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Hinduism Brahman: A Cause of Damage to Hindu Society in Religion

Discussion in 'Interfaith Dialogues' started by rabjot_singh@yahoo.co.in, Oct 30, 2008.

  1. rabjot_singh@yahoo.co.in

    rabjot_singh@yahoo.co.in
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    The word Brahmin incorporates all the upper-caste Hindus of India. They claim that, because they were made from God Brahma's head, they are the chosen people of God. Worshipping a Brahmin is akin to worshippirig God incarnate. Serving a Brahmin and offering him alms is like serving God himself. These are in the beliefs that are inculcated in the minds of all other people, especially in the low caste Hindus.

    The MANU SMRITI (BIBLE OF HINDUISM) says:
    (a) A Brahmin is born to fulfill Dharma. Whatever exists in the world is the property of the Brahmin. On account of the excellence of his origin, he is entitled to all. All mortals subsist through the benevolence of the Brahmin.
    (b) Ignorant or learned, a Brahmin is still a great deity.
    TO BRAHMINS - THE THREE WORLDS AND THE GODS OWE THEIR EXISTENCE.
    Dr Ambedkar says the cardinal principles of Brahminism are six:
    [​IMG]1. Graded inequality between the different classes. [​IMG]2. The complete disarmament of the Shudras and Untouchables. [​IMG]3. The complete prohibition of education to the Shudras and Untouchables. [​IMG]4. Ban on the Shudras and the Untouchables in occupying places of power and authority. [​IMG]5. Ban on the Shudras and the Untouchables in acquiring property. [​IMG]6. The complete subjugation and suppression of women.
    "Inequality is therefore the official doctrine of BRAHMINISM" (IBID - 204).
    "Devadhinam jagat sarvarm Mantradhinam ta devata Tam Mantram Brahmandhinam Brahmana nam devata" Meaning: "The Universe is under the power of gods, The gods are under the power of the mantras, The mantras are under the power of the Brahmins, Therefore the Brahmins are our gods. " ​
    Abbe J.A. Dubois's "Hindu Manners, Customs and Ceremonies" Oxford, Third Edition 1906, Page 139. See also page 93.

    According to Manu (A Hindu Holy Book) it says:
    [​IMG]* The Shudras belong to the same category as crows, frogs, ducks, moles, dogs or transport animals and have the same disabilities as members of their category. [​IMG]* It is permissible for a member of the high caste to expropriate the wealth of a Shudra by deceit. [​IMG]* The different castes shall pay interest at different rates, the lowest will pay the highest rate. [​IMG]* A Shudra's witness is not normally to be accepted when there is no witness of a "twice-born" person.
    To get a strong foothold in India, the Brahmin divided the sons of India into various different castes.

    PUNISHMENT FOR LOW CASTE HINDUS

    The tongue of a Shudra, who spoke evil about a BRAHMIN should be cut off A Shudra who dared to assume a position of equality with the first three castes was to be flogged. (Apastambha Dharma Sutra III, 10-26)
    If a Shudra overheard a recitation of the Vedas, molten tin was to be poured into his ears; if he repeated the Vedas his tongue should be cut and if he remembered Vedic hymns, his body was to be torn into pieces.
    MANU 167-272 says: If a Shudra arrogantly teaches Brahmins Dharma, the king shall cause hot oil to be poured into his mouth and ears.
    Again MANU 167-272 says: Let the king never slay even a Brahmin though he may have committed all possible crimes.
    With all references to Vedas and Puranas it would be appropriate to question: "How fair is the system of administrating justice?"
    Well, according to these Holy Books if a Brahmin commits a sin he is forgiven, but on the contrary if a low caste Hindu commits a sin, he has to feed twenty Brahmins in order to expiate or erase his sin. Would you call this a fair and just system of justice?!

