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Caste System In Sikhism: Why?
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<blockquote data-quote="Manisha" data-source="post: 102113" data-attributes="member: 8631"><p><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Gurfateh Gyani Ji..</span></span></strong></p><p> </p><p><strong><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"><span style="color: blue"><u>Now when this student said:</u></span></span></strong></p><p></p><p> </p><p><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">We’re referring back to what we said <em><u>1</u></em> of our main problem is – elders’ influence on youths.. Perfect example.. Do you know the student’s family? As, you said yourself you are an elder – but far from what these illusioned elders are; so I wondered what exactly your reply was..? Forgive me if I’m in wrong, but I would’ve corrected this young girl on <em><u><span style="color: red">everything</span></u> </em>she said..</span></span></strong></p><p> </p><p> </p><p><strong><u><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"><span style="color: blue">Firstly when saying:</span></span></u></strong></p><p></p><p><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">She should’ve been told that surname is just a name.. It doesn’t define how “high and mighty, wealthy” you are – because all this is earned in life.. <em><u><span style="color: red">ALTHOUGH</span></u></em>, the purpose of human life on earth is <em><u><span style="color: red">not</span></u></em> this point.. She’s born with the surname but <span style="color: red">IT</span> does <em><u><span style="color: red">NOT</span></u></em> define her in any means!..</span></span></strong></p><p> </p><p> </p><p><strong><u><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"><span style="color: blue">Also:</span></span></u></strong></p><p></p><p><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">You don’t <span style="color: red"><em><u>become</u></em> Kaur</span> just like that.. Just because your parents have <em><u><span style="color: red">named</span></u></em> you this.. You <span style="color: red"><em><u>EARN</u></em> </span>this beautiful name – along with Singh – by becoming a true follower in the <em><u><span style="color: red">steps</span></u></em> of Guru Ji..</span></span></strong></p><p> </p><p> </p><p></p><p><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"><span style="color: red">Do indeed ask</span>.. May I predict the answer to be along the lines of “My father/grandfather gave me this name.. I was born with this name.. This is who I am”?</span></span></strong></p><p> </p><p> </p><p><strong><u><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"><span style="color: blue">Secondly:</span></span></u></strong></p><p></p><p><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Again, I believe the <span style="color: red">grandfather </span>has influenced the child’s thought to this.. But before I comment further on this, how <em><u><span style="color: red">did</span></u></em> they change it <em><u><span style="color: red">if</span></u></em> they</span></span></strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"> <strong>did at all?</strong></span></span></p><p> </p><p> </p><p><strong><u><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"><span style="color: blue">Thirdly:</span></span></u></strong></p><p></p><p><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Well youths <em><u><span style="color: red">DO</span></u></em> in fact become <em><u><span style="color: red">very</span></u></em> influenced due to internet resources, so look it up! It’s as if she’s expecting the reply of “You know, <em><u><span style="color: red">those sort</span></u></em> of people” <span style="color: red">*Sigh indeed*</span></span></span></strong></p><p> </p><p> </p><p><strong><u><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"><span style="color: blue">And Fourthly/Finally:</span></span></u></strong></p><p></p><p><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Now <em><u><span style="color: red">THAT!</span></u></em> Question has <em><u><span style="color: red">totally gobsmacked</span></u></em></span></span></strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"> <strong>me! <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite9" alt=":eek:" title="Eek! :eek:" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":eek:" /></strong></span></span></p><p> </p><p><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"><span style="color: red">BUT</span>, well, Gyani Ji, you simply say the <span style="color: red"><em><u>ONLY</u></em> </span>answer for that:</span></span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">“How did <em><u><span style="color: red">our own</span></u></em> Guru Ji’s identify a Ravidassi, Chamar (same thing), Jatt, Tharkan ect? Well, They identified each and every one as………… <u><span style="color: red">EQUAL!