Welcome to SPN

Register and Join the most happening forum of Sikh community & intellectuals from around the world.

Sign Up Now!

Chandi Di Var with translation (YouTube video)

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by dalsingh, May 19, 2009.

  1. dalsingh

    dalsingh
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2006
    Messages:
    1,064
    Likes Received:
    233
    Over the years I've often wondered why something concerning a Hindu Goddess would be recited by Singhs prior to war.

    I think I'm finally beginning to get it. Behind the use of classical Indian mythogical imagery lies a rivetting account of battles and a tale of fierce bravery against demons. The range of vocabulary used to describe various weapons in the composition is impressive. The wide use of metaphor, including Islamic shows the composer was acquainted with the cultural practices of Muslims. They use the analogy of hajis visiting Mecca to describe a crowd approaching Durga and warriors "rocking" (like students are taught to do whilst reciting the Koran in Muslim schools), to describe the actions of wounded warriors in battle. This clearly indicates that this is no simple translation of the classical Chandi tale but a modern interpretation for a new purpose. The account evokes bir raas and Aad pan ji, it also refers to a number of animals, see if you can remember any from the study we did on animal references in SGGS ji! :)

    Listening and reading, one can easily imagine how it would stoke up bir ras for warriors about to go to battle. Better than watching a Rambo film! lol


    YouTube - Chandi Di Vaar - Sikh Prayer (Only Recite In Daytime)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Loading...


  3. Hardip Singh

    Hardip Singh India
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2009
    Messages:
    323
    Likes Received:
    501
    Dear Sir,
    BEER RAS is not something which could be generated by listning to such wars. This is God gifted. One is born of those qualities to fight for the justice and truth.
    This bani itself is very much controversial as far the author ship is concerned. Mearly matholigical events which are highly exeggrated and have no base , can not enhance or introduce this BEER RAS in some one. You have to have something really concrete.
    Sorry, I donot agree with your views.
    Regards & Guru fateh.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  4. dalsingh

    dalsingh
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2006
    Messages:
    1,064
    Likes Received:
    233
    That is fine. I'm hypothesising myself.
     
  5. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
    Expand Collapse
    Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
    Mentor Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    Messages:
    7,623
    Likes Received:
    14,190
    YES..BEER RASS was Generated by the VAARS being SUNG in their TUNES.....during the Battles of Guru HARGOBIND JI SAHIB...and ALL these VAARS are present in the GURU GRANTH SAHIB JEE.
    Guur Ji is the one who put the Beer Rass Tunes...or DHUNIS..to these Vaars...and REMEMBER that Guru Hargobind Ji fought and WON all FOUR BATTLES !!!

    For the Vaars in SGGS being SUNG in their CORRECT Raargs and Dhunnis..go to...
    www.sabdvartara.org....SDO Bhai Mohinder Singh Ji and his Organisation has done us a wonderful SERVICE by doing Raag kirtan of these Vaars in their ORIGINAL raag/dhunis....

    I wonder WHY Some "Sikhs" feel the "need" to put aside the SARAB KALA SAMPOORAN SATGURU JI..the SGGS..and go look for OUTSIDE materials..for teh beer rass etc...when SGGS has 110% of EVERYTHING !!! Gagan Damama Bajio..Sir Dhar tali gali meri ayo..are ALL the Beerass any SIKH neeeds.....and Guru Ji Hargobind Ji, Har rai Ji and Teg bahdur ji PROVED It....and Guru Gobind Singh ji alos Fought and WON ALL WARS....

    That is also the point where we have to "explain" all that mytholigical BS, exaggerated demons and dragons and blood drinking vampirtes etc etc..stuff that is straight out of Merlin and King Arthur types of BS..who needs all this..when we have the Perfect SGGS....:D:D:D:D:D
     
    • Like Like x 5
  6. Hardip Singh

    Hardip Singh India
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2009
    Messages:
    323
    Likes Received:
    501
    Gyanni jee.
    Thanks for correcting me. what I mean was has been explained by you in the last paragraph of your comments. Thanks once again.
    One thing, at what pages of SGGS I can find these wars. The sixth Guru ji's bani is not their in SGGS. Pl clarify.
    Regards and Guru fateh.
     
  7. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
    Expand Collapse
    Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
    Mentor Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    Messages:
    7,623
    Likes Received:
    14,190
    The VAARS...and there are 22 of them...are at the END of various Raags....Vaar ASA KI is the most famous....its sung every morning at almost ALL Gurdwaras....its DHUNNI..is TUNDEH ASRAJEH KI DHUNNI.
    Its beleived that Guru Hargobind Ji POPULARISED the Vaars to be Sung according to the POPULAR DHUNNIS of the time....there is a Tundeh Asrajjeh Ki Vaar in FOLKLORE....so Guru Ji ADAPTED that Dhunni for Asa Ki Vaar...

