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General Bani of Sant Kabir Das 1

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by BhagatSingh, Sep 15, 2012.

  1. BhagatSingh

    BhagatSingh Canada
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    Bani of Sant Kabir Das, Shabad #1, starts at very bottom of page 91 and goes into page 92

    Introduction: Sant Kabir Das was an orphan found by a young Muslim couple who wanted to have a baby, and was taught how to weave by his father at an early age. He was into spirituality and knew that if he became a disciple of Guru Ramanand, he could learn it. Kabir somehow tricked Guru Ramanand into making him his disciple and providing him with a mantra.

    Guru Ramanand took him as a disciple because of the cleverness of the trick Kabir used to obtain the Guru's Mantra (Gurmantra). Mantra is that phrase which is the closest to your heart. When we are children, our mantra is "Mom", we get hurt, we remember our mom, we get scared "Mommy!" Kabir basically got Guru Ramanand to utter out his mantra in front of Kabir. "Ram Ram!", exclaimed Guru Ramanand, thus revealing that which is closest to his heart.

    Thus started Kabir's journey towards the Divine.


    Sant Kabir is the 5th largest contributor to the Guru Granth Sahib.


    ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
    ੴ A blessing from the True Guru

    ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀਉ ਕਾ ॥ ਏਕੁ ਸੁਆਨੁ ਕੈ ਘਰਿ ਗਾਵਣਾ
    Sri Raag of Kabeer Ji. To Be Sung To The Tune Of Ek Suan/One Dog.

    ਜਨਨੀ ਜਾਨਤ ਸੁਤੁ ਬਡਾ ਹੋਤੁ ਹੈ ਇਤਨਾ ਕੁ ਨ ਜਾਨੈ ਜਿ ਦਿਨ ਦਿਨ ਅਵਧ ਘਟਤੁ ਹੈ ॥
    The mother thinks her son is growing up. Little does she know his age is decreasing day by day.
    ਮੋਰ ਮੋਰ ਕਰਿ ਅਧਿਕ ਲਾਡੁ ਧਰਿ ਪੇਖਤ ਹੀ ਜਮਰਾਉ ਹਸੈ ॥੧॥
    Calling him a peacock, a beautiful boy, she loves him dearly, and seeing this display of affection for that which is dieing day by day, Yamaraj, the King of the dead, laughs.

    Background: Yama was the first mortal who died thus he got to become king of all the dead. What a badass.

    ਐਸਾ ਤੈਂ ਜਗੁ ਭਰਮਿ ਲਾਇਆ ॥
    You have misled the world into ignorance.
    ਕੈਸੇ ਬੂਝੈ ਜਬ ਮੋਹਿਆ ਹੈ ਮਾਇਆ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
    How can they overcome their ignorance when they are attached to Maya? Think about this.

    Background: Maya is the so-called real world. Sant Kabir and Guru Arjan describe Maya as a serpent, who poisons anyone who comes near her.

    ਕਹਤ ਕਬੀਰ ਛੋਡਿ ਬਿਖਿਆ ਰਸ ਇਤੁ ਸੰਗਤਿ ਨਿਹਚਉ ਮਰਣਾ ॥
    Kabir says forsake all (poisoned) pleasures or you will surely die.

    ਰਮਈਆ ਜਪਹੁ ਪ੍ਰਾਣੀ ਅਨਤ ਜੀਵਣ ਬਾਣੀ ਇਨ ਬਿਧਿ ਭਵ ਸਾਗਰੁ ਤਰਣਾ ॥੨॥
    Meditate on Ram, oh mortal, focus on the Bani that will give you eternal life and carry you across the ocean.

    Background: Eternal life*, and crossing the ocean are metaphors used to describe union with Ram and liberation from the cycle of births and deaths.