</span></u> (Duh)” <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></span></span></strong></p><p> </p><p><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">I guess the<span style="color: red"><u><em> best</em></u></span> way to answer all the “<span style="color: red">foolish</span>” questions by people of this age (and before), is: To simply <span style="color: red">refer to <em><u>Gurbani</u></em></span> (Word of God and Guru Ji’s from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji) to teach them <span style="color: red"><em><u>FACTS NOT OPINIONS</u></em>/<em><u>FALSE INFO!</u></em></span></span></span></strong></p><p> </p><p> </p><p><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Gyani Ji..</span></span></strong></p><p></p><p><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">I’m not sure how you mean.. Our Gurdwaras are not like that :-S.. There are symbols inside and outside of the Gurdwara – to define what religion/(caste I think too) one is.. It may sound stupid, but because I do not mind which Gurdwara I go to (because at the end of the day, so to speak, I matha tekh to Guru Granth Sahib Ji and sit listening to stories of Guru Ji’s, shabads, kirtans, ect – after all that <em><u>is</u></em> the <em><u>point!</u></em>) I never saw this difference – the way in which Gurdwaras are “allocated” – this was until I went to an Akhand Paath where my cousin said “did you know this is a so and so Gurdwara because of that symbol?” Hmm.. Well I <span style="color: red">don’t care</span> <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></span></span></strong></p><p> </p><p> </p><p></p><p><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">I think to a certain extent this modern age is slowly but <span style="color: red">surely allowing/encouraging</span> inter-faith/”caste” (even) marriages – I guess indeed they must be the sort of people who don’t care much for this..</span></span></strong></p><p> </p><p> </p><p></p><p><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Nobody can tell anyone <span style="color: red">what</span> they <em><span style="color: red">“<u>are</u>”</span> </em>or even <span style="color: red">force</span> anyone to be someone they’re not.. Like I said my family tried to segregate myself from others by forcing the caste system upon me and trying to <span style="color: red">engrave</span> this into my mind.. <span style="color: red">Into me</span>.. Didn’t want me to make friends with certain castes even! But it <span style="color: red">didn’t work</span> <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> Because <span style="color: red">I </span>make the decisions concerning <span style="color: red">me</span> and the way <span style="color: red">I want</span> to and <span style="color: red">should</span> live my life..</span></span></strong></p><p> </p><p><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">I’ll be <span style="color: red">truthful</span> however, like when I mentioned when I was younger – we’re going back 5 years perhaps, I did <span style="color: red">“brag”</span> I guess – but what <em><u><span style="color: red">only</span></u></em> influenced me however, was the fact that all the higher castes had formed this <span style="color: red">“CLAN”</span></span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">and I thought well why can’t <em><u><span style="color: red">we</span></u></em> do this too..? But then (thankfully) I <span style="color: red">gave this up</span> because I always knew in my heart it was wrong but thought that was the best way to <span style="color: red">retaliate</span>.. I do hope <em><u>Guru Ji</u></em> forgives me; and also because of the <span style="color: red">“CLAN<em><u>S</u></em>”</span> that just seem to be irritatingly, stubbornly, never-ending! Lol.. Atleast <span style="color: red">I</span> can say I can change for <span style="color: red">good</span> purposes..</span></span></strong></p><p> </p><p><strong><u><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"><span style="color: blue">Anyway.. An answer to:</span></span></u></strong></p><p></p><p> </p><p><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">It doesn’t matter <em><u><span style="color: red">WHAT</span></u></em> you are in terms of whether your name’s this and that.. It’s nothing and you can refer back to my 4th point about the girl..</span></span></strong></p><p> </p><p><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">However, <em><u><span style="color: red">WHO</span></u></em> you are is much more important<span style="color: red">! </span>For example, <em><u><span style="color: red">what</span></u> </em>you are could mean you’re wealthy <span style="color: red">BUT</span> <em><u><span style="color: red">who</span></u></em> you are is another thing altogether – it could be <em><u><span style="color: red">HOW you use WHAT you are</span></u></em>.. – My example, when we die, Waheguru’s not going to care about the <span style="color: red">materialism</span> things of this world i.e. money – but if somebody contributed this wealth to <em><u><span style="color: red">help people</span></u></em> in need – then that’s one of the things that Waheguru will care about.. That’s not the whole thing, but a mere example..