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Can a person be a Tankhaya by touching Alchohal.

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by vijaydeep Singh, Feb 28, 2005.

  1. vijaydeep Singh

    vijaydeep Singh
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    Ek Oankar Wahiguru Ji Ki Fateh

    Das is asking a serous and a person question.

    It happened that during two weaks ago that there was a person who owned a wine shop and he was in difficulty and Das worked with him for two days.

    He had a stock of alchohal based products so Das did touoched sealed bottle of Alchahol based product.

    Das curously asked one Kathakar (story sayer) from GuruDawara Brahm Bunga Dodra(Das took him as a missioanry intiaLY).

    According to him that if a Sikh removes Kirpan to borad an Air Craft,He/She is not a Tankhya.But is Sikh touches bottle of alchohal based product then He is a Tankhya.Das is aware that as per Rahit Maryada of sgpc consuming Alchohal is not allowed.Das has not consumded it either.Yes Nihungs afer being Amrit Dhari do consume Madira calling it PanjRatni.

    so that Kathkar also told das that it is also incorrect to throw away packets of Cigrates or pieces if we found then in or near Gurudwara Sahib.They must not be touched but picked up with Teela(wooden tothpick like thing).

    So Das will be by mercy of Akal may soon be joinig active military duties.So Das wants to know was that person correct.

    In military to delivier the necceasry items to other soldiers Das may again have to carry alchohal or Tobacco based products.Das here want to say that in past also after touching such product das did cleaned himself especialy before consuming something.

    So is that Kathkar is correct or he is under the ailment of Brahmanism as untouchabiltiy is one of its component.Das also want to say that if we have to use teela to remove cigertate then when Sikhs attacked Pakistan then those people would have only done the fumgation of tobbaco and we would have returned back.At least if that Kathkar had he been in Army would have done similar thing.

    Jokes aside.Das is interested to know the views of Sant Amarpal Singh Ji,Gyani Jarnail Singh Ji ,Brother AmritPal Singh Ji or Tejwant Singh Ji,who can only tell that does touching alchohal amounts for Tankhya.This may decide the future of Das regarding military services.So kindly deal it as importent and give your views to Das.
     
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  3. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Dear Vijaydeep Singh Jio,
    Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji Ki Fateh.

    "CONSUMPTION" of all TOBACCO is a KUREHIT and that makes one a Tankhiyah that needs to Pesh before the Panj and get Tankhah.
    Consumption of Alcohol is NOt DIRECTLY mentioned as clearly as Tobacco, but it comes under the "drug", "addictive" category and also Gurbani tells us in a few Panktiyaan that this is not a thing a Good Sikh of Guru Ji would do.

    SO now we come to the Catch-22 situation....is "consumption" the same as "looking at it", Touching it...with one's fingers, foot, or with a twelve foot pole (Teela !!!)...carrying in one's car boot a box full of wine bottles, or having wine bottles stored under one's bed/office table/store room etc etc etc ???

    Well here is a tongue in cheek simialr situation. A man was brought before the judge For "beating his wife". "Your Honour", the man pleaded.."I did not beat my wife....I was just thinking about it.." THATS the SAME THING..thunderd the Judge and fined the man 100 Pounds.
    A half hour later the man was back in court facing the judge. Whats he done now ?? asked the Judge ... He is REFUSING to pay the Fine, your Honour replied the Prosecutor.

    NO No Your Honour...I didnt do that...I was JUST THINKING about paying the fine....and since you just ruled that "thinking about an act" and "DOING IT" are the Same.... I HAVE ALREADY PAID THE FINE by THINKING ABOUT IT...but this court clerk refuses to accept YOUR JUDGEMENT...

    SO dear veer Jio, the REHAT MARYADA and GURMATT BANS the CONSUMPTION...that is PHYSICALLY EATING/DRINKING/SMOKING....not "thinking about it", "touching the bottle", kicking the Cigarette pack lying on the ground, sleeping on a bed under which there is a pack of beer cans, sitting at a table on which lies a six pack, driving a car that has its boot full of beer bottles, passing by a liqour shop, bar, hotel, flying in an aeroplane over a bar , a beer factory...etc etc etc wont VIOLATE the Rehat maryada or Gurmatt....BUT also BE WARNED....too much CLOSE PROXIMITY ( Khalwat in Islamic lingo)...can be HAZARDOUS to your SPIRITUAL HEALTH....so STAY far away as POSSIBLE....whenever POSSIBLE ( that is dont go out of your way to go near alcohol/smokers etc..or look for their company )...in other words Use your GURU GIVEN BIBEK BUDHI....to "judge" each situation on its own merits..rememeber Guru nanak Ji says of those "purists" and False "sachiaars" who Draw out lines on the ground and cry out Matt bitteh Ve matt Bhitteh ann asada fitteh....when they DONT REALISE that ALL the "FILTH" is actually INSIDE their CIRCLE !!! A TRUE GURSIKH is never like that.