    ਜਾਂ ਤਿਸੁ ਭਾਵੈ ਤਾ ਲਾਗੈ ਭਾਉ ॥
    When it pleases Him, people come to love him.
    ਭਰਮੁ ਭੁਲਾਵਾ ਵਿਚਹੁ ਜਾਇ ॥
    And their ignorance departs.
    ਉਪਜੈ ਸਹਜੁ ਗਿਆਨ ਮਤਿ ਜਾਗੈ ॥
    Mental steadiness begins to bloom, and they awaken to spiritual wisdom.

    ਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਗੈ ॥੩॥
    Through the blessing of the Guru, one's focus turns inwards.

    ਇਤੁ ਸੰਗਤਿ ਨਾਹੀ ਮਰਣਾ ॥
    Doing this one does not die.

    Background: That which is unaffected by Maya inside you, does not die.

    ਹੁਕਮੁ ਪਛਾਣਿ ਤਾ ਖਸਮੈ ਮਿਲਣਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ਦੂਜਾ ॥
    Only by recognizing the Hukam can you find your Husband Ram. Think about this.

    Background: We will see more of Bride-husband , Man-God relationship metaphors in Kabir's bani.

    Summary
    Kabir Sahib lays out the essence of his philosophy in his first shabad in Guru Granth Sahib. He says that people are attached to Maya, whose pleasures are poisonous to the individual, the pleasures keep him/her in ignorance of the Ultimate reality, which is Ram. He says it is Ram Himself who has made people this way and it is Ram himself who turns them towards Him through a Guru's blessing. He Himself dispells their ignorance and brings their minds to peace.


    *There was mention of Eternal Life. Let me clarify this concept. Eternal life is life in Eternity. What is Eternity?

    Eternity is that time when we are bored out of our minds. We look at the clock and it stops. We want time to go faster, so we can be done with the boring task at hand. We constantly wait for the next moment and the next and the next. Each moment feels like what? Eternity!

    Meditation on God gets us intimately in touch with Eternity, so it does not seem like something we want to run away from but something we begin to want to dwell in.



    Questions
    How does Maya lure us into her trap?
    Does being unattached to Maya mean that we keep our affections to ourselves?
    I believe we have free will. Why does Kabir say that it is God that does everything?



    (Inspired by Ambarsaria ji's work on sukhmani, Bani of Sheikh Faird and Siddh Gost. Thanks! )
     
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    #1 BhagatSingh, Sep 15, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2012
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  3. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    CAN ONE REALLY "TRICK" ONES guru ?? iS THE PERSON SO tricked EVEN WORTHY OF BEING OR CAPABLE OF guru ??
     
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  4. Randip Singh

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    Not sure whether he was an orphan. I have heard various stories that he was actually a Hindu etc etc and adopted by Muslims. I actually think he was a Muslim, but grew up in Varnasi surrounded by Vaishnavites, He was heavily influenced by them.

    What had the most profound effect on him was the invasion of Timur, where thousands upon thousands of Hindu's were massacred, in the name of Islam. There is documentatory evidence in Timur's memoirs of Maulvi's and so called Muslim priests partacking in the massacre. It was at this point Bhagat Kabit became disillusioned with Islam and spoke out about the hypocrasy of Muslim Priests.

    He them embraced Vaishnavite dogma.
     
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  5. Randip Singh

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    From another thread:

    If you look at the History of when he grew up, he witnessed like Guru Nanak (invasion by Babur) a Muslim invasion by Timur, and incredible death and destruction.

    Memoirs of an Islamist - Timur

    Quote:
    125,000 infidels, impious idolaters, were on that day slain. Maulana Nasiru-d din ‘Umar, a counsellor and man of learning, who, in all his life, had never killed a sparrow, now, in execution of my order, slew with his sword fifteen idolatrous Hindus, who were his captives.


    Massacres in Varnasi were on a Massive scale. He witnesses so called religious holymen/Mullahs and Shaykhs killing people in the name of God. When Kabir ji is saying this:

    Quote:
    Kabeer: O Mullah, why do you climb to the top of the minaret? The Lord is not hard of hearing.

    Look within your own heart for the One, for whose sake you shout your prayers.

    Why does the Shaykh bother to go on pilgrimage to Mecca, if he is not content with himself?

