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Concept of Evil Spirits in Sikhism

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by vijaydeep Singh, Dec 4, 2004.

  1. Ek Oankar Wahiguru Ji Ki Fateh
    Here das is starting a bit tricky debate,what Sangat as general feels about ghosts or evil spirits or there concept viz a viz Sikhism.

    Das wants to say often a misdeed of person and resultant weak will power cause the possision by 'Ghost' or often it could be a mental ailment.

    But as per Das Only but Akal exist in all universe as Univers is the manifestation of Akal.

    Yet like souls with body exist so do souls without body do exists.

    So it is in Gurbani

    Kai Kot Jachh Kinnar Pishach,
    Kai kot Bhot Pret Sukar Mrigach

    moderator/Admin Kindly edit if verse is not coreectly written

    Kai mean many
    kot mean crorre ie 10 millions
    Jachh is slang from Yaksha a type of human like entity(refered as human only in Akalustat)
    They could be native of Sri Lanka before Sinhalees from north India sttled there.
    Kinnar are men from high mountain from Kinnaour of Himachal Pradesh(both are refered in hindu mythology also as semi or full divine man like creatures).

    Pishach is a type of Ghost ,which is vampire

    Bhot and pret both are used for ghost.
    Prest could be a ghost never been in human body while bhoot is ghost at least been born as human or may be other body and yet to be salvaged.

    Suker is pig.

    Mrig is deer.

    Mrigach stand for what Das ask you for it.

    But as per das Ghost do exist.And they posses the one who are devoid of faith in Akal. As there mind or brain is empty of Akal so those humans are always in bad frame of mind.

    So dead or evil spirits occupy that empty place and try to use that body for fullfiling their unfullfilled desires(during there life,They still could not get salvation because they are yet to come out of earthly desires).

    (Das is reapeating some things as said by Giani Sant Singh Ji Maskeen in one of his casatte).

    Das awaits your views on it.

    And on ghost busters in Sikhism like Baba Vadbhag Singh Ji 's school.

    Das agrees to one more plus point of Baba Vadbhag Singh Ji' school of Thought.

    Shaster Vidiya ustad of Das in Delhi have some devotion towrads that mentality and That ustad is so far succesfull to reconvert patit back to Sikh swaroop.

    Also das knows a family of hindus ,who were Radha Swamis but this cult could not solve there super natural problem but Baba Vadhbhag Singh Ji'scool did solve it.So they have left Radh Swamis and are adhereing to Sikh and Pro Guru Granth Sahib Ji school of Baba Vadhbhag Singh Ji.

    Das has intentionally choosen this rather a contrvertial topic but in day to day practicle life Sikhs do encoounter such problems related to 'Ghosts'.

    Das is just inviting the views of learned Sikhs on this issue so that there knowledge can be used in future for the welfare of mankind.

    Akal may help us.Akal is only who help all.
     

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    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 5, 2013
  2. Arvind

    Arvind SPNer

    This is a question so dear to me. I will just go off-topic on this for sometime. When I was a kid (12 yrs old), I got interest in calling these spirits etc. I dont know whether they existed or whatever, but was impressed by someone who did it. The interest led me to level of craziness. So much that whenever I am free, I am doing the same kind of (non-sense) of supposedly calling them! Later this paranoia went so deep into my head that I could visualize the complete universe within my head with all those planets, moons etc. This started to happen regularly, then I think, that was the point when I got scared, and got off my obsession, and never did it again.

    Coming back: Guru Sahib mentions about two poles of most of the things - good or evil etc, same thing applicable to spirits - jakhh, kinner, pisach, bhoot, pret etc. One wonderful thing I have experienced while doing paath, is that these things dont seem to come near at all, or perhaps if they come, they intend to join the sangat. Not sure, if this is some kind of halucination what people call as spirit seeing, anyway, my human perceptions are not strong or ready enough to sustain that experience yet.

    I strongly feel, there are things like nau nidhi, atharah sidhi etc too, which comes as a by-product of feeling 'Haazra Hazoor'. I consider people doing simran for obtaining just these as a goal are under a big mayajaal (illusion)

    Just sharing my own feelings. Sangat: please forgive me, if this didnt make any sense. I look forward with equal interest what Gurmat says about this.

    Best Regards.