    ***** GURU HARGOBIND JI, GURU HAR RAI jI, GURU Harkishan Ji DID NOT WRITE ANY GURBANI.

    There is Vaar Majh ki..at end of Raag majh..Basant Ki Vaar...etc..read the full details below...

    Vaar & Dhuni: There are 22 Vaaras included in the SGGS, 9 of them come with distinctive assigned traditional folk musical tunes (Dhuni) of their own as noted below. Thus, they have a simple rhythm or a pattern of a folk Taal(beat) with a wider simple and emotional appeal. Vaars are not assigned with any particular "Ghar" notation. They are accompanied by "Slokas" and "Paurees", and the essence of the Vaar lies in the "Pauree". They are generally intended to produce martial feelings.

    • Maanjh Kee Vaar Mahala 1 — Malak Mureed Tathaa Chandharaa Soheeaa kee Dhuni (sggs 137).
    • Gauree Kee Vaar Mahala 4 — Raai Kamaaldee Mojdee Kee Dhuni (sggs 318).
    • Aasaa Dee Vaar Mahala 1 — Tunde Asraaje Kee Dhuni (sggs 462).
    • Gujree Kee Vaar Mahala 3 — Sikandar Biraahim Kee Kee Dhuni (sggs 508).
    • Wadhans Kee Vaar Mahala 5 — Lalaan Bahreemaa Kee Dhuni (sggs 585).
    • Raamkalee Kee Vaar Mahala 3 — Jodhe Veere Poorvaanee Kee Dhuni (sggs 947).
    • Saarang Kee Vaar Mahala 5 — Raai Mahame Hasane Kee Dhuni (sggs 1237).
    • Malaar Kee Vaar Mahala 1 — Raanai Kailaas Tathaa Maalde Kee Dhuni (sggs 1278).
    • Kaanare Kee Vaar Mahala 5 — Moose Kee Dhuni (sggs 1312).
    Vaars are to be sung in appropriate Raaga and Dhuni indicated in the SGGS. For example, Maanjh Kee Vaar is to be sung in Raaga Maanjh accompanied by the Taala of "Malak Mureed Tathaa Chandharaa Soheeaa kee Dhuni".



    Unfortunately the art of traditional Dhunis mentioned in the SGGS appears to be dying out, and needs to be preserved by training youngsters


    A Vaar is a narrative poem, usually set to music; thus, it often is a story told in a song. Any story form may be told as a ballad, such as historical accounts or fairy tales in verse form. It usually has foreshortened, alternating four stress lines ("ballad meter") and simple repeating rhymes, often with a refrain.
    If it is based on a political or religious theme, a ballad may be a hymn. It should not be confused with the ballade, a 14th and 15th century French verse form. The ballade is a verse form typically consisting of three eight-line stanzas, each with a consistent metre and a particular rhyme scheme. The last line in the stanza is a refrain, and the stanzas are followed by a four-line concluding stanza (an envoi) usually addressed to a prince.