    ABOUT LOW CASTE
    Shudras - MANU XMRITI X, 129 says that: That no collection of wealth was to be made by a Shudra, even though he may be capable, for a Shudra who has acquired wealth would pain a Brahmin, and that Brahmins may appropriate by force the property of the Shudra.
    PANCHVANISH BRAHMIN 3-1/1 I says: Even if a Shudra acquired wealth, he must always remain a slave. His main job is to wash the feet of the higher caste.
    TULSIDAS, A Brahmin in his Ramayana writes: Even if a Shudra is learned and virtuous, he should not be given respect and honour. When the British left India, almost all the industries owned by them were taken over by the Brahmins.

    LITERACY THE PEOPLES' RIGHT
    Here is the aphorism of the Brahma-Sutras: "shravana, adhyana, arthapratishedhat smriteh ca" (Brahma-Sutras 1.3.9.38)
    Meaning: "The smrithi orders that shudras must be prohibited from hearing, studying and understanding the Vedas."
    MANU 162-272 says: If a Shudra arrogantly teaches Brahmins, Dharma, the king shall cause hot oil to be poured into his mouth and ears.
     
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  3. spnadmin

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    rajjot_singh ji

    Thanks for filling in some details on the Law of Manu -- a much needed resource for us to understand what the Sikh Gurus were reacting against.
     
  4. rabjot_singh@yahoo.co.in

    rabjot_singh@yahoo.co.in
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    Dear aadji,

    Yes it's a very important issue to all those people who are interested in history of sikhism.

    Why sikhism came into existence? what were the socio political conditions during that time? what corrupt religious and social practices were being followed during that time?

    I would say that sikhism is a revival of hinduism.
     
  5. spnadmin

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    Rabjot_singh ji

    If you will forgive my contribution then to this thread. The ideas you have detailed below are the religious backdrop for the birth of Sikhism. Here is something that lays out what the cultural and political conditions were at the time of Guru Nanak, and just before he was to speak of mukhti -- to liberate us. It is the introduction to the history call The Sikh Religion by Max Macauliffe -- a convert to Sikhism who died in India, but not before he wrote a history of Sikhsim which was published in 1909. Some passages are horrible (a historical account of atrocities committed against the people of the Punjab by Persian overlords at the time of Guru Nanak) and, to tell the truth, when I frst read them became very emotional. But then I realized that Sikhism was born in these times as a the balm to heal suffering and evil.

    The Sikh Religion: The Introduction This is the link http://www.sacred-texts.com/skh/tsr1/tsr103.htm
     
    #4 spnadmin, Oct 31, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 1, 2008
  6. pk70

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    I am surprised to read assumptions about Nanak panth, regardless references given in Gurbani about “Naam in Vedas” (ਵੇਦਾ ਮਹਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਉਤਮੁ ਸੋ ਸੁਣਹਿ ਨਾਹੀ ਫਿਰਹਿ ਜਿਉ ਬੇਤਾਲਿਆ
    veā mėh nām uam so suėh nāhī firėh ji▫o beāli▫ā.
    In the Vedas, the ultimate objective is the Naam, the Name of the Lord; but they do not hear this, and they wander around like demons.ਮਃ 3)
    , Sikhism is not revival of Hinduism; at least it is not at per Guru’s own declaration. Sikhism is to lead the soul to its origin “Akaal” In the following Guru Shabad, it is very clear, by studying Vedas and Bhagwat Geeta, one can assume whatever it interests to the mind but Gurbani rejects any alliance with any prevailed/existed religion. In the following Shabad Guru ji is commenting on both Hindus and Muslims as per their religious practices and beliefs; however, at the end of the Shabad, he inserts the truth about the Lord.

    ਰਾਮਕਲੀ ਮਹਲਾ
    Rāmkalī mėhlā 5.
    Raamkalee, Fifth Mehl:

    ਕੋਈ ਬੋਲੈ ਰਾਮ ਰਾਮ ਕੋਈ ਖੁਦਾਇ
    Ko▫ī bolai rām rām ko▫ī kẖuḏā▫e.
    Some call Him, 'Raam, Raam', and some call Him, 'Khudaa-i'.

