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Christianity British (Christians) Interference in Sikh Faith

Discussion in 'Interfaith Dialogues' started by BaljeetSingh, Feb 22, 2009.

  1. BaljeetSingh

    BaljeetSingh
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    Dear all - I have been thinking about this topic for a long time (about 4 years now).

    Most religions practiced in the world originated thousands of years ago. Hinduism has been prevalent in India for more than 5000 years, Buddhism is about 2500 years old, Christianity and Judaism are more than 2000 years old and Islam is 1300 years old. These religions have successfully passed the test of time. All of these religions had the backing of kingdoms. The history has proven time and again that a religion can not sustain without the backing of a kingdom or country.
    rwj ibnw nhI Drm cly hy[ Drm ibnw sb dly mly hY[
    It is no surprise that no modern religion could successfully establish among these religions. Then came Guru Nanak, who not only proved flaws in the prevailing religious practices, but also laid strong foundation of Sikh faith that passed the test of time with flying colors with no sponsorship from kingdoms or countries today. Sikhism, today, is world’s fifth largest religion, ahead of Judaism.

    People usually think religions as a practice started thousands of years ago. When I talk to people in USA about Sikh religion and tell them that it started five centuries ago, I get a surprise look. Recently, I got a chance to give few presentations about Sikh religion to local population in USA. First thing that I usually talk in those presentations is the timeline. It helps set perspective in the audience mind about how modern our religion is. I usually tell them Sikh religion started around the time Columbus discovered America. Later, I found many other modern world history events that happened during the 1500s to 1700s when Sikh religion was very young. Here is a chart showing some of the major world events around that time along with major events of Sikh history. Here are few interesting facts from this chart:
    Ø Guru Nanak started his travels when he was just 31 years old. It was interesting to note that Guru Nanak had this desire to travel around the world at such a young age. When we think of Guru Nanak, various artists’ creation - in which Guru Nanak is shown with full flowing grey hair beard come to our mind. Imagine Guru Nanak as a young Sikh in his thirties with pitch black full flowing beard traveling all over India spreading his words of wisdom.
    Ø When Guru Nanak was spreading his knowledge around India and Middle East, explorers like Columbus, Vasco De Gama and Ferdinand Magellan were exploring sea routes around the world. Columbus discovered America and Vasco de Gama landed in India when Guru Nanak was in his twenties.
    Ø Long before Copernicus claimed that the Earth revolves around the Sun and the invention of telescope, Guru Nanak was spreading the words:
    DrqI hor pry hor hor]
    Ø The City of Amritsar was founded just 50 years before the Manhattan Island was bought by Dutch from Native Americans.


    I have been thinking for sometime now, that how come there is no mention of Christianity in the Guru Nanak and other Guru's and Bhagat's shabads in the Guru Granth Sahib. It is well known fact that Islam and Christianity share the same roots. How come then all Bhagat's and Guru's shabad refer to only Hindu and Islam?

    Is it that Guru Nanak never came across Christian followers in his travels to the far west in Mecca Madina and in the southern India. Portugese had well settled in Goa by then. Christians (British) were also settling in India since late 1500s. How come there is no mention of them in any of Sikh historical artifacts.

    Printing press was a western invention. The first Guru Granth Sahib and Sikh history books were published during the British Regime (late 1800s). Does any one know who (perhaps british (read christians)) financed the printing of first guru granth sahib and other sikh history books (Tawareekh Khalsa, Suraj Prakash, etc.)? Did they edit out any shabads, references to Christians practices from guru granth sahib?

    Anyone ever compared the currently accepted copy of Guru Granth Sahib with about 56 hand written copies (pothis) to check the differences. There was a study conducted by Prof. Piar Singh and published as a book - Gaatha Granth Sahib. He was quickly declared a tankhaiya by the panth and asked to apologize. All printed copies of that book were recalled and burnt.

    I attended American Association of Religion and Society of Biblical Literature conference in Philadelphia in 2005. Scholars from all over world presented their work in the 3 day conference. Among other sessions, there was a session on "Men's studies in Religion Group". This session examined the construction and experience of masculanities in the contexts of Mormonism, Sikhism and evangelical Christianity. Navdeep Mandier from Conventry, UK presented his paper. Among other things, he mentioned that British (read Christians) were always interested in all races that displayed open display of masuline features. With long beard and open display of kirpan, british quickly became very intererested in Sikhs.

    We used to carry 3 feet long kirpan which was shortened to 6 inches during British (Christian) Raj. We used to sport open flowing beard. British (Christian) Generals ordered Sikh soldiers to tie the beard up.

