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Considering Leaving Sikhism Due to Kirpan

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by Kellysingh, Dec 3, 2011.

  1. Kellysingh

    Kellysingh
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    i believe in the gurus,Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji,and 5k and try to live my life as peaceful as can be. i rise in morn,shower, meditate ect... but alas, where i live i get threatend or arrest for ccw because of our article of faith, the kirpan. i ive in fear everyday of getting arrested over again and over. should i just abandon the kirpan? or just leave sikhism? im considering both and really dont know what to do.
     
    #1 Kellysingh, Dec 3, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 3, 2011
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  3. Taranjeet singh

    Taranjeet singh India
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    Re: considering leaving sikhism

    Please be guided by your conscience and Rest Leave to the Almighty..my first instinct response.
     
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  4. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    Re: considering leaving sikhism

    Kellyji,

    Only you know in your heart what to do, and only you know in your heart what aspects of Sikhism attract you.

    There are many sikhs that do not carry a Kirpan, in fact if you are not amritdhari, I do not think there is any specific need for you to carry one anyway.

    Whye exactly are you carrying a Kirpan anway if you have already been arrested once for ccw?

    What is it about the Kirpan that seems to be the only link between you and Sikhi?
     
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  5. Mai Harinder Kaur

    Mai Harinder Kaur
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    Re: considering leaving sikhism

    Harry ji is talking good sense. Question #1:


    Are you Amritdhari/Khalsa? From what I know of you, I would say, probably not. In that case you are not required to carry the kirpan and I would advise you to leave it at home. If one day, you choose to accept the blessing of Amrit, you will have a choice to make:

    Either stay where you are and fight the illegality of the kirpan
    or
    move.

    If my assumption is wrong and you are now Amritdhari, let me know and I will send you a PM.
     
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  6. findingmyway

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  7. Kellysingh

    Kellysingh
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    i am not a iniated sikh, i am just a sikh. but i hold myself to the 5k, rules of being khalsa, 5k to heart. i believe in the gurus,sggs ect. i wasnt born sikh, but ive read and lived my life to rules of a khalsa member. where i live, they dont do amrit because there are no the bowl thing (forgot it name sorry). im not bound to having to wear any of 5k, but i choose to andconsider myself a khalsa member even tho i havent taken amrit . i know some may argue im not a true member then, but iv pledged myself in my heart to rules,tenants and to the creator on my own.
     
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  8. Ambarsaria

    Ambarsaria Canada
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    Kellysingh ji I believe hpannu ji gave a very specific suggestion perhaps worth checking. Namely I quote,

    Sat Sri Akal.
     
  9. linzer

    linzer Mexico
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    Judge Painter in Ohio, concurring in a judicial opinion in 1996 wrote, "To be a Sikh is to wear a kirpan--it is that simple." (http://www.sikhcoalition.org/LegalUS6.asp)

    We carry a kirpan as a reminder that we are obligated to defend those who can't defend themselves. If we can't defend our own right to religious freedom, how can we defend others. Sure, it's not easy to fight a legal battle. Who said it was easy to be a Sikh. Many Sikhs have died to protect our way of life. Sometimes standing up for your rights is dangerous and life threatening. Your lucky that it's only an inconvenience. The are lots of
    organization out the that can help.
    Gurfateh.
     
  10. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    The very first and basic requirement of a SIKH is the GYAAN KHARAGH...SWORD of KNOWLEDGE, CONSCIENCE, Fairness, KIRPA, dya , symapthy, empathy, justice etc..DHARAMA. No body gets "arrested" for this weapon..BUT yet very very few SIKHS carry this.

    2. The KHALSA is a Body which admits members via the Khandey dee Pahul ceremony also known as AMRIT SANSKAAR. No one can SELF ADMIT without the PANJ being present before the SGGS. Guru Gobind Singh ji established this rule in 1699 at VASAKHI when HE too bowed before the PANJ and REQUESTED ADMISSION. SO Even the "GURU" is NOT EXEMPT.
     
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  11. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
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    KellySingh ji,

    Guru fateh.

    Let's be frank and honest. The fact of the matter is that although your intentions were noble but deep down you never wanted to be a Sikh which means studying and understanding Sikhi's message. In fact you were after the Sikhi "Accessories" in this case that is what 5k's were for you and you were more interested in dressing up like a Sikh rather than becoming one through studies or taking courses via internet about it.