    AND a FURTHER informative article form T.Sher Singh Ji..of Gurbani Org


    SOME TECHNICAL TERMS USED IN THE GURBANI

    Through the letters, comes the Naam; through the letters, You are Praised.
    Through the letters, comes spiritual wisdom, singing the Songs of Your Glory.
    Through the letters, come the written and spoken words and hymns ...(sggs 4).
    <><><><>
    The Sikh Gurus wrote Shabads in poetical-metric forms. They were then associated with various Raagas and Ghars and many other terms such as Partaal, Sudhang, Rahaaou, Pauree, Vaar, Ikpadaa, Dupadaa, Tipadaa, Chaarpade, Ashatpadee, Chhand, Ghorian and Alahunian of folk music, types of Kirtan music, Gaathaa, Funhe, Chaubole, Savayyas, Karhale, Solahe, Mahalaa, Pattee, and so on. This Gurbani Reflection will attempt to have a brief discussion of these.
    RAAGAS:
    Raaga — combination of a set pattern of notes — is a condition of melody, which literally means to color or to please. Sri Guru Granth Sahib (SGGS) is arranged in chapters that bear names of musical Raagas, according to the nature of the composition, the musical clef (Ghar), etc. Each of the Raagas is unique. From a music standpoint, specifically the Bani of the SGGS is arranged and indexed according to the prescribed Raagas, singing forms, music signs/ headings and the other guidelines noted in the Bani. Popularly known as Gurmat Sangeet, such system of Gur-Shabd Kirtan instituted by the Sikh Gurus (initially established by Baabaa Nanak) is a unique musical tradition indeed, which creates original and specific musicology. The Gurus made the Kirtan an inseparable part of the Sikh way of life. The mixture of both the Shabad and the Raagas compliment each other in that the Raaga conveys a feeling and the Shabad a message. Thus combined together both produce very potent effect and impact on the human mind and heart, invoking spiritual sentiment, concentration, discipline, longing and love for God, etc. Thus the aim of the Kirtan is to experience the inner joy (Bliss) and Sahaj (one's natural state of Being). Therefore, the Kirtan is mentioned in the SGGS to be "the support of life", "remedy against evil", "source of virtues", "invaluable gem", "ocean of bliss", "divine nectar", "bestower of salvation", and so on. Sri Guru Arjan Dev Jee (who first compiled and installed the Aadi Granth at the Harmandir Sahib, was very fond of the Kirtan and the music) initiated the system of music sessions (Chowkies) at the Harmandir Sahib.
    The entire Bani of the SGGS has been classified under 31 main Raagas. They are as follows: Sri, Maanjh, Gauree, Aasaa, Gujree, Devghandhaaree, Bihaagraa, Wadhans, Sorath, Dhanaasree, Jaitsree, Todee, Bairaaree, Tilang, Suhee, Bilaawal, Gaund, Raamkalee, Nat Naaraayan, Maalee Gauraa, Maaroo, Tukhaaree, Kedaaraa, Bhairav, Basant, Saarang, Malhaar, Kaanraa, Kalyaan, Parbhaatee, and Jaijawantee.
    Besides these 31 main Raagas, there are also variants of Raagas such as Gauree Guaareree, Gauree Dakhanee, Gauree Chetee, Gauree Deepkee, Gauree Poobee, Gauree Maanjh, Gauree Poobee Deeplee, Gauree Sulakhanee, Gauree Maalvaas, Gauree Maalaa, Gauree Bairaagan, Gauree Sorath, Wadhans Dakhanee, Tilang Kaafee, Suhee Kaafee, Suhee Lalit, Bilaaval Dakhanee, Bilaaval Gaund, Bilaaval Mangal, Raamkalee Dakhanee, Maroo Kafee, Maaroo Dakhanee, Basant Hindol, Kalyaan Bhoopaalee, Praabhaatee Dakhanee, and Praabhaatee Bibhaas.
    Each Raaga offers a unique relationship to human moods and feelings. Another interesting aspect of Raagas is that there is a seasonal allocation as well as daily twenty-four hour time cycle allocation. For example, there are some morning Raagas, some evening Raagas, some afternoon Raagas, some night Raagas, and so on . Also, there are Raagas that are associated with seasons. For example, Malhaar and Megha Raagas, are sung in the rainy season, in the spring the Basant Raaga, etc. The reason is that human mind and heart undergo varying degrees of mood changes during a twenty-four hour time cycle as well as different seasons, therefore, certain Raagas are particularly suitable for certain time of the day and night as well as season. Dividing daily twenty-four hour timing cycle in eight Pahars and each Pahar in approximately three hour-period, the Raagas of each Pahar are as follows:

    • 6 AM - 9AM: Bilaaval, Devgandhaaree
    • 9 AM - 12 PM: Saarang, Suhee, Bilaaval, Gujree, Goaud, Todee
    • 12 PM - 3 PM: Wadhans, Maaroo, Dhanaasaree
    • 3 PM - 6 PM: Maanjh, Gauree, Tilang, Tukharee
    • 6 PM - 9 PM: Sri Raaga, Basant, Maalee Gauraa, Jaitsree, Kedaaraa, Kalyaan
    • 9 PM - 12 AM: Bihaagra, Nat Naraayan, Sorath, Malhaar, Kaanraa, Jaijawantee
    • 12 AM - 3 AM: No Raaga specified in the SGGS. The reason could be that this is the time to sleep!
    • 3AM - 6AM: Aasaa, Raamkalee, Bhairav, Parbhaatee
    Unfortunately, Kirtan today has been commercialized to such an extent that most Raagees (KirtanKirtan ourselves as envisioned by the fifth Guru, Sri Guru Arjan Dev Jee. Instead we hire the so called professionals to sing it for us. The results are in front of us. singers) are only focused and concerned with making quick money. This is commercialization and exploit of the faith. We all are to be blamed for this condition. Because, we do not perform