    Stay In Chardikalla. May waheguru Ji Bless you in your career..and may you progress along the True Path of GURMATT..and also continue to write on the Forums.

    Jarnail Singh
     
  4. Arvind

    Arvind
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    Gyani ji,

    I like the way you give examples. That clears things up in a moment.

    Thank you.
     
  5. CaramelChocolate

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    Tankhya means...????
     
  6. Arvind

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    CC, Tankhayia is someone who has done a kurehat
     
  7. CaramelChocolate

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    ..........kurehat???
     
  8. Arvind

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    Kurehat = Ku + Rehat. i.e. something against Rehat maryada
     
  9. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Dear caramel,
    This word "Tankhiyah" has an unusual connotation.
    In the early days of Sikhi, when the Govt was actively supressing Sikhi and Sikh "heads" had a Price of Rs 80 each, and Sikhs were beign hunted down mercilessly.... there were some "sikhs" who had Govt positions in the Administrative areas ( Guru nanak ji himself once worked as Store Keepr for the Nawab of Sultanpur Lodhi ).
    Since the Govt of the day was the ENEMY of the Sikhs....the general Sikh body regarded these Sikhs in Govt service as "tankhiyahs".... those taking TANKHAH ( salary) of an "enemy" Govt. Later on the Govt became even more cruel and even killed these sikhs in their service.....the new terms of service was CONVERT or DIE...ALL the Sikhs chose DEATH.

    Now a days as Veer Arvind has written tankhiyah is one who has committed a TRANSGRESSION agaisnt the Rehat maryada..that is broken one of its rules. IT is NOT a PUNISHMENT....but an attempt to "improve" the sikh so he learns from his mistake....therefore when a person reports his mistake he is told to do so many paaths/serve food in the langgar/do seva of various kinds like wiping shoes of sangat/do karah parshaad etc.

    Maharaja ranjit Singh was punished PHYSICALLY by wipping him twenty lashes for such a transgression by the Jathedar Akal takhat Akali Phoola Singh...but since then no such physical "punishment" has been administered to anybody.

    IF a Tankhiyah sikh REFUSES to admit his mistake..then he is called before the Akal Takhat where Five Priests sit in and consider his case and pronounce judgements like "excommunication"..and no sikh can have any sort of contact with such an outcast. This step is controversial and seems to have been copied from the Christians/Rome.

    Jarnail Singh
     
  10. Neutral Singh

    Neutral Singh
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    Gyani Ji, can you tell us who was the first person excommunicated and how this controversial tradition crept into Sikhism... seems pretty dogmatic to me, just a islamic Fatwa ??
     
  11. Arvind

    Arvind
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    Gyani ji,
    Thanks for clearing this up. I didnt know the history abt this.
    With appreciation,
    Arvind.
     
  12. vijaydeep Singh

    vijaydeep Singh
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    Ek Oankar Wahiguru Ji Ki Fateh

    Das thanks Gyani Sahib for his mercy to Papi like him(Das).Das in future also will keep on bringing such issues,whenever das comes across such.As Das's hindu family can not help but Das's whole family is Panth.

    coming to who was first Tankha.Das does not know it at all but there is a Sakhi from Sau Sakhi.

    It says that when Tenth Master went to Dadu Dwara in Rajasthan,Its Mahant did fullest service to Guru(Dadu was actually a Muslim like saint Kabeer and his name was Daud,Who was revered by Muslims and hindus alike,We still have the follower of him called Dadupanthi,this creed has similar ideas like that of Gurmat).

    There at the grave of Dadu Guru Saluted the grave with Arrow/Bow.Sangat of Sikhs at once was rembering that as per Gurmat worshipping of graves is forbiddan.And anyone who does that is doing anti Gurmat.so they told the same to Guru aND perhaps toild that this amounts to Tankha(Payment (for misdeed)).

    Guru himself took Amrit from Sangat(Five Beloved one) and himself was governed by code(Rahit as per Gurmat).

    Guru told to them that this act was doen by Guru intentionaly just to check that if Khalsa is ready to go by book or by code of conduct in absence of him.

    It is said that Guru did undergo Tankha also.

    But in real what Das thinks that this episode was done by Guru just to prove few unique things of Gurmat.

    1. There can be no hypocracy,What is preached must be followed by preacher.
    2.No one is above the code or Book or Gurmat.
    3.Sangat was given higher status then Guru himself.
    4. Gurmat is not the cult who worships persons or it is not a personal worshipping cult but a Faith where follower enjoys the status even higher then the founder.And there is no such faith like us in world.

    Akal Bless.
     

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