    ਕੋਈ ਸੇਵੈ ਗੁਸਈਆ ਕੋਈ ਅਲਾਹਿ
    Ko▫ī sevai gus▫ī▫ā ko▫ī alāhi. ||1||
    Some serve Him as 'Gusain', others as 'Allaah'. ||1||

    ਕਾਰਣ ਕਰਣ ਕਰੀਮ
    Kāraṇ karaṇ karīm.
    He is the Cause of causes, the Generous Lord.

    ਕਿਰਪਾ ਧਾਰਿ ਰਹੀਮ ਰਹਾਉ
    Kirpā ḏẖār rahīm. ||1|| rahā▫o.
    He showers His Grace and Mercy upon us. ||1||Pause||

    ਕੋਈ ਨਾਵੈ ਤੀਰਥਿ ਕੋਈ ਹਜ ਜਾਇ
    Ko▫ī nāvai ṯirath ko▫ī haj jā▫e.
    Some bathe at sacred shrines of pilgrimage, and some make the pilgrimage to Mecca.|

    ਕੋਈ ਕਰੈ ਪੂਜਾ ਕੋਈ ਸਿਰੁ ਨਿਵਾਇ
    Ko▫ī karai pūjā ko▫ī sir nivā▫e. ||2||
    Some perform devotional worship services, and some bow their heads in prayer. ||2||

    ਕੋਈ ਪੜੈ ਬੇਦ ਕੋਈ ਕਤੇਬ
    Ko▫ī paṛai beḏ ko▫ī kaṯeb.
    Some read the Vedas, and some the Koran.

    ਕੋਈ ਓਢੈ ਨੀਲ ਕੋਈ ਸੁਪੇਦ
    Ko▫ī odẖai nīl ko▫ī supeḏ. ||3||
    Some wear blue robes, and some wear white. ||3||

    ਕੋਈ ਕਹੈ ਤੁਰਕੁ ਕੋਈ ਕਹੈ ਹਿੰਦੂ
    Ko▫ī kahai ṯurak ko▫ī kahai hinḏū.
    Some call themselves Muslim, and some call themselves Hindu.

    ਕੋਈ ਬਾਛੈ ਭਿਸਤੁ ਕੋਈ ਸੁਰਗਿੰਦੂ
    Ko▫ī bācẖẖai bẖisaṯ ko▫ī surginḏū. ||4||
    Some yearn for paradise, and others long for heaven. ||4||

    ਕਹੁਨਾਨਕਜਿਨਿਹੁਕਮੁਪਛਾਤਾ
    Kaho Nānak jin hukam pacẖẖāṯā.
    Says Nanak, one who realizes the Hukam of God's Will,

    ਪ੍ਰਭਸਾਹਿਬਕਾਤਿਨਿਭੇਦੁਜਾਤਾ
    Parabẖ sāhib kā ṯin bẖeḏ jāṯā. ||5||9||
    knows the secrets of his Lord and Master. ||5||9||

    In the following Guru Shabad, belief of incarnation of Lord( claims of people about Lord Krishna or by Lord Krishna himself ( Bhagwat Geeta) is totally rejected.

    ਭੈਰਉ ਮਹਲਾ ਘਰੁ
    Bẖairo mėhlā 5 gẖar 1
    Bhairao, Fifth Mehl, First House:

    ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ
    Ik▫oaʼnkār saṯgur parsāḏ.
    One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

    ਸਗਲੀ ਥੀਤਿ ਪਾਸਿ ਡਾਰਿ ਰਾਖੀ
    Saglī thīṯ pās dār rākẖī.
    Setting aside all other days, it is said,

    ਅਸਟਮ ਥੀਤਿ ਗੋਵਿੰਦ ਜਨਮਾ ਸੀ
    Astam thīṯ govinḏ janmā sī. ||1||
    that the Lord was born on the eighth lunar day. ||1||

    ਭਰਮਿ ਭੂਲੇ ਨਰ ਕਰਤ ਕਚਰਾਇਣ
    Bẖaram bẖūle nar karaṯ kacẖrā▫iṇ.
    Deluded and confused by doubt, the mortal practices falsehood.