    Kabeer, one whose heart is not healthy and whole - how can he attain his Lord?

    Kabeer, worship the Lord Allah; meditating in remembrance on Him, troubles and pains depart.

    The Lord shall be revealed within your own heart, and the burning fire within shall be extinguished by His Name.

    Kabeer, to use force is tyranny, even if you call it legal.

    When your account is called for in the Court of the Lord, what will your condition be then?

    Kabeer, the dinner of beans and rice is excellent, if it is flavored with salt.

    Who would cut his throat, to have meat with his bread?


    at the back of his mind is this:

    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/742629/posts


    Quote:
    Massacre of 125,000 Hindus At this Court Amir Jahan Shah and Amir Sulaiman Shah, and other amirs of experience, brought to my notice that, from the time of entering Hindustan up to the present time, we had taken more than 125,000 infidels and Hindus prisoners, and that they were all in my camp. On the previous day, when the enemy’s forces made the attack upon us, the prisoners made signs of rejoicing, uttered imprecations against us, and were ready, as soon as they heard of the enemy’s success, to form themselves into a body, break their bonds, plunder our tents, and then to go and join the enemy, and so increase his [p. 53] numbers and strength. I asked their advice about the prisoners, and they said that on the great day of battle these 125,000 prisoners could not be left with the baggage, and that it would be entirely opposed to the rules of war to set these idolaters and foes of Islam at liberty. In fact, no other course remained but that of making them all food for the sword. When I heard these words I found them in accord with the rules of war, and I directly gave my command for the Tawachis to proclaim throughout the camp that every man who had infidel prisoners was to put them to death, and whoever neglected to do so should himself be executed and his property given to the informer. When this order became known to the ghazis of Islam, they drew their swords and put their prisoners to death. 125,000 infidels, impious idolaters, were on that day slain. Maulana Nasiru-d din ‘Umar, a counsellor and man of learning, who, in all his life, had never killed a sparrow, now, in execution of my order, slew with his sword fifteen idolatrous Hindus, who were his captives.



    You can imagine this young devout Muslim, witnessing, so called fellow Muslims massacring his innocent Hindu neighbours. Probably people he knew. This must have had a profound effect on him.

    Everyone uses the same word for the son of Dasrath and the Wondrous Lord.
    Kabeer, use the word 'Raam', only to speak of the All-pervading Lord. You must make that distinction.
    One 'Raam' is pervading everywhere, while the other is contained only in himself.


    Here Kabir ji is clearly saying, look Oh Mullah we are all the same, whether we are Hindu or Muslim.
     
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  6. BhagatSingh

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    Guru Gobind Singh ji got tricked in to surrendering Anandpur and I still consider him my Guru.

    I think it just depends on how you define a Guru. To me a Guru is one who's teachings and personal life, serve as a role model for his Sikhs. Guru Gobind Singh ji is the example of an Ideal Man, he is a free man, a leader, excellent at many crafts, protector, provider, etc. That's something I want to emulate.
     
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    #5 BhagatSingh, Sep 16, 2012
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  7. BhagatSingh

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    Thanks Randip Singh ji, I have taken up this enormous task. Gona need all the help I can get. If there are any other resources you have on Kabir, now would be a good time to share them.

    Regards
     
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  8. namjiwankaur

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    SatNam _/|\_

    I gotta say that it bugs me that Maya is a "she". It reminds me of Eve being blamed for the expulsion when she and Adam got thrown out of paradise (the Biblical version) Christian women are supposed to blame Eve for "their condition". Oh, puhleeez! lol

    Why is Maya considered feminine? It seems she should be an it. Just sayin' lol

    But seriously, I read that originally humanity believed in a Mother Goddess. Patriarchy changed the stories of the Matriarchs of pantheons & they became subservient to the Supreme Male Deity. I am really sensitive to that. It seems this also happened in Hinduism & Judaism/Christianity.

    Women got a rotten deal the last few thousand years; lets elevate Her status back to Divine Mother. Lets prostrate at Her Beautiful Lotus Feet.