    It is very easy to look like a Sikh. In fact during the 2 wars between India and Pakistan in 1965 and 1972 many Muslim spies were caught in Sikhi garb, the same you were looking for to look like one. Many Hindus dressed like Sikhs and infiltrated in the Sangat of Haramader Sahib before Indira Gandhi attacked the Sanctom Sanctorum of Sikhi. By this I do not mean you a Muslim or a Hindu spy but just you have never given yourself a chance to think deeply about Sikhi's core values.

    So, you never left Sikhi that you never embraced to begin with. Having Sikhi "paraphernalia" to show off does not make one a Sikh.

    Having said all this, no harm, no foul. I hope one day, you open any Gurbani page at www.srigranth.org and begin reading it to grasp the message and then breed a quest within to know what Sikhi is all about.

    If one does not finish a Marathon, one can not get a medal around one's neck. And 5k's were the medals your were collecting for yourself without your running even the first few practice laps much less completing the Sikhi Marathon.

    Good luck in your journey.

    Regards

    Tejwant Singh
     
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  12. Mai Harinder Kaur

    Mai Harinder Kaur
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    I find one statement of yours in here very disturbing. You say

    First, you do not need to receive Amrit to be a Sikh. Let me remind you from the Sikh Reht Maryada, our sort of rule book:

    It says only that a Sikh must faithfully believe in the Amrit, not that one must have already received it. You possibly do, although it seems to me that you haven't studied Sikhi enough to know what we believe. I admit, it is easy to fall in love with the Khalsa roop; it is very attractive, but there is so much beyond that appearance. You really like the 5Ks, but I wonder if you grasp their meaning. Each has both a spiritual/piri and a temporal/miri meaning and use. They are much more than just cool objects. Many Sikhs have died for them, including my husband and son.

    Second, you can consider yourself anything you like, but you are lying to yourself if you consider yourself a Khalsa. Those of us who are Khalsa have made a very serious, formal commitment that is lifelong and even beyond. Please do not hold yourself out as a Khalsa to other people. Especially do not tell the police you are a Khalsa; that could have bad repercussions on the real Khalsa. You have been honest with us here about that and I'm sure all of us appreciate your honesty. Please be as honest with others. I am saying this very politely. Others might not be so polite.

    That said, I have often advised people to live according to the Khalsa way of life for a period of time before receiving Amrit. This serves two purposes:


    1. It makes certain that the person is capable of living as a Khalsa.
    2. It gives the person a chance to make sure they are ready for this very great commitment.
    If you are serious about being Sikh, I hope you are moving in the direction of someday receiving Amrit. A Sikh is a learner. Please learn, I'm sure any of us here would be happy to help you. I am not meaning to discourage you in any way; I am just trying to state the facts and my opinion clearly. I am Amritdhari and have done what is necessary to call myself a Khalsa, although I have very long to go before I am truly khalsa (pure).
     
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    #11 Mai Harinder Kaur, Dec 4, 2011
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2011
  13. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Tejwant Ji..
    Sometimes we have to be "brutal" in order to wake up to REALITY....you took the bull by the horns. Just too many "want" and "desire" the outer paraphrenilia of Sikhism/Khalsa WITHOUT having to do the hard work to acquire its INTERIOR VALUES...and these were rightly described by Guru Gobind Singh ji himself as DONKEYS in LIONS CLOTHING ( and Guru ji demonstrated this practically by getting a Donkey to be sewn up in a LION SKIN....only to be exposed when the Donkey BRAYED ( I am scared of getting arrested for carrying a kirpan is one example of such behaviour). This shows that our wise Father Guru gobind Singh ji was very much aware of such sheep in wolfs clothing....
    On the other hand we ahve so called "BORN SIKHS" who find kesh, kirpan etc a BURDEN too heavy to carry and thus declare.." we are SIKHS INSIDE"....whcih is essentially the SAME stuff the "donkey in lions SKIN" is made up of...
    What we need to understand and grasp is that SIKHI is made up of 2 very ESSENTIAL aspects..OUTER and INSIDER facets....neither one ALONE makes for a COMPLETE SIKH no matter how much one wants or desires to believe its self deception. Just the SIMPLE HISTORICAL FACT of NINE GURUS over a period of 200 YEARS ....developing the INSIDER FACET of SIKHI is proof enough that Genuine SIKHI has to begin form the INSIDE FIRST bepore its beauty begins to shine through in the 5 Kakaars, Banna whcih the Last Guru Gobind Singh ji revealed. There is no shortcut..no INSTANT Khalsa...its a LONG ardous journey....a real life MARATHON as you so succintly put.
    Thank you for setting the record straight.
     