</span></span></strong></p><p> </p><p> </p><p></p><p><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">:yes: On a<span style="color: red"> final note</span>, Gyani Ji, I completely agree.. But how do we KILL this? And I do feel the need to state, that because your thinking is completely right and because you are older than lets say me, isn’t it so, <em><u><span style="color: red">you’re</span></u></em> more likely to be heard than <em><u><span style="color: red">me</span></u></em>? I’m sure you already are but do continue to encourage this ji.. </span></span></strong></p><p> </p><p><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Hope I haven’t said anything out of line.. WJKK WJKF</span></span></strong></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Manisha, post: 102113, member: 8631"] [B][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Gurfateh Gyani Ji..[/FONT][/COLOR][/B] [B][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=blue][U]Now when this student said:[/U][/COLOR][/FONT][/B] [B][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][/COLOR][/B] [B][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]We’re referring back to what we said [I][U]1[/U][/I] of our main problem is – elders’ influence on youths.. Perfect example.. Do you know the student’s family? As, you said yourself you are an elder – but far from what these illusioned elders are; so I wondered what exactly your reply was..? Forgive me if I’m in wrong, but I would’ve corrected this young girl on [I][U][COLOR=red]everything[/COLOR][/U] [/I]she said..[/FONT][/COLOR][/B] [B][U][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=blue]Firstly when saying:[/COLOR][/FONT][/U][/B] [B][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][/COLOR][/B] [B][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]She should’ve been told that surname is just a name.. It doesn’t define how “high and mighty, wealthy” you are – because all this is earned in life.. [I][U][COLOR=red]ALTHOUGH[/COLOR][/U][/I], the purpose of human life on earth is [I][U][COLOR=red]not[/COLOR][/U][/I] this point.. She’s born with the surname but [COLOR=red]IT[/COLOR] does [I][U][COLOR=red]NOT[/COLOR][/U][/I] define her in any means!..[/FONT][/COLOR][/B] [B][U][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=blue]Also:[/COLOR][/FONT][/U][/B] [B][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][/COLOR][/B] [B][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]You don’t [COLOR=red][I][U]become[/U][/I] Kaur[/COLOR] just like that.. Just because your parents have [I][U][COLOR=red]named[/COLOR][/U][/I] you this.. You [COLOR=red][I][U]EARN[/U][/I] [/COLOR]this beautiful name – along with Singh – by becoming a true follower in the [I][U][COLOR=red]steps[/COLOR][/U][/I] of Guru Ji..[/FONT][/COLOR][/B] [B][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][/COLOR][/B] [B][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=red]Do indeed ask[/COLOR].. May I predict the answer to be along the lines of “My father/grandfather gave me this name.. I was born with this name.. This is who I am”?[/FONT][/COLOR][/B] [B][U][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=blue]Secondly:[/COLOR][/FONT][/U][/B] [B][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][/COLOR][/B] [B][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Again, I believe the [COLOR=red]grandfather [/COLOR]has influenced the child’s thought to this.. But before I comment further on this, how [I][U][COLOR=red]did[/COLOR][/U][/I] they change it [I][U][COLOR=red]if[/COLOR][/U][/I] they[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana] [B]did at all?[/B][/FONT][/COLOR] [B][U][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=blue]Thirdly:[/COLOR][/FONT][/U][/B] [B][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][/COLOR][/B] [B][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Well youths [I][U][COLOR=red]DO[/COLOR][/U][/I] in fact become [I][U][COLOR=red]very[/COLOR][/U][/I] influenced due to internet resources, so look it up! It’s as if she’s expecting the reply of “You know, [I][U][COLOR=red]those sort[/COLOR][/U][/I] of people” [COLOR=red]*Sigh indeed*[/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR][/B] [B][U][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=blue]And Fourthly/Finally:[/COLOR][/FONT][/U][/B] [B][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][/COLOR][/B] [B][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Now [I][U][COLOR=red]THAT![/COLOR][/U][/I] Question has [I][U][COLOR=red]totally gobsmacked[/COLOR][/U][/I][/FONT][/COLOR][/B][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana] [B]me! :eek:[/B][/FONT][/COLOR] [B][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=red]BUT[/COLOR], well, Gyani Ji, you simply say the [COLOR=red][I][U]ONLY[/U][/I] [/COLOR]answer for that:[/FONT][/COLOR][/B] [B][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]“How did [I][U][COLOR=red]our own[/COLOR][/U][/I] Guru Ji’s identify a Ravidassi, Chamar (same thing), Jatt, Tharkan ect? Well, They identified each and every one as………… [U][COLOR=red]EQUAL![/COLOR][/U] (Duh)” :-)[/FONT][/COLOR][/B] [B][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]I guess the[COLOR=red][U][I] best[/I][/U][/COLOR] way to answer all the “[COLOR=red]foolish[/COLOR]” questions by people of this age (and before), is: To simply [COLOR=red]refer to [I][U]Gurbani[/U][/I][/COLOR] (Word of God and Guru Ji’s from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji) to teach them [COLOR=red][I][U]FACTS NOT OPINIONS[/U][/I]/[I][U]FALSE INFO![/U][/I][/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR][/B] [B][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Gyani Ji..