    Before Sri Guru Arjan Dev Jee started amateur class of Kirtan singers to perform Kirtan, professional singers (like nowadays) called "Rabbaabees" used to perform Kirtan for the Sangat (congregation) and the Guru. To cut the long story short, once these "Rabbaabees" went on strike, and thus denied to sing. It was that time Sri Guru Arjan Dev Jee started training the amateur class of Raagees to perform Kirtan. The sixth Guru (Sri Guru Hargobind Jee) started a new class of Raagees called "Dhaadee", who sang heroic deeds of old warriors. They thus inspired the Guru's soldiers. The name "Dhaadee" came from "Dhad", which is a relatively small handheld percussion drum.
    GHAR:
    It is a musical sign, used at the top of the Shabad in the SGGS. It gives a hint to Raagees as to what musical clef (beat) to sing the Shabad in. In other words, "Ghar" binds music and poetry in their metrical-form. There are up to seventeen "Ghar" mentioned in the SGGS. Musicologists have different interpretations of this term. But the consensus seems to be that it denotes the parts of a Taal (beat). Following is a list of seventeen Taals used in Indian Music with their respective "Ghar". A close observation of the following list indicates that the majority of the modern Raagees generally seem to sing only in the first three or four.

    • GHAR 1 — Daadraa Taal (There is 1 Taalee* and the Beat has 6 Maatraas**
    • GHAR 2 — Roopak Taal (There are 2 Taalees and the Beat has 7 Maatraas)
    • GHAR 3 — Teen Taal (There 3 Taalees and the Beat has 16 Maatraas)
    • GHAR 4 — Chaar Taal (There are 4 Taalees and the Beat has 12 Maatraas)
    • GHAR 5 — Panj Taal Swaaree (There are 5 Taalees and the Beat has 15 Maatraas)
    • GHAR 6 — Khatt Taal (There are 6 Taalees and the Beat has 18 Maatraas)
    • GHAR 7 — Matt (Ashat) Taal (There are 7 Taalees and the Beat has 21 Maatraas)
    • GHAR 8 — Asht Mangal Taal (There are 8 Taalees and the Beat has 22 Maatraas)
    • GHAR 9 — Mohinee Taal (There are 9 Taalees and the Beat has 23 Maatraas)
    • GHAR 10 — Braham Taal (There are 10 Taalees and the Beat has 28 Maatraas)
    • GHAR 11 — Rudra Taal (There are 11 Taalees and the Beat has 32 Maatraas)
    • GHAR 12 — Vishnu Taal (There are 12 Taalees and the Beat has 36 Maatraas)
    • GHAR 13 — Muchkund Taal (There are 13 Taalees and the Beat has 34 Maatraas)
    • GHAR 14 — Mahashanee Taal (There are 14 Taalees and the Beat has 42 Maatraas)
    • GHAR 15 — Mishr Baran Taal (There are 15 Taalees and the Beat has 47 Maatraas)
    • GHAR 16 — Kul Taal (There are 16 Taalees and the Beat has 42 Maatraas)
    • GHAR 17 — Characharee Taal (There are 17 Taalees and the Beat has 40 Maatraas)
    * Taalee is the pattern of clapping. Taals are typified by a particular pattern and number of claps.
    ** Maatraa is the beat, which may be subdivided if required.

    There are many other Taals that may or may not have the same number of Taalees and/or Maatraas. For example Punajabi Taal, Chhotee Teen Taal, and Thumri all have the same number of Taalees and Maatraas as the Teen Taal. Both the Jhap Taal and Sool Phaak Taal have 3 Taalees as in Teen Taal but only 10 Maatraas. Both Dhamar Taal and Chnachal Taal have 3 Taalees as in Teen Taal but have only 14 Maatras. Ik Taal has 4 Taalees and 12 Maatraas as in Chaar Taal. Aadaa Chautaalaa, Bhaan Matee Taal (Chaar Taal Dee Savaaree), Jagg Paal Taal, and Jai Taal all have 4 Taalees as in Chaar Taal but not the same Maatraas (14, 11, 11 and 13, respectively). Sikhar Taal has 3 Taalees as in Teen Taal but 17 Maatraas. Talwaaraa Taal has 2 Taalees as in Roopak Taal, but 8 Maatraas. Indra Taal has 6 Taalees as in Khatt Taal, but 19 Maatraas. Deep Chandee or Chaachar Taal and Jhumraa Taal have 3 Taalees as in Teen Taal, but 14 Maatraas, and so on. Evidently the Indian music has developed and expanded in such a disciplined way that it has Taals of a just a few Maatraas to many Maatraas.
    Not only music, Taal also pervades every movement of the entire Creation. Days, nights, weeks, months, years, seasons, movement of the planets in orbits, constant spinning of electrons around the center of the atom (called the nucleus where the protons and neutrons are located) etc. are a few reminders.
    VAAR AND DHUNI :
    There are 22 Vaaras included in the SGGS, 9 of them come with distinctive assigned traditional folk musical tunes (Dhuni) of their own as noted below.Thus, they have a simple rhythm or a pattern of a folk Taal (beat) with a wider simple and emotional appeal. Vaars are not assigned with any particular "Ghar" notation. They are accompanied by "Slokas" and "Paurees", and the essence of the Vaar lies in the "Pauree". They are generally intended to produce martial feelings.