    OK, now that I got that out of my system lol , I'll move on to answer the questions asked.

    Hmmmm...now I'm going fickle again. My first reaction to the question "How does Maya lure us into her trap?" is to say that Maya is seductive. She likes to sit back in the subconscious whispering about sugar and gold. She minimizes the bad choices she tempts us to make by convincing us that the bad is not bad and the good doesn't matter. She takes us into the store and tells us we need a bigger tv, a faster car, a newer wardrobe.

    Does being unattached to Maya mean that we keep our affections to ourselves? I don't think so, but I wonder how we can be detached and express love at the same time. I know this is the koan I'm meant to work with right now, but I am having a tough time with this one. How can we love yet remain unattached? Maybe its to take the maya part out to purify the love part. Maybe its to love, but not to love something or someone as what it presents itself as. A young groom might love his wife's beauty, but will he love her as much fifty years later?

    I believe we have free will. Why does Kabir say that it is God that does everything? I believe we do also, but many times we have more choices than we believe we have. We think its yes, no and maybe.

    I basically think we are on some journey here and we will re-remember it after we die. We may think we are doing things just as we want to, but maybe that is part of the illusion. Maybe its all been planned out either by God alone or with God and/or other beings and that's why so many have experiences they refer to as "their destiny". I'm thinking of a book by Neil Donald Walsh called the Little Soul and the Sun.

    You can read it via a 2 part video at Youtube though it loses some of its message without the beautiful illustrations of the book. Anyway, here's the two parts of the video.

    The Little Soul and the Sun:
    Part One: The Little Soul and the Sun part 1 - YouTube
    Part Two: The Little Soul and the Sun Part 2 - YouTube

    From the perspective of the little soul, the little soul chose to enter the form of a human being to learn certain lessons. He agreed to suffer if it helped him learn those lessons.

    Is Ram a Sikh Name of God or is it the Name Rama that is used for the Divine in Hinduism?

    I have a big book of Kabir's poetry, maybe we can start a thread on his poetry also.

    Where is Ambarsaria's thread on sukhmani? I've been reading it slowly. It is has amazing power.

    mundahug



    Questions
    How does Maya lure us into her trap?
    Does being unattached to Maya mean that we keep our affections to ourselves?
    I believe we have free will. Why does Kabir say that it is God that does everything?



    (Inspired by Ambarsaria ji's work on sukhmani, Bani of Sheikh Faird and Siddh Gost. Thanks! )[/QUOTE]
     
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    #7 namjiwankaur, Sep 16, 2012
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  9. namjiwankaur

    namjiwankaur
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    Maybe the guru pretends he doesn't know he's being tricked? I've read similar things though about the games that happen between gurus and devotees. Maybe the guru is not omniscient either. I read the autobiography of a Sufi sheikh. He was quite a prankster when he was young. I wonder if that is part of the personality of a budding mystic.

    I think sometimes the "trick" is an illusion. It is really something God put in place using a guru to transmit the desired result.

    :thinkingkudi:


     
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  10. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Imho..NONE of those who "tricked" Guur Ji into vacating Anandpur ever became His SIKHS/CHELAS...Its NOT the same as what Kabir Ji supposedly did.

    GGS was not "tricked" per se..He was Given solemn OATHS sworn on Koran and Holy COW, PROMISED "Safe Passage" to vacate for just a "short period" and .."Then you can return..we have not lost face and we can go back to Delhi" was the so called promise by the mughal/Hindu rajah Forces. TO "beleive" in someones else s Solemn Oath sworn on his holy book/holy cow" is not called being tricked....OTHERWISE thousands of GUILTY MEN who swore such OATHS in Courts and told "LIES" could also be counted among the "successful TRICKERS" ??? and their Judges juries etc who beleived in the solemn oath as "got tricked"...Its not the same thing. Such doesnt lower the Jaudge/Jury and neither did it lower Guru Gobind Singh ji simply because he believed the OATH.

    The rest of the Post about how you define a GURU..is ok by me...
     