[/FONT][/COLOR][/B] [B][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][/COLOR][/B] [B][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]I’m not sure how you mean.. Our Gurdwaras are not like that :-S.. There are symbols inside and outside of the Gurdwara – to define what religion/(caste I think too) one is.. It may sound stupid, but because I do not mind which Gurdwara I go to (because at the end of the day, so to speak, I matha tekh to Guru Granth Sahib Ji and sit listening to stories of Guru Ji’s, shabads, kirtans, ect – after all that [I][U]is[/U][/I] the [I][U]point![/U][/I]) I never saw this difference – the way in which Gurdwaras are “allocated” – this was until I went to an Akhand Paath where my cousin said “did you know this is a so and so Gurdwara because of that symbol?” Hmm.. Well I [COLOR=red]don’t care[/COLOR] :-)[/FONT][/COLOR][/B] [B][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]I think to a certain extent this modern age is slowly but [COLOR=red]surely allowing/encouraging[/COLOR] inter-faith/”caste” (even) marriages – I guess indeed they must be the sort of people who don’t care much for this..[/FONT][/COLOR][/B] [B][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][/COLOR][/B] [B][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Nobody can tell anyone [COLOR=red]what[/COLOR] they [I][COLOR=red]“[U]are[/U]”[/COLOR] [/I]or even [COLOR=red]force[/COLOR] anyone to be someone they’re not.. Like I said my family tried to segregate myself from others by forcing the caste system upon me and trying to [COLOR=red]engrave[/COLOR] this into my mind.. [COLOR=red]Into me[/COLOR].. Didn’t want me to make friends with certain castes even! But it [COLOR=red]didn’t work[/COLOR] :-) Because [COLOR=red]I [/COLOR]make the decisions concerning [COLOR=red]me[/COLOR] and the way [COLOR=red]I want[/COLOR] to and [COLOR=red]should[/COLOR] live my life..[/FONT][/COLOR][/B] [B][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]I’ll be [COLOR=red]truthful[/COLOR] however, like when I mentioned when I was younger – we’re going back 5 years perhaps, I did [COLOR=red]“brag”[/COLOR] I guess – but what [I][U][COLOR=red]only[/COLOR][/U][/I] influenced me however, was the fact that all the higher castes had formed this [COLOR=red]“CLAN”[/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]and I thought well why can’t [I][U][COLOR=red]we[/COLOR][/U][/I] do this too..? But then (thankfully) I [COLOR=red]gave this up[/COLOR] because I always knew in my heart it was wrong but thought that was the best way to [COLOR=red]retaliate[/COLOR].. I do hope [I][U]Guru Ji[/U][/I] forgives me; and also because of the [COLOR=red]“CLAN[I][U]S[/U][/I]”[/COLOR] that just seem to be irritatingly, stubbornly, never-ending! Lol.. Atleast [COLOR=red]I[/COLOR] can say I can change for [COLOR=red]good[/COLOR] purposes..[/FONT][/COLOR][/B] [B][U][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=blue]Anyway.. An answer to:[/COLOR][/FONT][/U][/B] [B][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][/COLOR][/B] [B][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]It doesn’t matter [I][U][COLOR=red]WHAT[/COLOR][/U][/I] you are in terms of whether your name’s this and that.. It’s nothing and you can refer back to my 4th point about the girl..[/FONT][/COLOR][/B] [B][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]However, [I][U][COLOR=red]WHO[/COLOR][/U][/I] you are is much more important[COLOR=red]! [/COLOR]For example, [I][U][COLOR=red]what[/COLOR][/U] [/I]you are could mean you’re wealthy [COLOR=red]BUT[/COLOR] [I][U][COLOR=red]who[/COLOR][/U][/I] you are is another thing altogether – it could be [I][U][COLOR=red]HOW you use WHAT you are[/COLOR][/U][/I].. – My example, when we die, Waheguru’s not going to care about the [COLOR=red]materialism[/COLOR] things of this world i.e. money – but if somebody contributed this wealth to [I][U][COLOR=red]help people[/COLOR][/U][/I] in need – then that’s one of the things that Waheguru will care about.. That’s not the whole thing, but a mere example..[/FONT][/COLOR][/B] [B][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][/COLOR][/B] [B][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]:yes: On a[COLOR=red] final note[/COLOR], Gyani Ji, I completely agree.. But how do we KILL this? And I do feel the need to state, that because your thinking is completely right and because you are older than lets say me, isn’t it so, [I][U][COLOR=red]you’re[/COLOR][/U][/I] more likely to be heard than [I][U][COLOR=red]me[/COLOR][/U][/I]? I’m sure you already are but do continue to encourage this ji.. [/FONT][/COLOR][/B] [B][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Hope I haven’t said anything out of line.. WJKK WJKF[/FONT][/COLOR][/B] [/QUOTE]
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Caste System In Sikhism: Why?
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