    • Maanjh Kee Vaar Mahalaa 1 — Malak Mureed Tathaa Chandharaa Soheeaa kee Dhuni (sggs 137).
    • Gauree Kee Vaar Mahalaa 4 — Raai Kamaaldee Mojdee Kee Dhuni (sggs 318).
    • Aasaa Dee Vaar Mahalaa 1 — Tunde Asraaje Kee Dhuni (sggs 462).
    • Gujree Kee Vaar Mahalaa 3 — Sikandar Biraahim Kee Kee Dhuni (sggs 508).
    • Wadhans Kee Vaar Mahalaa 5 — Lalaan Bahreemaa Kee Dhuni (sggs 585).
    • Raamkalee Kee Vaar Mahalaa 3 — Jodhe Veere Poorvaanee Kee Dhuni (sggs 947).
    • Saarang Kee Vaar Mahalaa 5 — Raai Mahame Hasane Kee Dhuni (sggs 1237).
    • Malaar Kee Vaar Mahalaa 1 — Raanai Kailaas Tathaa Maalde Kee Dhuni (sggs 1278).
    • Kaanare Kee Vaar Mahalaa 5 — Moose Kee Dhuni (sggs 1312).
    Vaars are to be sung in appropriate Raaga and Dhuni indicated in the SGGS. For example, Maanjh Kee Vaar is to be sung in Raaga Maanjh accompanied by the Taala of "Malak Mureed Tathaa Chandharaa Soheeaa kee Dhuni". Unfortunately the art of traditional Dhunis mentioned in the SGGS appears to be dying out, and needs to be preserved by training youngsters.


