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Can Sikhs Go Out with People That Are Not of Their Race or Religion?

Discussion in 'Sikh Youth' started by Dawnnymph, Apr 19, 2005.

  1. Dawnnymph

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    I am American and my boyfriend is a sikh, and he told me that your are not supposed to, or his mom is like that...so is that the way its supposed to be?
     
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  3. Arvind

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    Dear friend,

    Sikhism says - Manas ki jaat sabey eke pehchanbo. This means - Consider Mankind as a single race.

    Unfortunately, whoever said those words to you havent understood this basic principle of Sikhism then.

    Personally, I keep away from people with habits of smoking etc. as Sikhs are supposed to stay away from intoxicants. And we know, company reflects an individual person too.

    Hope this helps.

    Regards.
     
  4. Sher Singh

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    As i have been taught over and over, Sikhism is 100% against dating. We are supposed to have one person in our life, and thats a wife. Dating is out of the question. While dating, many people have been through the stages of hugging, kissing, moslty intimacy. Sikhi says to control our Kaam, or sexual desire, thus if we date it increases our Kaam which we need to control. In brief, Sikhism is against dating.
     
  5. Arvind

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    Sher veer,

    Just to note, the query is about 'going out with people (non-sikhs)', not about dating.

    Regards.
     
  6. ravisingh

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    Personally, I do not see an issue in people of different faiths dating. There certainly is not any direct guidance as such from the sikh rehat or the scriptures. Often with Sikhism punjabi culture is seen as interwined with the religion --of course this is completely incorrect. What your boyfriend is describing is a sort of racism that is unfortunately rampant among punjabis

    On the other hand, being a minority culture, there is always a tendency to want to protect it. Such protectionism is common among many minority cultural groups. In my humble opinion, this does not excuse it but I hope that it at least serves as an explanation. In most cases there will be an immense social stigma for the child not to date outside of the community (or to date at all). The fact that traditionally parents chose mates for their children is also partly to blame for the bias against dating. This is of course terribly old fashioned (it is very rare for parents to choose their child's mate these days) however, again, I hope that it serves as a sort of explanation for where he may be coming from.

    take care,

    Ravi Singh
     
  7. Sher Singh

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    going out can/does mean dating as well. There are 2 "going out's". 1 being "hey mom, im going out to the movie" and the other is, "im going out with my bf/gf". what i was trying to state was the 2nd "going out".
     
  8. UnstoppableSingh

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    Most Asian cultures (Japanese, Chinese, Indian and so on) are against dating. Note i'm only speaking on a Cultural level because this is the issue since almost all religions are against dating or as Sher Singh wrote "going out" 2nd version.

    Dating wasn't even part of European history till the late 16 and 17th centuries. And even then it was called Courting (getting to know a person before marriage. Marriage was still the end result of Courting).

    Dating is a total Western twist on the old morals of Courting.

    Now back to the original question (sorry i love history so i always refer to it when i get the chance). What your trying to fight is Punjabi culture which is very Anti-Dating. Heck they don't even like women and men touching till marriage. So by that standard Dating is a huge NO-NO.

    As for Sikhism. Sher Singh said it best...... dating = Lustful thoughts which produce bad deeds which in turn bring the slow degration of the Soul. Sikhism looks at this on a thought level rather then the basic physical affects. Intimacy is the main reason we date. Intimacy makes a person naturally think lustful thoughts (and yes i'm even a victim of this). A Sikh tries to live so that one day we stop being slaves to the 5 vices and in turn they become ours. This battle goes on 24/7 try fighting the urge.
     
  9. S|kH

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    I agree with Ravi Singh ji, 100%.

    Personally, I wish you the best of luck, and I will tell you that dating is allowed.

