquer your mind and tell your own conscience whats right from wrong. I can consider Paath and Naam helping but it is temporary help though. I have to take charge of my own actions and thoughts. Even though the public may think its normal I have to figure out if its good or bad.
     
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  17. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    lots of things are normal, it depends whether you wish to be normal, or a superman
     
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    #16 Harry Haller, Apr 9, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2014
  18. ravneet_sb

    ravneet_sb India
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    Sat Sri Akaal,

    For "Lust" why "Women"

    one shall be have check over and awareness of own "Mind"

    Its not "Drishti" or "Dekhna" more important is "DRISHTI KON" or "Bekhna"

    where the vision goes and meets inside and release harmone for body action

    Physical Being (Woman) has almost no correlation with lust "Emotion"

    Bhul Chuk Maaf

    One may see daughter/ mother but the vision extends within mind at different emotional centre.

    Than why "woman" is connected so much with "lust"

    It is the vision and imaginary focus and harmone released which activates,

    Imagination may be through reading/ visual or actual being.

    Its the focus of mind and harmone which excites, not the physical being.

    But without self "Awareness" blame has to be on physical world.

    as one can express, what one know,

    All human emotions be it "Love" / "Fear" has no correlation with real world.

    If one(male/ female) becomes eternally aware,
    blames for other will vanish,

    and one will follow religious discipline.

    Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
    Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
     
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  19. Sherdil

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    Gurbani says we should break the illusion of Maya. See things for what they truly are. The woman you are attracted to is just a walking, talking piece of flesh. You are attracted to her because she has the perfect waist:hip ratio for giving birth. A beautiful face is one that is symmetrical. It shows healthy DNA. Ample breasts are good for feeding the baby. Sex drive is just a subconscious urge to procreate.

    After physical attraction, you have the pair bonding phase. You feel intense love for the person. This ensures the man and woman will stay together long enough to raise the baby. Eventually, this phase ends.

    If the relationship lasts after that, it is because the both of you are best friends. You enjoy being around one another. Till death do you part.
     
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  20. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Abhineet Ji..
    You have given the example of a SANT naed Jarnail Singh Bhinderawaalh...
    That man was a SANT-SIPAHI...just like Baba Banda Singh, Jassa Singh Ahluwaliah..Jassa Singh ramgharriah..Mai Bhago..Bhai khaniyah Ji..and a HUNDRED THOUSAND OTHERS....

    A SANT-SIPAHI is easily RECOGNISED...there are hundred thousand examples in Sikh History..and thats what our GURU TELLS US to be...SANT-SIPAHIS.

    The Thousands of Sikh soldiers in the British Army etc are also SANT-SIPAHIS... just like me and you should be if we follow the SGGS truly.

    A True SIKH is NEVER just 50%...Just SANT ONLY. Those types are ROUNDLY CONDEMNED in SGGS as Fakes, pakhandees, bippars. THESE TYPES RETREAT into Caves, lock themselves up in Bhoras, stay away from WOMEN etc..and they FORGET that the KAAM/LUST is also LOCKED UP with them in the very cave/bhora they occupy !!! The Master is in the MIND..and the Servant is between their thighs. BOTH Master and servant are PRESENT...so no point in being "alone"...
     
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  21. Harkiran Kaur

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    I think, many people are only considering of sex as kaam. kaam is not sex. kaam is desire. It can be any desire. Alcohol, drugs, gambling, cars, shopping, power over others, etc. That person predisposed to kaam, will still be ruled by their desires. If they somehow manage to separate themselves from all women (or men for the opposite), then they will only experience kaam in a different way. Maybe they will take up alcohol or gambling etc. And you can't isolate yourself from everything. In fact, sex between husband and wife is normal part of closeness and expression of love. Try not to think that kaam = sex. All desires that rule us, instead of us them, are kaam. Instead of trying to isolate yourself from desire, try gaining control of it. And realize it's not wrong to want intimacy with your spouse. Just don't become addicted to it (by using it for purely physical pleasure). Treat it as the sacred thing it is. Its a huge connection between husband and wife. There is an energy exchange on a level beyond physical. It is not to just hand out to anyone or else the act loses its meaning and becomes perverted.
     
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