    GHORIAN, ALAHUNIAN AND KARHALE:
    In addition to the classical music, the folk music (because of its wide appeal) is also given importance in the SGGS. In this regard, in addition to the Vaars listed above, there are some Shabads about the "Ghorian" and "Alahunian" etc. "Ghorian" Shabads are on marriage and other festive occasions. "Alahunian" Shabads are on death.
    Karhale is a type of the "Chhand". It also denotes a type of folk music the camel riders sing while traveling. The Gurbani has repeatedly compares our wandering minds with the camel as well. For example, see SGGS pages 234-235.
    PARTAAL:
    This is also a musical sign for the Ragees. Partaal means there are different Taals (beat) for the parts of the Shabad. In other words, Partaal means the parts of the Shabad should be sung in different Taalas and tempo. In the SGGS, there are 49 Shabads in Partaal set to different "Ghar".
    SUDHANG:
    This is also a musical sign for the Ragees. This term appears once in the SGGS (page 369, Aasaa Raaga). Essentially it conveys direction to Raagees to sing the Shabad in its pure form. For example, when the Shabad is in Aasaa Raaga, then it must be sung in that Raaga (and Ghar).
    RAHAOU:
    The word "Rahaou" marks "pause", and denotes main theme line. In other words, the verse of "Rahaou" contains the basis, essence or central thought of the Shabad. Whilst, the remaining lines of the Shabad are considered an exposition of the verse of "Rahaou". That's why Raagees use it as "Asthaaee" (first or the main part of the music composition) and thereby sing it repeatedly. In some Shabads, there are more than one "Rahaou", such as Rahaaou 1, Rahaaou 2, Rahaaou 3, Rahaaou 4, etc.(for example, see Pages 26-26, 154, 96-97, 899 of the SGGS). This indicates introduction of a new thought. There is no "Rahaou" in the "Slokas". In regard to the Vaars of Bhai Gurdaas Jee, the last line of the "Pauree" is considered to contain the main thought.
    IKPADAA, DUPADAA, TIPADAA, CHAARPADE, CHHAND, CH HAKAA, ASHATPADEE, SAVAYYAS:
    As the name implies, "Ikpadaa" denotes the Shabads of one verse. When "Ikpadaa" shabads have two verses, they are sung as one verse. "Dupadaa" are the Shabads that contain, besides the Rahaou lines, two stanzas. "Tipadaa" are the Shabads of three stanzas. Similarly, the "Chaupade" are the Shabads of four verses, "Chhands" are the Shabads of six lines, and "Ashatpadee" are the Shabads of eight verses. "Chhhakaa" is of six Padaas. Someplaces both "Chaupade Dupade" appear together (for example, see SGGS page 185). It means that particular Shabad contains "Chaupade" following "Dupade". The "Savayyas" are the compositionsof praise.
    SALOKA:
    A form of verse or stanza, generally a two-liner form allowing a variety of metrical arrangement.
    PAUREE:
    "Paurees" are a form of stanzas. They also contain the essence of the Vaars. Literally meaning ladder or rung, it is a form of stanza adopted for Vaars. They generally consist of 6 to 8 lines each. Stanzas of Baabaa Nanak's Japuji are also traditionally called Paurees. Traditionally, Raagees are supposed to conclude Kirtan with singing of a "Pauree" from Raagas Bilaaval, Kaanraa etc.
    GAATHAA, FUNHE, AND CHAUBOLE:
    Funhe is a form of the Chhand (for example, see SGGS page 1361). Chaubole is also a form of the Chhand (for example, see SGGS page 1363 where it has 11 verses). Gaathaa denotes composition in an ancient language (mixture of Sanskrit, Paalee and other languages). Many Buddhist scriptures are written in this language (for example, see page 1360 of SGGS).
    SOLAHE:
    "Solahe" is the Shabad containing generally sixteen stanzas (for example, see SGGS page 1021). They are only found in Raaga Maaroo. There is no "Rahaaou" in them. Also, they follow "Ashatpadees".
    MAHALAA:
    Initially called Adi Granth, the contents of the SGGS (1,430 pages) contains Bani of the Gurus (Guru Nanak Dev, Guru Angad Dev, Guru Amar Das, Guru Raam Das, Guru Arjan Dev, Guru Tegh Bahadur, and one Sloka of Guru Gobind Singh Jee), and Hindu saints (Brahmans and Soodras) and Muslim Sufis. These 15 saints were Kabeer, Nam Dev, Ravidas, Sheikh Farid, Trilochan, Dhanna, Beni, Bhikan, Sur Daas, Parmanand, Pipa, Raamanand, Sadhana and Sain. It also contains the hymns of eleven Bhattas and Bards, they were Mathuraa, Jalap, Harbans, Talya, Salya, Bhal, Kulh Sahar, Nal, Kirat, Sadrang and Gayand. In addition, it also consists of the hymns of Mardaanaa (the minstrel of Baabaa Nanak), Raamkalee Sad by Sunder , and Vaar of Sattaa and Balwand.
    The word "Mahalaa" at the top of the Shabad identifies which Guru is the author. For example, "Mahalaa 1" identifies the first Guru, "Mahalaa 2" identifies the second Guru, "Mahalaa 3" identifies the third Guru, "Mahalaa 4 " identifies the fourth Guru, "Mahalaa 5" identifies the fifth Guru, "Mahalaa 9" identifies the ninth Guru. This notation appears with the Bani of the first five Gurus and the ninth Guru only.
    PATTEE:
    Literally "Pattee" means a writing board, slate or notebook (Fattee). When it appears at the top of the Shabad, it's also used to impart the Divine Teachings in the order of Varanmaalaa (alphabet), for example see page 432 of the SGGS.
    — T. Singh
    Sikhism - Reflections On Gurbani
     
    • Like Like x 3
  8. dalsingh

    dalsingh
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2006
    Messages:
    1,064
    Likes Received:
    233
    Gyani ji, do you know where dhadi fits into all of this? I noticed that it has certain rhythms that are re-occuring and these extend to popular Panjabi culture, as they are sometimes heard in commercial Panjabi songs.
     
  9. GillAUS

    GillAUS
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2009
    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    30
    Brother,

    If there was any doubt as to Chandi di Vaar's authorship, why do we recite the beginning of it for our daily Ardaas?

    As for 'mythological events' - the story of Bhagat Prahlad has been relayed in Sri Guru Granth Sahib. Is this exaggerated, without any basis?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
    Expand Collapse
    Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
    Mentor Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    Messages:
    7,623
    Likes Received:
    14,190
    1.Lots of things that are done as "habitual" in our Gurdwaras are not necessarily accordign to Gurmatt...example lighting of ghee lamps/jyots have no spiritual sanction/benefit...but still beign done almost."religiously"....even in Harmandir Sahib...
    Placing of "Imaginary pictures" of Gurus sahibs at Patna Sahib Takhat in front of SGGS..is another such anti-gurmatt practise that is clearly not sanctioned by Gurbani....yet its done..