    The above reasons for outlawing dating, are very very thinly stretched out quotes that people intrepret for their own cause. I am not saying that they are wrong, but, Sikhi does not speak on dating. It was not common culture at all to date before marriage back in the day. When Sikhi speaks and states that "do not touch women other than your wife", one must take into account that the only sort of pre-marriage relationships with the opposite sex were along the lines of rape. (once again, back in the day). They did not date, and they did not court, all marriages were set up by either parents or some sort of leader. When Sikhi outlaws lust, it does so because at that time, Rape was prominent, and was easily commitable.

    Can you date and not have a relationship that is about sex, or even withold from sex till marriage? I would certainly say so, and I've seen people do it numerous times before, you just both have to be aware and careful. The ones that say dating = lust, are also people who've most likely not dating because they think its wrong.

    Sikhi never totally speaks on dating, what it does speak on, is lust. Can you have lustful intentions with your girlfriend? Yes. Can you have sole lustful intentions with your wife? Yes. Can you rape your wife? Yes.
    Does it make it all right just because you are married? No.
    Sikhi speaks explicitly on lust, can you imply that towards dating? Yes you can, but once again it is implied, as per ones own intrepretation. You can also easily apply it to marriage. Perhaps this is a more liberal meaning than the ones stated above, but I tend to believe the Gurus were aware that the marriage-tradition would change, and hence they spoke explicitly on lust, which can happen at any time in ones life, not just when dating.

    Muslims used to go around villages and select the most beautiful women and then marry them before forcing them to bear their children. Does that mean that these muslims were ok, just because they were married? I wouldn't agree, they are just as lustful if they hadn't married. They married solely for the purpose of lust, which back then was culture. If you date solely for the prupose of lust, you are going against Sikhi. But, not if you just date, and are both aware of your future goals concerning lines of sexual intimacy.

    Therefore, the implied definition of dating is relative to all individuals. Sikhi does speak on such things as lust, so please be aware of that, and try to control at the best of your ability.

    It does NOT speak on dating, dating was never a topic in Sikhi. It is personal choice and how you handle yourself.

    Edit : I just noticed you were a girl, sorry for replying as if you were a boy. Please just replace the words.
     
  10. Sher Singh

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    good points S|kh
     
  11. Dawnnymph

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    Thank you for your input everyone now i can fully understand...
     
  12. Sher Singh

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    No problem Dawnnymph, any time you need some more advise, we're here for you :)
     
  13. Singhstah

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    A sikh cant "go out" with anyone FULL STOP.
     
  14. truthseeker

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    Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh!!!

    Good point Singhstah veerji,

    we ask sikhs are NOT to have any relationoships before marriage.
     
  15. S|kH

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    Singhstah, truthseeker,

    Read my post, and please provide facts as to why we can not "date".

    You need a basis for your logic.
     
  16. Amerikaur

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    I agree with S|kh jee. I don't think there is a particular bar from dating, nor is there a rule that says Sikhs must date. In our Guru's infinite wisdom, they were silent on this very personal issue (as far as I know).

    I have nothing against arranged marriages. But not every situation is textbook...especially once the people grow past the traditional "marriageable" age, and may have already lived an adult life that involves children and other matters that make marriage a very delicate issue.
     
  17. truthseeker

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    Waheguru ji ka khalsa Waheguru ji ki fateh!

    Very true... its have changed alot and i kno that i personally would have to kno the guy very well before i was to marry him. so in that case eveen id my parents were to pick him out for my or w.e i woud still have to "Date" him in a sense just to get to kno who he is stuff like that.
    Waheguru ji ka khalsa Waheguru ji ki fateh!
     
  18. Randip Singh

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    actually this is slightly incorrect.

    Any relationship base on Kaam is taboo for a Sikh. A relationship based on love is not taboo.

    A relationship that actually helps you to control the 5 thieves cannot be taboo.