    PS: 'Kai Kot... ' baani is correct as per Guru Granth Sahib ji (276)
     
  3. drkhalsa

    drkhalsa SPNer

    Dear Singhji

    Iit is infact hazy area in my concepts but I would like to share with you what I know
    My father is amritdhari sikh and regular nitnemi from years I have seen him . And he use to tell me stories about sikhi and many other things and he use to condem wadbhag singh very much but when as a kid i asked him about the existence of bhot and spirits then the common reply was every thing exist but for for sikh these things matter nothing the same thing he use to say as vijaydeep has said he use to say people away from god or people doing puja of demi gods become slave of them and these things punish them . Frankly telling I wa svery small kid then ( 8 years old ) but I have never experienced any thing like that in my life . But I remember one incident when my father was talking to my mother And iwas sleeping near by that my father witnessed something like peer asking him to do something then somehow he getting out of situation but when after that i asked him he never told me any thing .Since I was 15 years I stayed away from my parents for studies and still away till date so I never got chance to really clearfy all this things but offcourse I was curious about it
    But the bottom line is I never had any experience of such thing in my life .
     
  4. Singhstah

    Singhstah SPNer

  5. No Spirit or Ghost Exists . Even if I will try to explain , I will fail because words cannot express it .

    But , Spirit and Ghost Does not Exists .

    But if you want to see Spirit or Ghost , You can . Not even see but even touch them ......
     
  6. What's the mystery about baba Wadbhag singh ji dera ...

    This has spoiled many lives due to misconceptions about evil Spirit ....

    My own chacha became a Shadai ... There's lot to say but don't want to repeat those horrible years of child hood .....

    There is my cousin brother who has visited many gurudwaras but still says evil spirit has captured him.

    But what I have gained through years of researching and finding answers .. as per my findings what I conclude is that Wadbhag singh dera has too much negative energies surrounding .


    The more you think negative , more you generate negative energy , ultimately you attract negative environment and negative people .

    And all this sums up to such a situation that Evil spirit starts coming .
     
  7. Dear Drkhalsa ,

    Just Spend two hours with me I will Make you believe and even touch that peer not only peer but even Most Beautiful woman on this earth ....

    This is all the game of phsycology and psychic powers , which every human being has it .
     
  8. Our brain reproduces what it records .....

    I have talked to my own brother , Listened to him , Touched to him , While he was watching Television and I was sleeping ......
     
  9. drkhalsa

    drkhalsa SPNer

    Dear D S

    I am really excited about your invitation
    so when can we meet :)
     
  10. SUKHWINDER1

    SUKHWINDER1 SPNer

    A great topic which many hesitate to discuss. Perhaps I would have dismissed these kinds of topics as some matter of superstition until I encountered an problem myself. Has SikhPhilosophyNetwork ever looked into Islam---the jinns where Quran explains very clearly how they are used in black magic. I mean it explains complete technicality of it. How they are called and given tasks(depending on the intention of who calls them). I am sharing my personal experience because our Sikh community needs to be aware of the fact that many ill-willed Muslim criminals(in our case, this person is from Pakistan)use these ways for crime( in the hope of no criminal consequences). And to confuse the victim, these kind of criminals try to make it a matter of Sikhs vs. Muslims. I didn't know this person and I only contacted him because he was part of local Desi Radio. I had called him for some work related issue(not radio but mine) and from that point he planned this ugly crime against me and my family. I had no idea of his reputation until he wronged us where I came to know he had been known to stalk, harass, threaten to kill and deceive(money frauds) people.
    Any how, I never knew this person personally and was never involved with him. All of a sudden, something struck me with the overwhelming thoughts of him threatening me of my death and that how he had hated my kids since he saw them(they were barely 7 and 8) and my end was near. And that after my end, he will get to them. And he told me that he was reaching me through some technology that couldn't be proven in the court of law. He knew I had no idea about jinns and how they work. During my research, some body told me that he inflicted her with evil also. She called him a Satan and told me how she went through suicidal stages. Through my research, I found out that it was not any kind of technology; he was using the way of jinns(which many Muslims are expert in) to torture me with utmost ugliness 24/7. It is the kind of ugliness that one can not even imagine....It included and includes rapes, beating, torture of our children, elderly parents and threats to kill my brothers(whom he inflicted the same way). Much torture was and is done to accept it as our insanity when in any real sense even if we became insane, it couldn't be around him. Because he was never part of our life. He had no significance in our life in any way. We were never involved with him in any way. He is a criminal and he thought it could be the best way to plan such kind of a crime against a Sikh family since a Sikh family will not know how he could be reaching them. They couldn't go to criminal law and if they tried to tell the community, the community will think of them as insane since a common Sikh has no clarity about these kind of ways or jinns. In fact, many of them think of such reality as a superstition since we don't talk about these ways or of technicalities of how these things are done while they are clearly explained in Quran. And Islamic countries have death sentence for using these ways. Somebody from Pakistani community who would fear death at the thought of somebody from Pakistani community coming to know of him using these ways against some family of a Pakistani community felt so confident to wrong a Sikh family that not only he will be able to inflict torture on the parents of this family, but also will get away with the consequences. And furthermore, the parents will be considered insane if they tried to talk about it to their community. In the beginning, he tried to tell us that it was a matter of Muslims hating Sikhs. However, the reality is that he had committed many crimes against his own community also. His reason of using religion behind such ugliness was to confuse us and was to provoke us emotionally and personally towards his very lowly and despicable crime.
    My intention in writing this in detail is that we as a community need to address such problems. We not only need to make our community aware of such practices of ill-willed criminals from Pakistani community, but also need to make sure that such kind of criminals may never attempt such a crime thinking we will not understand crimes. We need to have ongoing educating programs on all the communities that coexist here in these countries. Our new migrating families(in fact all families) need to have awareness about these communities before they ever become prey to ill-willed criminals from these communities just because they didn't know certain things about certain cultures or religions.
     