    The Beautiful thing baout SIKHISM is that we as the GURU KHALSA PANTH have been SANCTIONED by the GURU to...carry out modifications to our dialy Maryadas/Rehits ..WITH the PROVISO...that ALL MUST BE BASED on the GURBANI of SGGS. Any thing thats ULTRA VIRES the SGGS.....muts be discarded. period.

    Having said that...even the SGGS bir had an additional POEM called Raagmala added to it surreptiously. Its NOT GURBANI, it fails to follow the rules of Gurbani such as the Numbering system Nanak Signature, or any spiritual sikhis etc etc. So the argument that..why we read Raagmala..is the Same as why we read Vaar Bahgauti Ji at beginning of Ardass. Vaar bahgauti Ji and Chandi Di Vaar are in a separate Granth...no proof that Guru Gobind Singh ji wrote it/OR DIDNT ?? ..or that there is no adulteration.... Just like the Raagmala CANNOT be AUTHENTICATED as GURBANI simply due to its presence in SGGS BIRS..the Chandi di vaar cannot be authenticated simply by the Bhagautee paurre in ardass...Anyway the ARDASS is made by the Guru Khalsa panth and it can be changed acordingly..a decison the PANTH muct make at the appropriate time. Until then we all READ the ardass on a "AS IS BASIS". Period. All this and more has already been discussed ad nausem in dsm granth threads...no need to elaborate much here. The JURY is still OUT on Dsm granth/chandi di vaar etc.

    Lots of MYTHS...already POPULAR FOLKLORE at time of GURU SAHIBS is MENTIONED in GURBANI to....PASS ON...RELAY the DIVINE MESSAGE of GURU JI.
    THAT MESSAGE is the CORE..not the MYTHS/STORIES..etc...and the CORE MESSAGE is HUKM RAZAEE CHALLANNA, NAAM JAPPNNA etc etc etc.
    Bhagat Prehlaad story is mentioned..and GURU JIS CORE MESSAGE to us is NAAM JAPPNNA at ALL COSTS. ( to beleive that this means that a Harnaksh type of creature will come rushing to our AID is ??? i am at a loss for words !!! The ENTIRE COMPLETE SIKH HISTORY..beginning in 1469 - to PRESENT DAY....not a SINGLE SUCH INSTANCE occurred...NO "Harnaksh" came out of the Burning FIRES under GURU ARJUN JI to douse the Flames..No Harnaksh came out of the WALLS that BRICKED ALIVE the Baba Zorawar Singh Baba fateh Singh....no Hranaksh came out and laid waste the Hordes surrounding Baba Ajit Singh baba Jhujaar Singh on the Battlefields of Chakmaur...NO Harnaksh came out to DESTROY ...Ahmad Shaha Abdali....or...INDIRA GANDHIS ARMIES demolishing the Akal takhat....BUT the FIRST PART of HAR JUG JUG bhagtaan dee Rakhda aiyah is TRUE..and has been Shown TRUE in EVERY SINGLE action from 1469....Har took care of GURU ARJUN JI...thats why he could sit so calmly and recite..TERA BHANNAMEETHA LAGGEH..NAAM PADARETH NANAK MANGGEH - THAT is the DIVINE MESSAGE we are to IMBIBE..not wait for some "harnaksh" to appear and save us ??...The Bhagat Prehllad story..has a MEANING..its to take the approach of GURU ARJUN JI SAHIB..just like all the Hundreds of thousands of SIKH SHAHEEDS did indeed take..on the way to MARTYRDOM..smiling and happy....NONE of them waited with baited breath..for "harnaksh" to come rushing out to save their LIVES !!!..simply because that is a MYTH !!! PROVEN time and again..and wll remain a MYTH.

    Our GURBANI teaches us to Follow his HUKM...and that we do with all our MIGHT.
    IF GURBANI tells us to..Control our KAAM/LUST..we DO THAT...simply because GURBANI tells us...and certainly NOT because we are afraid that we may too end up with a THOUSAND FEMALE SEX ORGANS on our body...as is said to have happend to the "LORD" SIVA ?? when He violated a Rishis beautiful wife ??? THAT too is a Popular MYTH..and it was FOLKLORE..and Guru Ji is just using it as an ILLUSTRATION !!! It is certianly NOT the TRUTH as its agaisnt Gods LAWS !!! OF what practical purpose are a thousand sex organs for ?? GURBANI is 1000% PRACTICAL, LOGICAL. TRUTH and nothign but the TRUTH, and cannot be challenged on any count...WHY we insist on dragging its pristine contents into such MYTHOLIGICAL NONSENSE whcih cannot be defended in any way except.."blind faith..annhi shardha..just beleive it types of arguments others use so routinely.