    ਜਨਮ ਮਰਣ ਤੇ ਰਹਤ ਨਾਰਾਇਣ ਰਹਾਉ
    Janam maraṇ ṯe rahaṯ nārā▫iṇ. ||1|| rahā▫o.
    The Lord is beyond birth and death. ||1||Pause||

    ਕਰਿ ਪੰਜੀਰੁ ਖਵਾਇਓ ਚੋਰ
    Kar panjīr kẖavā▫i▫o cẖor.
    You prepare sweet treats and feed them to your stone god.

    ਓਹੁ ਜਨਮਿ ਮਰੈ ਰੇ ਸਾਕਤ ਢੋਰ
    Oh janam na marai re sākaṯ dẖor. ||2||
    God is not born, and He does not die, you foolish, faithless cynic! ||2||

    ਸਗਲ ਪਰਾਧ ਦੇਹਿ ਲੋਰੋਨੀ
    Sagal parāḏẖ ḏėh loronī.
    You sing lullabies to your stone god - this is the source of all your mistakes.
    ਸੋ ਮੁਖੁ ਜਲਉ ਜਿਤੁ ਕਹਹਿ ਠਾਕੁਰੁ ਜੋਨੀ
    So mukẖ jala▫o jiṯ kahėh ṯẖākur jonī. ||3||
    Let that mouth be burnt, which says that our Lord and Master is subject to birth. ||3||
    ਜਨਮਿ ਮਰੈ ਆਵੈ ਜਾਇ
    Janam na marai na āvai na jā▫e.
    He is not born, and He does not die; He does not come and go in reincarnation.
    ਨਾਨਕ ਕਾ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਰਹਿਓ ਸਮਾਇ
    Nānak kā parabẖ rahi▫o samā▫e. ||4||1||
    The God of Nanak is pervading and permeating everywhere. ||4||1||

    In the following, Fifth Nanak, declares his being separated from the prevailed religions- Islam and Hinduism. Assuming Sikhism as off-shoot or revival of Hinduism is an insult to this declaration of Fifth Nanak( which was written in context of Kabir ji’s another Shabad), at least I feel so because when Guru says that he is neither Hindu nor Muslim, then why to throw false assumption on his declaration?.

    ਭੈਰਉ ਮਹਲਾ
    Bẖairo mėhlā 5.
    Bhairao, Fifth Mehl:

    ਵਰਤ ਰਹਉ ਮਹ ਰਮਦਾਨਾ
    varaṯ na raha▫o na mah ramḏānā.
    I do not keep fasts, nor do I observe the month of Ramadaan.

    ਤਿਸੁ ਸੇਵੀ ਜੋ ਰਖੈ ਨਿਦਾਨਾ
    Ŧis sevī jo rakẖai niḏānā. ||1||
    I serve only the One, who will protect me in the end. ||1||

    ਏਕੁ ਗੁਸਾਈ ਅਲਹੁ ਮੇਰਾ
    Ėk gusā▫ī alhu merā.
    The One Lord, the Lord of the World, is my God Allah.

    ਹਿੰਦੂ ਤੁਰਕ ਦੁਹਾਂ ਨੇਬੇਰਾ ਰਹਾਉ
    Hinḏū ṯurak ḏuhāʼn neberā. ||1|| rahā▫o.
    He administers justice to both Hindus and Muslims. ||1||Pause||

    ਹਜ ਕਾਬੈ ਜਾਉ ਤੀਰਥ ਪੂਜਾ
    Haj kābai jā▫o na ṯirath pūjā.
    I do not make pilgrimages to Mecca, nor do I worship at Hindu sacred shrines.

