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Clearing Spiritual Concepts

Discussion in 'Interfaith Dialogues' started by nrkalee, Jun 24, 2007.

  1. nrkalee

    nrkalee
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    A chariot is drawn by five horses that represent the five senses. The mind is the reigns. The horseman is the intelligence, and the chariot itself the body. The self or the soul is a passenger.

    The passenger desires sense gratification. Therefore, the intelligence is using the mind and senses to dash about tasting various pleasures of the world. The soul enjoys or suffers the consequences.

    Now, the mind is like a powerful computer. It’s automatically programmed to seek pleasures and offer it for your use. Basically, it is like a search engine that offers up what ever it is that you have been previously searching for. If you have been surfing for porn, then the mind will display addresses of various such sites in almost the same manner that the Internet prompts, offers you related sites. If you look for God, then it will, without delay or duplicity, offer you sites on that subject. The mind is in short very like a machine that operates on artificial intelligence.

    Now, to control this vehicle, is easy.

    First and foremost, you need the knowledge. Basically, you should know where it is advantageous to go to. Which inputs are advantageous for you to smell, taste, and experience so as to obtain an advantageous future setting. Needless to say, all this will only make sense if you have a full working knowledge of the world as is described in the shastras. Meaning, you should know with certainty that with death comes a new placement, a new setting, a new body. Some bodies are desirable, some placements are optimal, others not so, etc., etc. Frankly, these answers can only be provided by the shastras in conjunction with a self-realized person. Just some smattering of religiosity is will not do. Just any old scriptures will not do. A realized person, using revealed scriptures* alone can give you firm guidance. Crystal clear understanding is a prerequisite. Incomplete ideologies, pseudo teachers, etc., will not get you anywhere.

    Once the knowledge is acquired, then the desire to go to that destination can be fixed. Once the destination is fixed, the intelligence can be directed to take the chariot to that destination. The mind and sense will obey.

    Ultimately, it is as simple as driving a car to a particular destination, say Chandni Chowk in old city Delhi. You have to know where it is to get there!

    It is a little difficult to differentiate between the mind and the intelligence as both appear to speak you as your conscience. There are other pitfalls as well. In the end, you will realize that one simply cannot get out because the pleasures of the world are far too strong. Therefore, the only way out is …if you need to know more ask.

    * By revealed scriptures I mean Vedic Literatures. Everything else is too messed up.
     
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  3. spnadmin

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    Veer ji

    Your comments are in the Interfaith Dialog forum. The forum is appropriate. They are clearly part of Vedantic tradition -- but not Gurmat. Scriptures mentioned in your comments, for example, are not Siri Guru Granth Sahib, and thus not Sikh scripture. This would be the other side of the dialog.


    Beyd puraan kateb kuran jamin jaman saban ke pekhai.
    If the vedas, puranas, the quran and all other holy books of the world are studied.

    Paun ahar jati jat dhar sabai su bichar hajark dekhai.
    If subsisting upon air may be practiced and many other such performances be performed.

    Siri Bhagvan bhaje bin bhupat ek rati bin ek na lekhai.
    Inspite of all this, all such performances are useless without recitation and adoration of God.


    Tav Prasaad

    With all sincerity would you explain what you mean by "Everything else is too messed up." This left me a bit perplexed.

    God is always cheerful
     
  4. nrkalee

    nrkalee
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    Actually, I wrote the above article (Clearing Spiritual Concepts) after I read “The Spiritual Pendulum’ proposed by a Sikh gentleman on this forum--and I was perplexed! Indeed, I was saddened to see such sincerity coupled with such lack of clarity.

    All you intense devotion is wasted if you do not direct it to the right source. Providing a seemingly write answer will not score you marks in the exam.

    All prayers to God will not be heard. It’s not that God is particular or partial, it’s because prayers, however heartfelt, cannot actually purify you. Only the name of God, (and shastra-approved activities directly connected to the Supreme Lord) has the potency to purify, to release you from material bondage. This is of course why name-jap is fundamental to the process of purification. The basic idea here is: God is non-different from his name, pastimes, etc. Therefore, his name is potent and we do jap. His pastimes are potent. They fore we remember it.

    This of course is basically what you too have said. But is there clarity? As far as I know, the Sikhs have rejected the name of the Supreme Lord (big mistake) and chanting something very arbitrary, if at all. What is more, they make fun of his pastimes. Both activities, are fundamentally detrimental to spiritualism.
     
  5. Harjap Khalsa

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    Beyd puraan kateb kuran jamin jaman saban ke pekhai.
    If the vedas, puranas, the quran and all other holy books of the world are studied.

    Paun ahar jati jat dhar sabai su bichar hajark dekhai.
    If subsisting upon air may be practiced and many other such performances be performed.

    Siri Bhagvan bhaje bin bhupat ek rati bin ek na lekhai.
    Inspite of all this, all such performances are useless without recitation and adoration of God.


    aad0002 Ji,

    Gurbani rejects all the rituals and tells us to concentrate on Naam Jap.
    Gurbani is all Spiritual Concept, nothing else.

    in my opinion nrkalee is simply advocating against Gurbani. Gurbani is not clear to this fellow. According to this fellow our source is not right.

    Waheguru Rakha Sabna da.