    No offense to anyone...my own views striclty based on my own understandign of Gurbani and its Divine Message...
     
    • Like Like x 4
  11. ranghi29

    ranghi29
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2008
    Messages:
    34
    Likes Received:
    15
    I kinda didn't get what your saying.....But i would like to ask are you saying we don't need Chandi di Vaar..:shock::shock:
     
  12. Hardip Singh

    Hardip Singh India
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2009
    Messages:
    323
    Likes Received:
    501
    Yes, Of-course. It has nothing to do with the great principals of SIKHI
     
  13. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
    Expand Collapse
    Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
    Mentor Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    Messages:
    7,623
    Likes Received:
    14,190
    What I am saying is this.

    1. SGGS is COMPLETE. There is nothing wanting..everything is there. So there is no truth in those who say .." we need Chandi dee Vaar..because it is to infuse Martial arts/feelings of valour/battle preparedness/beer rass etc etc...and all THAT is NOT ENOUGH IN SGGS ??
    WHEN GURU NANAK JI was "GURU"....His SIKHS did not seek anything elsewhere. PERIOD.
    Exact same...for all the GURUS....even wehn the GURU was a "child" of 8..( Guru Harkishan Ji )....the GURU was Sarab kala SAMPOORAN. No one even remotely dare suggest that since the Guru is a mere CHILD..we "need" advise from someone older..matured ??
    The 9 Year OLD GOBIND RAI was competent to LEAD all SIKHS without any need of any outside help.
    NOW its the SGGS that occupies the THRONE of "GURU Nanak-Gobind Singh"....and its BLASPHEMY for anyoen to suggest we "need" OUTSIDE help/advise/beer rass/whatever as the SGGS cannot/is unable to FULFILL OUR NEEDS ??????.

    AS "Literature"...its perfectly all right to read Chandi dee vaar....Bachittar natak....as is of course Shakespeare..or Karl Marx or Sigmund Freud...the MORE one reads the better !!!..BUT the Bottom Line is ONLY SGGS is the GURU..and no equals.

    BTW I read Chandi dee vaar...its a thrilling piece of wrok..superb mastery of words..one can HEAR the CLANG of weapons....and cries of valour...shrieking demons and all.....FANTASTIC !!! I enjoy it so often....sometimes late at night...Uts a masterpirce fo Indian literature.....BUT its NOT GURBANI equal of SGGS...which is Khasam ki Bani...

    Thats all. Hope all is clarified.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  14. dalsingh

    dalsingh
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2006
    Messages:
    1,064
    Likes Received:
    233
    I think another point people need to understand regarding ChandiDi Vaar is that the bit that we recite in our ardas corresponds is an opening invocation, that is independent of the main tale of Durga.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  15. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
    Expand Collapse
    Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
    Mentor Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    Messages:
    7,623
    Likes Received:
    14,190
    Yes dalsingh ji....and that Paurree may have been "added to the main CDV to "aithenticate" it just like Ragmala was added to SGGS. Sikhs have always had powerful enemies and saboteurs who are adept at such subterfuge...look at how the myriads fo babas and snats deras etc are busy as bees adulterating and dissing Sikhi/Gurmatt and taking away peopel from GURBANI towards their own deh worship.
    The person who recently desecrated the Peerha of SGGS in harmandir Sahib is a Radha soami follower whose room has the photo of the RS Guru placed on Pillows exactly like the SGGs is parkashed...so that incident is not so innocent anymore...
    WE must eb ever vigilant and alwasy at the service of SGGS..the One and ONLY GURU. Period. No ifs and no buts and no maybes...and True SERVICE of SGGS is UNDERSTYANDING GURBANI and follwoing it..not just matha teking and bowing.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  16. BhagatSingh

    BhagatSingh Canada
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer sikhiart.com

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2006
    Messages:
    2,912
    Likes Received:
    1,640
    x 10^99
    couldn't have used a better term for taht myself.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
    Expand Collapse
    Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
    Mentor Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    Messages:
    7,623
    Likes Received:
    14,190
    Veer Ji,

    A Vaar is a POEM specifically meant to be SUNG according to a DHUNNI...with Dhadd Sarangee and in a Chorus and such an atmosphere creates and maintains Valour, Beer Rass, raises the Spirits. Dhadees stand and sing...another unique stance only for Vaars.
    Guru Hargobind Ji sahib popularised these Vaars by choosing the appropriate Dhunnis and Sung them...to prepare the Sikhs to FIGHT agaisnt INJUSTICE.

    A Vaar cannot be sung according to Traditional Raag/music by musicians on vaja tabla etc.
     
    • Like Like x 4

Share This Page