  11. harry haller

    harry haller SPNer


    Excellent idea, let us completely ignore the teachings of the SGGS and launch full scale into a comprehensive education program to ensure this sort of thing never happens, maybe we could have large camps set up where speakers could give lectures on how to avoid being targeted, maybe the sangat could give donations to the speakers, so that these wise men can safeguard us all with amulets and charms, in fact, why not even leave Sikhism all together and instead put our faith in these wonderful speakers who are brave enough to protect us all from genies with big turbans and silly accents,

    Sorry I have to go now, it is time for my morning ceremony to ward off evil spirits, I have to walk round my car three times whilst sprinkling rice and chanting loudly
     
  12. spnadmin

    spnadmin SPNer

    SUKHWINDER ji

    I think before I or anyone else replies, a little clarification is needed. Would you tell us more about the "jinn" in this story and stories like these? Is the jinn an evil force, something that overtakes a person in a powerful way like an urge? Or are you thinking of it more like a spirit with a life of its own that has influence over someone?

    How you see this makes a difference in how I would personally respond to your story. Thank you.
     
    Gyani Jarnail Singh likes this.
  13. arshdeep88

    arshdeep88 SPNer

    The mere question in my mind that do evil spirits exist in the world brought me to this website many months back

    i was also trying to search if evil spirits exist or not and was trying to get to know what Guru Granth sahib ji says about this.
    The mere question came up in my mind because one of my muslim friend use to tell me how in QURAN there are many descriptions of jins and evil spirits and i use to watch lot of this GHOST HUNTERS kind of programmes too.
    There was one time i was asking myself come on GOD if there are some ghosts show me in the middle of the night (hahaha i must say after this talk with myself i use to get scared off and say no GOD i dont wanna see them hahaha ,just kidding).
    I had Seen many videos of Maskeen ji and ranjit singh too who in one of the many videos have talked about anglels and evil spirits too citing references from bani from sukhmani sahib.

    Right when i was sure that Gurbani talks about Evil spirits and ghosts and angels ,i visited this forum and heard views of many people about it.One of the view was that HUMAN is the only evil spirit and angel being talked of in gurbani in various stages of his/her life.This View was something new for me and honestly never tried thinking from this view.But more i started thinking from this view the more i find out this to be true.

    YES we humans are more dangerous than whatever power evil spirits maybe believed to posses.Take out daily newspaper and read the news yourself,everyday you will find atleast 5-6 gore murders done in new style and or in manner never even imagined or done before.