    Interestingly in Varan Bhai Gurdas he refererds to Heer Ranjha , Sassi Pannu etc, but ultimately the most highest form of love is for Waheguru:
     
  19. Sagefrakrobatik

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    This seems to be a common leimotif in most religions. Yesterday i was watching a sitcom about a young Pakistani Muslim boy who lives with an American family. Well he ends up dating this Muslim girl sort of. BOth families meet each other at the girls house and talk. the Muslim boy spends a lot of time with the mother and father and barely anytime with the girl. The American mom of the immigrant sets up a date with the two to be alone by confusing the Muslim girls parents about the resteraunt they are suppose to meet at. At the resteraunt the Muslim girl kisses the Muslim boy on the cheeck and he tells her she cant do that unless they are married. the Muslim boy's american sister ends up seeing the Muslim girl in a resteraunt holding hands with an American boy. He confronts her about it and she tells him that she is Muslim but she is also a westerner and wants to date and that he should meet girls.
    Recently, ive been talking to this Muslim girl I sent her three emails and havent heard anything back. In my last email I asked her out for lunch. I'm going to wait a week and see what she says. Although i havent been intimate with a female since summer of 2002, I still cant see why any physical expression of intimacy is immoral coming from a logical standpoint. I'm not totally out of the loop when i hear relligious people disdain dating. I have a younger sister and whenever i think of hear getting intimate with a male it makes me cringe especially when she started to have her boyfriend spend the night. However i learned to adapt. Now my sister lives with her boyfriend. I figured i cannot control her i can only love her even when she cusses at me and says she doesnt F^*&(^%ing like me.
    Im moderate when it comes to sexuality. Im not a promiscuse rapist but at the same time I'm no prude. I think that the expression of physical intimacy should be related to the maturity and level of commitment in the relationship.
     
  20. Lee

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    I would like to know where you learnt such a thing, where can I find this teaching in our Guru Granth Sahib?
     
  21. singhbj

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    Waheguru ji ka khalsa
    Waheguru ji ki fateh

    ਸੂਹੀ ਮਹਲਾ
    सूही महला ४ ॥
    Sūhī mehlā 4.
    Soohee, Fourth Mehl:

    ਹਰਿ ਪਹਿਲੜੀ ਲਾਵ ਪਰਵਿਰਤੀ ਕਰਮ ਦ੍ਰਿੜਾਇਆ ਬਲਿ ਰਾਮ ਜੀਉ
    हरि पहिलड़ी लाव परविरती करम द्रिड़ाइआ बलि राम जीउ ॥
    Har pahilaṛī lāv parvirṯī karam driṛ­ā­i­ā bal rām jī­o.
    In the first round of the marriage ceremony, the Lord sets out His Instructions for performing the daily duties of married life.

    ਬਾਣੀ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਵੇਦੁ ਧਰਮੁ ਦ੍ਰਿੜਹੁ ਪਾਪ ਤਜਾਇਆ ਬਲਿ ਰਾਮ ਜੀਉ
    बाणी ब्रहमा वेदु धरमु द्रिड़हु पाप तजाइआ बलि राम जीउ ॥
    Baṇī barahmā vėḏ ḏẖaram ḏariṛĥu pāp ṯajā­i­ā bal rām jī­o.
    Instead of the hymns of the Vedas to Brahma, embrace the righteous conduct of Dharma, and renounce sinful actions.

    Source: Sri Granth: Sri Guru Granth Sahib

    Above Gurbani verses are from Lavan (anand Karaj).

    "embrace the righteous conduct of Dharma, and renounce sinful actions"

    means after marriage the couple must adapt the right conduct (Sikh Code of Conduct)
    be commited to one another and not to commit adultery, keep control over kaam.
    sinful actions also include any activity undertaken under influence of Kaam i.e masturbation, sex without marriage, flirting, dating etc

    A Gursikh couple must understand and follow Guru Sahib jeeo's Hukum and renounce all the sinful actions which singles usually perform.

    Hence it is must for a couple to get married and live in Grahst Jeevan and follow Dharma.

    Waheguru ji ka khalsa
    Waheguru ji ki fateh
     
    #20 singhbj, Jun 18, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016

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