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  14. Kellysingh

    Kellysingh
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    first i appreciate the helpful comments on here, but to others who seem judgemental, dont judge me. only god can. I do grasp what each mean of the 5k. my favorite is kara. it reminds me of my slave to god and to want to do his will. ive been through alot as a sikh. i have been to jail,strip searched, finger printed, charged with a crime i didnt do all because i chose to follow best i could to the letter. and while i did win, i went through all that for my faith. so before you judge me, look at all i been through and then say something. i dont like to be judged. altho i am considering moving some where to hopefully avoid all this again. where i live ppl are not very educated on religions out side of christianity or islam. ive even tried to request items/brouchures ect to try and educate the police,courts ect.. let me tell you this, sit in a jail cell being charged with felony ccw facing up to 5 years in prison away from your family,kids ect and try not feel as i do. i came out with my head up but yet still have that lingering fear...
     
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  15. Kellysingh

    Kellysingh
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    also, my heart goes out to one who lost husband and son.
     
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  16. Mai Harinder Kaur

    Mai Harinder Kaur
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    Thank you very much. It means a lot to me that you care.

    However, they are only dead, not lost. I know exactly where they are.
     
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  17. findingmyway

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    All posts containing commercial links will be deleted without warning :badidea:
     
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  18. Harry Haller

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    I am sorry my friend, but it is very difficult to take you seriously about your passion and love for Sikhism when you make statements like

    'they dont do amrit because there are no the bowl thing (forgot it name sorry)'

    Again, apologies for being blunt, but no person who has lived their life to the rules of a Khalsa member would consider thinking this, never mind writing it on a Sikh forum, it would not have taken too long to google it, to educate yourself as to what the 'thing' is, it certainly would have presented your argument in a better light..

    Instead of trying to educate all around you into Sikhi, maybe you should educate yourself, there is no valid reason why you whould be wearing a Kirpan, period.

    So everything you have been through has not been for Sikhism, it is down to your own actions, please do not blame Sikhi of being in a jail cell, I know of many Sikhs that have been in Jail cells in Punjab, and they were there for being Sikhs, this does not apply to you brother, you were caught with a bladed dagger that, in the absence of baptism, you need not have been wearing anyway, so, yes it is a crime, yes, you are guilty, no, you sitting in a cell had nothing to do with defending the rights of Sikhs to wear a Kirpan, which lets be frank, in the absence of baptism, was not even a Kirpan anway, it was what it was, a bladed dagger, nothing more, nothing less.

    I would ask of you to try and embrace Gurbani for the minute and see where that takes you, I hope you find the grace to see you have dug yourself a hole here, and you need to take a fresh look at our religion so that you may appreciate the finer aspects of it, good luck
     
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  19. Scarlet Pimpernel

    Scarlet Pimpernel
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    Brother Kelly Welcome , here is a nice link for you to help you practice being a Sikh, you seem already to be doing the physical part of practice and thats good ,don't feel obliged to wear a kirpan just yet, try to read as much as you can as it will help, we have to practice developing both a physical and mental strength through faith , you are blessed to have faith and that is what matters.
    May you stay in High Spirits and may God bless you.

    ਨਾਰਾਇਣ ਸਭ ਮਾਹਿ ਨਿਵਾਸ ॥
    http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani
    ਨਾਰਾਇਣ ਸਭ ਮਾਹਿ ਨਿਵਾਸ ॥ नाराइण सभ माहि निवास ॥ Nārā▫iṇ sabẖ māhi nivās. The Lord abides in everyone.
     
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  20. Kellysingh

    Kellysingh
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    dont judge me. it was a kirpan. it was curved blade. with a sheath and look just like every other sikh kirpan. who are u to tell me if i can or cannot wear it???? if i wish to wear all 5k. i have every right to. i dont have to be a initiated sikh to. i have nothing else to read or learn about the 5k. i know what they are all for, when they came into existance, which guru marytr ect. to you people theyre just items/symbols. they are so much more then that. you have to look past the item, to see them for as they shhould be seen. they should be taken to heart,soul, guarded with your life. you sir shouldnt wear kirpan.
     
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  21. Kellysingh

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    so you sir harry, are wrong, i did stand up for my faith. it was not a dagger. i did stand up for sikhs everywhere who have been through or gone through what i did.i know because i spoken to united sikh and sikh coalition. let me tell YOU harry, YOU DO NOT have to be initiated sikh to wear all 5k. any sikh can wear all 5k. that is truth, try reading up on your faith brother before tellin me what i can and cannot wear or what my situation was. you were not there.
     
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