    Politicians ruining the country are literally more dangerous than what evil spirits are believed to be

    Humans Whom we know are capable of betraying you right when you trust them and commit to crimes no one could have even imagined off

    so decide who is more dangerous ...
    evil spirit whom we dont trust dont know or a HUMAN whom we trust and boast of knowing and understanding to the best

    Personally i have settled today with this view that There might be no evil spirits and the things and talk of EVIL SPIRITS being talked of in gurbani are just stages of Humans characterized by ill traits.Though just my view only

    But as said by lucky singh ji in one of the other forum that Interpretation of things changes with ones own development and growth so tomorrow it might see things from different view.Personally today i haven't seen such evil spirits and would believe that HUMANS are the only EVIL SPIRITS
     
  14. spnadmin

    spnadmin SPNer

    Thanks arshdeep ji

    Thanks because the expression or something like it, "he was like an evil spirit" or "he seemed taken by an evil spirit" uses the idea of an evil spirit much like a metaphor. When we say that we do not mean "spirit" in a literal sense. I really want to know how SUKHWINDER ji understand the concept of an evil spirit, or how can we really answer the question asked? There is even the issue of evil itself. You gave some good examples of how evil seems to take on a life of its own in the lives of crooked people.

    A sincere question deserves to be taken seriously. Taking it seriously doesn't mean anyone has to believe in spirits. It means the effect on another's life is worth thinking about.
     
  15. muddymick

    muddymick SPNer

    Would it be possible that what is often considered or perceived as evil spirits by people is actually psychological problems or processes that are projected on to the world. I have worked in mental health and apart from the usual procession of bhoot,pretas, Djinns and demons. People believe themselves cursed, attacked or persecuted by, every one from Jimmy Tarbuck to super gran.

    I am not saying supernatural beings do not exist! Nor am I saying they do! I am all for rationally looking at the evidence both scientific and anecdotal.
    Whether they actually exist at all outside the mind may not matter much to someone who is being attacked by one! Alleviating the suffering would seem to be the most important part. Whether that be by incantations, psychotherapy or Chlorpromazine.

    Although personally I think there is much to universe we do not understand and its supernatural denizens are just the tip of the iceberg. I do also suspect that many people project their fears, confusion and other negative emotions and processes outside of themselves unable to face their responsibility.

    :happysingh:
     
  16. Muddymick ji,

    Guru Fateh.

    Well said.

    Thanks for your insights. It is interesting to know how mind games are played consciously/intentionally or unconsciously/unintentionally by us.

    The demons we create within perhaps are our own alter egos which we are too afraid and insecure to confront.

    It can be a slippery slope for anyone without any gripping to hold on to.

    Let me stop before I get into a trance.:)

    Regards

    Tejwant Singh
     
  17. Evil spirits only exist in my opinion if the latter is minimum 200 proof. It would make a great jinn tonic btw.
     
  18. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Sawa lakh se EK larraoan SPNer

    GURU NANAK JI writes.."KOI MUGHAL NA HOAA ANDHA...Not a single cannon got BLOCKED !!...and given the fact that GURU NANAK JI is way way way MUCH WISER than ME..I TRUST HIS CONCLUSION 1000000000%.....THERE ARE NO SUCH THINGS.PERIOD.

    ( THIS IS FROM THE EYE WITTNESS ACCOUNT OF bABARS invasioN AND destruction OF punjab....THE muslim seers AND peers AND hindu pANDITS HAD ADVISED THE lodhi sultan NOT TO WORRY THE LEAST BIT..THEY HAD powerful jinns AND DEMONS UNDER THEIR WILL AND THESE JINNS WOULD blind THE mughals AND bABAR AND jam shut THEIR cANNONS....SO THE iNDAIN lODHI aRMY WOULD SLAUGHTER THE MUGHALS...but THE OPPOSITE HAPPENED...NO MUGHAL WAS BLINDED..NO CANNON JAMMED..AND BABAR CARRIED OUT THE WORST MASSACRE IN EMNABAAD AND OTHER TOWNS...READ THE GURBANI AND CONCLUDE.:kaurkhalsaflagblue::kaurkhalsaflagblue::kaurkhalsaflagblue::kaurkhalsaflagblue::kaurkhalsaflagblue:
     
    harry haller and Tejwant Singh like this.
  19. muddymick

    muddymick SPNer

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Ji,

    could you please give us the reference so we can look it up?

    Thanks
     
  20. Ambarsaria

    Ambarsaria ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār SPNer

    muddymick ji the following if it helps,
    The complete shabad is quite long but I have given reference to the URL for you to read before and after the line of interest,
    <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]-->Sat Sri Akal.
     

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