    In today's world, the Chritian's influence (interference) in Sikhs is increasing daily, especially in Punjab. Few years back, there was an english movie DaVinci Code which suggested Jesus Christ was married and had kids. Christians all over the world protested this movie. There was a move to ban this movie in India. The only two states where this movie was finally banned were Nagaland and Punjab.

    Do I make any sense?

    Regards
     
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  3. spnadmin

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    BaljeetSingh ji

    There is enough in your essay for several questions to be discussed and they will be very interesting. I live 20 minutes from Philadelphia and wish I had known about this conference.
     
  4. pk70

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    Is it that Guru Nanak never came across Christian followers in his travels to the far west in Mecca Madina and in the southern India. Portugese had well settled in Goa by then. Christians (British) were also settling in India since late 1500s. How come there is no mention of them in any of Sikh historical artifacts.

    Printing press was a western invention. The first Guru Granth Sahib and Sikh history books were published during the British Regime (late 1800s). Does any one know who (perhaps british (read christians)) financed the printing of first Guru Granth Sahib and other Sikh history books (Tawareekh Khalsa, Suraj Prakash, etc.)? Did they edit out any shabads, references to Christians practices from Guru Granth Sahib?

    Anyone ever compared the currently accepted copy of Guru Granth Sahib with about 56 hand written copies (pothis) to check the differences. There was a study conducted by Prof. Piar Singh and published as a book - Gaatha Granth Sahib. He was quickly declared a tankhaiya by the panth and asked to apologize. All printed copies of that book were recalled and burnt.(quote Baljeet Singh ji)


    I doubt there was any thing written in favor or against Christianity by any Bhagatas or Guru that got edited. If you think it was edited, I cannot agree with you because the way SGGS ji complied; it is difficult to do that. There are poems floating around in the name of Guru Nanak(GB Singh talked about in his search), why those were not inserted in SGGS by Christian rulers, those poems serve their purpose to divide people (their bottom line goal) In Japji Sahib, Guru Nanak names all major religious figures of other faiths but of Christianity. If you remember, these references are repeated in SGGS, if it was one time “reference” it would have been easy to edit. Hand written copies of SGGS (before Christians became rulers) are found, there is no reference of Christianity either. It is just a guess. What happened to Piar Singh, I feel sorry, if you are aware, there is no tendency in Sikh leaders to get into the bottom of the truth, so no fairness is expected from them. Thanks for sharing your views, I like them
     
  5. spnadmin

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    The Kararpuri Bir is the gold standard when checking the veracity of printed versions of SGGS. A book, The Compilation of Sri Guru Granth Sahib, by Professor Sahib Singh debunks challenges to the Kartarpuri Bir. It is pubished by Lok Sahit Parkashan Amritsar and Dr. Sahib Sing goes into considerable detail. It is a brilliant work of scholarship which employs sound methods for validating the originality of texts. It is even at times a humorous debunking of critics. The book is too large a file for me to upload it. I am not sure how it can be uploaded so that forum members can read it.

    Another book about the authenticity of the Kartarpuri Bir consists of 4 essays by Professor Daljeet Singh, published at Punjabi University Patiala, at this link Global Sikh Studies.net >> Home Page. Check the left hand nagivation bar on the home page for this link Authenticity of Kartarpuri Bir. Both books are confirmations that the Bir is intact and authentic. Therefore the Bir itself becomes the standard for authenticating other documents.

    The reasoning as pk70 says in the end comes down to the internal consistency from one shabad to the next and the overall unity of the publication.

    Another online book at the same Global Sikh Studies web site is entitled The Planned Attack on AGGS. This book explains why continued re-evaluations of the authenticity of the Adi Granth (in the form of the Karapuri Bir) are carefully engineered to undermine our confidence in the Bir.
     
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  6. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    The book is too large a file for me to upload it. I am not sure how it can be uploaded so that forum members can read it.

    dear aad ji..
    perhaps Google books provides such a service ??
    Alternatively perhaps the file can be broken up into chapters....
    I would love to get my hands on that book....???:welcome:
     
  7. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    A lot of hanky panky did actually happen during the "British Rule"....the Dohra..Raaj Karega Khalsa was banned from Harmandir Sahib....the one book compilation of the dsm granth also appeared during thsi time...the puratan mahants/derawadees were given control of Gurdwaras/approved by the British to further weaken Gurmatt...etc etc BUT YES one thing is CLEAR..No interference could take place in the SGGS simply becasue of the SUPERB EDITING and Accountability of Guru Arjun Ji Sahib....TAMPER PROOF COMPILATION.:)
     
  8. spnadmin

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    Gyani ji

    They are all pdf files and huge. So to break them up is impossible given my abilities. Maybe I can upload them to an Internet site where you can get them by download. They are even too large for me to upload them here because we have a size limit. They are not on Google books either. Which book do you want BTW -- all 3 or a specific one? We can figure out how to do it.