  11. BhagatSingh

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    Gyani Ji,
    Well Guru Ramanand took him as a disciple because of the cleverness of the trick Kabir used to obtain the Guru's Mantra (Gurmantra). Mantra is that phrase which is the closest to your heart. When we are children, our mantra is "Mom", we get hurt, we remember our mom, we get scared "Mommy!" Kabir basically got Guru Ramanand to utter out his mantra in front of Kabir. "Ram Ram!", exclaimed Guru Ramanand, thus revealing that which is closest to his heart.

    I would say that is pretty clever.

    Namjivan ji,
    Love the smiley since it captures the whole thing you said with just a smile.
     
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  12. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Yes Bhagat Singh ji......

    Btw..the Beas Guru whispers the Mantra in the ears of devotees who are INSTRUCTED never to reveal it even to family wife hisband etc...so maybe this "modern Guru" learnt this anti-trick mechanism from Bhagat Kabir Ji..he he...so he never cries out but WHISPERS...!!

    The PANJ in the presence of the SGGS give us the same thing...and here too the devotees come and ask for the Gift...

    Thanks for the explanations..
     
  13. Randip Singh

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    [/QUOTE]


    The reason why Bhaghat Kabir is not the very first Sikh Guru IS because of his views on women coflicted with the Nanakian concept of women, who were seen as equals and giving birth to Kings. One has to remember not all the Bani of Bhaghats was included in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji because it conflicted with Sikh thinking.

    Only those bits of Bhagat Bani that agrees with Nanakian philosophy is included in Bani. This applies to ALL Bhaghats.
     
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  14. BhagatSingh

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    Lol

    I have never heard that. But I think you'll find Dasam Granth pretty interesting if you identify with the Goddess more.

    ਸ੍ਵੈਯਾ ॥
    स्वैया ॥
    SWAYYA

    ਦੇਹ ਸਿਵਾ ਬਰੁ ਮੋਹਿ ਇਹੈ ਸੁਭ ਕਰਮਨ ਤੇ ਕਬਹੂੰ ਨ ਟਰੋਂ ॥
    देह सिवा बरु मोहि इहै सुभ करमन ते कबहूं न टरों ॥
    O Goddess, grant me this (boon) that I may not hesitate from performing good actions.

    ਨ ਡਰੋਂ ਅਰਿ ਸੋ ਜਬ ਜਾਇ ਲਰੋਂ ਨਿਸਚੈ ਕਰਿ ਅਪੁਨੀ ਜੀਤ ਕਰੋਂ ॥
    न डरों अरि सो जब जाइ लरों निसचै करि अपुनी जीत करों ॥
    I may not fear the enemy, when I go to fight and assuredly I may become victorious.

    ਅਰੁ ਸਿਖ ਹੋਂ ਆਪਨੇ ਹੀ ਮਨ ਕੌ ਇਹ ਲਾਲਚ ਹਉ ਗੁਨ ਤਉ ਉਚਰੋਂ ॥
    अरु सिख हों आपने ही मन कौ इह लालच हउ गुन तउ उचरों ॥
    And I may give this instruction to my mind and have this tempotration that I may ever utter Thy Praises.

    ਜਬ ਆਵ ਕੀ ਅਉਧ ਨਿਦਾਨ ਬਨੈ ਅਤਿ ਹੀ ਰਨ ਮੈ ਤਬ ਜੂਝ ਮਰੋਂ ॥੨੩੧॥
    जब आव की अउध निदान बनै अति ही रन मै तब जूझ मरों ॥२३१॥
    When the end of my life comes, then I may die fighting in the battlefield.231.

    ਚੰਡਿ ਚਰਿਤ੍ਰ ਕਵਿਤਨ ਮੈ ਬਰਨਿਓ ਸਭ ਹੀ ਰਸ ਰੁਦ੍ਰਮਈ ਹੈ ॥
    चंडि चरित्र कवितन मै बरनिओ सभ ही रस रुद्रमई है ॥
    I have narrated this Chandi Charitra in poetry, which is all full of Rudra Rasa (sentiment of rage).