    ਏਕੋ ਸੇਵੀ ਅਵਰੁ ਦੂਜਾ
    Ėko sevī avar na ḏūjā. ||2||
    I serve the One Lord, and not any other. ||2||

    ਪੂਜਾ ਕਰਉ ਨਿਵਾਜ ਗੁਜਾਰਉ
    Pūjā kara▫o na nivāj gujāra▫o.
    I do not perform Hindu worship services, nor do I offer the Muslim prayers.

    ਏਕ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ਲੇ ਰਿਦੈ ਨਮਸਕਾਰਉ
    Ėk nirankār le riḏai namaskāra▫o. ||3||
    I have taken the One Formless Lord into my heart; I humbly worship Him there. ||3||

    ਨਾ ਹਮ ਹਿੰਦੂ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਨ
    Nā ham hinḏū na musalmān.
    I am not a Hindu, nor am I a Muslim.

    ਅਲਹ ਰਾਮ ਕੇ ਪਿੰਡੁ ਪਰਾਨ
    Alah rām ke pind parān. ||4||
    My body and breath of life belong to Allah - to Raam - the God of both. ||4||

    ਕਹੁ ਕਬੀਰ ਇਹੁ ਕੀਆ ਵਖਾਨਾ
    Kaho Kabīr ih kī▫ā vakẖānā.
    Says Kabeer, this is what I say:

    ਗੁਰ ਪੀਰ ਮਿਲਿ ਖੁਦਿ ਖਸਮੁ ਪਛਾਨਾ
    Gur pīr mil kẖuḏ kẖasam pacẖẖānā. ||5||3||
    meeting with the Guru, my Spiritual Teacher, I realize God, my Lord and Master. ||5||3||
     
  7. Sikh80

    Sikh80
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    Long Bani.
    Good pk70 ji. and thx for expressing the views and making me remember that:

    (ਵੇਦਾ ਮਹਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਉਤਮੁ ਸੋ ਸੁਣਹਿ ਨਾਹੀ ਫਿਰਹਿ ਜਿਉ ਬੇਤਾਲਿਆ
    veā mėh nām uam so suėh nāhī firėh ji▫o beāli▫ā.
    In the Vedas, the ultimate objective is the Naam, the Name of the Lord; but they do not hear this, and they wander around like demons.ਮਃ 3)

    Kindly clarify:
    What is Naam and what is 'jeo' in the above 'Tuk'
    ? I think 'jeo' has not been incorporated in the translation. Kindly help.

     
  8. pk70

    pk70
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    Sikh80 ji,
    Naam has been defined in the thread" Naam Simran and failure" with the help of Guru bachan, please read it if you have missed it. You now use at the end of your quotes" satnaam", literally it is the same one.
    The translator is not my favorite one; however, he has not omitted " jeo" while translating the above Guru Vaak. Please reread it, there is a word" like" that is used for "jeo", jeo, is also used as " jiven, jis trahn"
    jeo betallyaa= like demons
    . Hope it is clear now. Thanks.
     
  9. Sikh80

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    Thanks for explaining the meaning of 'jeo'.
    But Naam is different. It cannot be that you have stated. But you need not respond to this. I shall sort it out with someone else.
    Thanks
     
  10. pk70

    pk70
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    Sikh 80 jio

    There is no different concepts of Naam in Gurbani, it is used for the name of the Lord or for the Lord Himself, if some one says so, I want proof from Gurbani otherwise it is distortion. What Guru ji mentioned in the above Vaak, was about Lord, Lord's name, there is no other entity which is supported by Gurbani. So kindly prove if there is differnce with th support of Gurbani
     
  11. Sikh80

    Sikh80
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    pk70 ji,

    kindly bear with me for some time and i shall explain the reason of such a reasoning.

    Take care!


    Satnam ji:)
     
  12. rabjot_singh@yahoo.co.in

    rabjot_singh@yahoo.co.in
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    Dear aadji,

    you seem to possess a good understanding of why sikhism came into existence.

    Thanks for the link.
     

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