    Wait a minute -- I think it is figured out. You want the first book, am I correct? Try this and let me know if you are successful. This is the entire Google result for a search on the book. Click the top link. Where it says Compilation of The bottom link is dead on their site for some reason.

    [PDF] Compilation of

    File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat
    compilation of Sri Guru Granth Sahib by the 5th Nanak, Sri Guru. Arjan Dev. ...... two books of Baba Mohan for compilation of Guru Granth Sahib. ...
    www.globalsikhstudies.net/pdf/Compilation%20of%20SGGS.pdf - Similar pages
     
  9. Admin Singh

    Admin Singh
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    Hard to believe but my virus scanner reports that globalsikhstudies.net is trying to insert a trojan in my computer. unfortunately, i had to close the connection to that website.

    The virus on the web site was corrected according to a message from the Director of Global Sikh Studies today May 12, 2009. aad0002
     
    #8 Admin Singh, Feb 22, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: May 13, 2009
  10. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Aman ji

    The pdf link still works though.

    You know the problem may be that there is a browser hijacker on the site that came from some of the advertisements. This is getting to be a nuisance. Well, we have to figure out how to get the pdf file to Gyani ji somehow. I will report the trojan to the webmaster at globalsikhstudies because my Mac isn't affected by viruses written for Microsoft products.
     
  11. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    dear aad ji...
    i tried the globalsikhstudies link repeatedly but got the following message..
    Error 403 - Forbidden

    You tried to access a document for which you don't have privileges.


    am waiting for my IT expert son to come back from Uni...and try again.
     
  12. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Gyani ji

    My reply is a couple of post back. I will send you the link too. You odn't need priviledge for the one below.

    [PDF] Compilation of
     
  13. dalsingh

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    Another seriously dubious move was to alter the Amrit Sanskar ceremony to include a vow of loyalty to the British monarchy at the time of baptism, for those who joined the army.
     
  14. Tejwant Singh

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    I was told that Khanda was also the creation of the Brits as were many other insignias for the different ethnic regiments.
    In my opinion our only symbol should be 1a> .

    1a>
    IK ONG KAAR and we should only use this symbol which means ONE SOURCE OF ALL. It has nothing to do with the word GOD that is used by other religions which means a being, a deity NOT Creative Energy what IK ONG KAAR is.

    Tejwant Singh
     
  15. dalsingh

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    The khanda can also be seen as an evolution of a pre-British old Sikh standard. The one in my avtaar.
     
  16. Tejwant Singh

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    Dal Singh,

    Guru Fateh.

    Interesting avtaar. Please share more about it, its origin and its history.

    Thanks

    Tejwant Singh
     
  17. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    AAd Ji, Thanks for the link. It works.
    Btw i just discovered that I have read the PUNJABI version of this book..AAD beerh bareh and have a copy in Punjabi. So having the ENGLISH verison as well is a double BONUS.
    THANKS again. Much appreciated.

    2. The Author and Prof Noel King ( who just passed away short while ago..) are absolutley RIGHT..we Sikhs didnt appreciate what we had in Prof SAHIB SINGH....Now its too late...as he is gone forever.....SAME goes for Prof Noel King....we didint appreciate him and now its too late....GREAT MINDS in the Service of Sikhi/Gurmatt/SGGS......and we squandered them by IGNORANCE...sad case.
     
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  18. Huck_Finn

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    aadji

    you can try slideshare.net or other free file sharing websites.
     
  19. spnadmin

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    Thank you amarsanghera. i will give it a try. :yes:
     
  20. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Aad Jio,
    I too have heard of those sites...my son uses them to upload huge files of Football games ( you guessed it..he is an avid Man-United Fan)......so it would be possible. If you need any help i can get my sons advice...on uploading ftp procedures..but I am sure there are many others in SPN's team who are experts...

    Thanks
     
  21. spnadmin

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    Gyani ji

    Thank you very much. Your son could send me a private message or use my gmail account. See my profile. That wil; be great!
     

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