    ਏਕ ਤੇ ਏਕ ਰਸਾਲ ਭਇਓ ਨਖ ਤੇ ਸਿਖ ਲਉ ਉਪਮਾ ਸੁ ਨਈ ਹੈ ॥
    एक ते एक रसाल भइओ नख ते सिख लउ उपमा सु नई है ॥
    The stanzas one and all, are beautifully composed, which contain new sillies from beginning to end.

    ਕਉਤਕ ਹੇਤ ਕਰੀ ਕਵਿ ਨੇ ਸਤਿਸਯ ਕੀ ਕਥਾ ਇਹ ਪੂਰੀ ਭਈ ਹੈ ॥
    कउतक हेत करी कवि ने सतिसय की कथा इह पूरी भई है ॥
    The poet hath composed it for the pleasure of his mind, and the discourse of seven hundred sholokas is completed here.

    ਜਾਹਿ ਨਮਿਤ ਪੜੈ ਸੁਨਿ ਹੈ ਨਰ ਸੋ ਨਿਸਚੈ ਕਰਿ ਤਾਹਿ ਦਈ ਹੈ ॥੨੩੨॥
    जाहि नमित पड़ै सुनि है नर सो निसचै करि ताहि दई है ॥२३२॥
    For whatever purpose a person ready it or listens to it, the Goddess will assuredly grant him that.232.
    page 240, Dasam Granth

    Guru Gobind Singh ji asks the power of God, this material force, for the power to fight in battle.

    The material world is the Shakti (Goddess) of God, this Shakti of God (this power of God) is Maya, the material world. Shakti, Lakshmi, Shri, these are all referring to this aspect of the Divine.

    Imagine a Fire, this is Brahmn (or Hari or Ram or Waheguru), the Ultimate Reality, the Divine. The light it gives off is Hari, universal conscious force, the heat that is felt is Lakshmi, universal material force (Mother Nature if you will).

    The Ultimate Reality and Universal conscious force is often lumped together in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, and this force is WED to Matter/Material force. The fire and light are often lumped together, as fire, which is wed to the heat. The reason being : consciousness is the nature of the thing we are talking about, whreas it's pwoer is the effect that is felt. Light is the nature of Fire, Heat is it's power.

    When Hari (read: consciousness) copulates with Lakshmi (read: matter), this is the birth of the universe and it's lifeforms, including Man and Woman.

    Fun facts of Northern India: Those wanting spiritual wealth and power pray to and meditate on Hari, whilst those wanting material wealth and power pray to and meditate on Lakshmi.

    If it makes you feel any better men have gotten a worse deal since the birth of human race, and they still are in the same position.

    All of which pertain to the feminine. Any examples you can think of that pertain to the masculine?

    Well Maya is infecting our affections with the poison of attachment.

    I think there are four ways of doing this. One is to be super aware 24/7, when you express affections, when you don't express them, etc. Be highly aware of yourself all the time, so you can watch the arising of attachment.


    Two, attachment is an unconscious process, it happens of its own accord. What we can do to minimize it, is to let it be, while we focus our minds on God. You will lose yourself in the Love for God.

    Three, read about attachment, be knowledgeable about it, and when it strikes you, watch out. Read other people's experiences. Know the different ways in which attachment can strike you.

    Fourth is to practice willpower to decide you are going to do something, and then sticking to your decision and then doing it. Whether you fail or succeed has no effect on the workout you just did on willpower, meaning your willpower strengthens whether you did you job properly or not, as long as you did it. Practice of dettachment comes naturally from the Right practice of Willpower i.e. using willpower to stay away from self-indulgence.

    Or you can combine all of these together like Sikhism.

    The first one made me cry so I didn't watch the second one.


    Ram/Rama is the Sikh Name of God.

    !!!!! awesome!

    I thin I am going to deal only with Kabir's poetry as presented in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

    View all threads in Ambarsaria's profile sukhmani will show up.
     
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