    This reminds me of Guru Ji's Vaak today:

    Awsw mhlw 5 ]
    kwmu koDu loBu mohu imtwvY CutkY durmiq ApunI DwrI ] hoie inmwxI syv kmwvih qw pRIqm hovih min ipAwrI ]੧] suix suMdir swDU bcn auDwrI ] dUK BUK imtY qyro shsw suK pwvih qUM suKmin nwrI ]੧] rhwau ] crx pKwir krau gur syvw Awqm suDu ibKu iqAws invwrI ] dwsn kI hoie dwis dwsrI qw pwvih soBw hir duAwrI ]2] iehI Acwr iehI ibauhwrw AwigAw mwin Bgiq hoie qum@wrI ] jo iehu mMqRY nwnk so Baujlu pwir auqwrI ]3]28]

    like kaur-1 ji reminded us of death by that short story of Raja Janak, one must remember this truth and must involve in what actually pays forever- NAAM JAP

    Nam beejo, ta ke naam he miley, te naam vich samaa jaeeai

    Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
    Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
     
    #4 Harjap Khalsa, Jul 1, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
  6. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Nrkalee

    You have said a lot in a few short paragraphs, and it would be important to come back to a discussion. However you have said some things that I do not understand. With your help,

    All prayers to God will not be heard. It’s not that God is particular or partial, it’s because prayers, however heartfelt, cannot actually purify you. Only the name of God, (and shastra-approved activities directly connected to the Supreme Lord) has the potency to purify, to release you from material bondage. This is of course why name-jap is fundamental to the process of purification. The basic idea here is: God is non-different from his name, pastimes, etc. Therefore, his name is potent and we do jap. His pastimes are potent. They fore we remember it.

    What are shastra-approved activities? This question might sound as if it borders on the sarcastic, and I do not intend sarcasm. How do shastras acquire the authority to "approve" some practices and "dis-approve" of others? Where does the authority come from?

    And what are God's past-times? This statement is baffling, probably because of my personal lack of experience. I am not sure how God would have past-times. God is in the past, present and future all at once, and looking out from this perch there is no experienxe of time. Or do you mean by past-times, God's activities? Then again, my confusion rests with the notion that God might be "busy" at work For example, one of my past-times is participating in the SPN forum. But it is a human projection to view God as having business or past-times in this sense.

    Once I understand your thinking, then it might be useful to return to the idea that we are not purified by prayer. Or that Sikhs have rejected the name of God and chant something arbitrary.
     
  7. nrkalee

    nrkalee
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    PASTIMES not PAST-TIMES

    Leela.

    "naam japo ji aise aise, druv prahalad japyo har jaise..."

    The pastime such as those connected with Maharaj Druv, with Prahalad, etc.
     
    #6 nrkalee, Jul 1, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 2, 2007
  8. nrkalee

    nrkalee
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    Read my new thread Gun Gobind...
     
  9. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    nrkalee

    Once again, static on my radar screen. You have not clarified by the statement "everything else is too messed up.

    Now another perplexing statement. You cite Prahalad as an example of one of Waheguru's pastimes. Presumably you are referring to this story

    "HOLI the festival of colours has been a very distinct event in India since the times of Bhagat (Saint) PRAHALAD, the son of HARNAKASHYAP, who being a autocrat King, forced his countrymen to worship him, instead of GOD. The defiance of Prahalad led to many tortures given to him by the King, one of which was to be burnt alive. 'Holkan' a sister of Harnakashyap volunteered to take Prahalad into a flame of fire as she was in possession of some magical powers by which she was immune to fire. But Prahalad, with the Grace of God was spared and Holkan was destroyed by the same fire, she was not susceptible to. Since that day, this festival came into existence i.e. The Triumph of Truth over Evil."
    Untitled Document

    Somehow the idea that interventions by the Grace of God are pastimes of Waheguru doesn't work. A pastime in ordinary usage of the English language is more like entertainment. As in "an activity that someone does regularly for enjoyment rather than work; a hobby : his favorite pastimes were shooting and golf." (Oxford American Dictionary)

    Is this what you really mean to say?
     
  10. nrkalee

    nrkalee
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    My dear sir:

    As regards Druv and Prahalad, please read the Bhagavat Purana and get your facts right. The story of Prahalad is not the one connected with holi. That’s just a side story, and I am not even sure if it’s part of Vedic literature. The real pastime is the one of Prahalad and Lord Naramsimha dev, the incarnation of the Supreme Lord. The story of Druv is of determined five-year old whom the Lord visits. Nanak sings their praises so perhaps so should you instead of coming up with corny arguments.

    Finally, what’s this waheguru’s pastimes? Wah-e-guru is an expression not a person. I like that, reject the true names of God that have unlimited potency and fabricate ones of your own.

    Admin Note :
    Personal comments should be avoided at any cost. We do not need to get personal to sound intellectual to other participant or do we. Thanks for your co-operation.
     
    #9 nrkalee, Jul 2, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 4, 2007
  11. spnadmin

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    nrkalee

    Once again,

    bRhm mhysr ibsn scIpiq AMq Psy jm Pws prYNgy ]
    Brahm mahesar bisan sachipat ant phase jam phas parainge.
    Even the god of creation, god of death, the god of sustenance and king of heaven would have to die at last.


    As for your observation that Waheguru is not a person -- Of course, Waheguru is not a person. However Waheguru is personal. And, now you have hit on something that is relevant to Interfaith Dialogs.

    Waheguru of the Sikhs is both immanent (up close and personal) and transcendent (Akal Purakh) -- and as such our Sikh notion of the nature of god discriminates Sikhism from the other Dharmic traditions.

    By overlooking the unity of Waheguru's immanance/transcendence we end up on the path of discussing whose transcendent lord came first, is bigger, better, more powerful. Nanaak took a new and different path. Waheguru is the fresh beginning.

    All the best
     

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