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Bakra At Janeau Ceremony !!

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by Gyani Jarnail Singh, Dec 14, 2004.

  1. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
    Mentor Writer SPNer Contributor

    Jul 4, 2004
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    Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki fateh.

    I was just reading about Guru Nanank Ji's Life story and I came across this reference to the things that were at the janeau putting veremony....and the author mentioned that a LIVE GOAT was also there as well to be cooked for the people present.

    Then I read Guru nanak Ji's Asa Di waar about this incident and I saw that this is indeed true. Guru Ji says so in the following slok in Asa Di Waar.... that the GOAT is killed and its meat is eaten..

    SO what does this prove..regarding modern sikh 'theories" about vegetarianism...... I would like to hear other plausible explanations about this.

    HmÚ 1 ]

    ma 1 ||
    First Mehl:

    lK corIAw lK jwrIAw lK kUVIAw lK gwil ]
    lakh choreeaa lakh jaareeaa lakh koorreeaa lakh gaal ||
    He commits thousands of robberies, thousands of acts of adultery, thousands of falsehoods and thousands of abuses.

    lK TgIAw pihnwmIAw rwiq idnsu jIA nwil ]
    lakh t(h)ageeaa pehinaameeaa raath dhinas jeea naal ||
    He practices thousands of deceptions and secret deeds, night and day, against his fellow beings.

    qgu kpwhhu kqIAY bwm@xu vty Awie ]
    thag kapaahahu katheeai baamhan vattae aae ||
    The thread is spun from cotton, and the Brahmin comes and twists it.

    kuih bkrw irMin@ KwieAw sBu ko AwKY pwie ]
    kuhi bakaraa ri(n)nih khaaeiaa sabh ko aakhai paae ||
    The goat is killed, cooked and eaten, and everyone then says, ""Put on the sacred thread.""

    hoie purwxw sutIAY BI iPir pweIAY horu ]
    hoe puraanaa sutteeai bhee fir paaeeai hor ||
    When it wears out, it is thrown away, and another one is put on.

    nwnk qgu n quteI jy qig hovY joru ]2]
    naanak thag n thuttee jae thag hovai jor ||2||
    O Nanak, the thread would not break, if it had any real strength. ||2||

    Jarnail Singh:)

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  3. Sher_Singh

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    Nov 10, 2004
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    Guru Fateh,

    This verse IMHO does not say anything about the issue of meat in Sikhi, but is regarding meat in HINDU ceremony of the janeau.

    Guru Fateh,

  4. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
    Mentor Writer SPNer Contributor

    Jul 4, 2004
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    Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki fateh.

    Veer Ji imho that is a flawed approach. GURU NANAK jis started the SIKH religion which was a Different religion from the prevalent ones. GURBANI is for the Sikhs/by the Sikhs/of the Sikhs....therefore we cannot escape from this..by saying: "oh THAT is not for me..it is about the hindus/muslims and meant for them..."

    IF we do that and say this particular gurbani is about a "hindu" ceremony..then we will be "forced" to admit that whatever Bhagts kabir/Sheikh farid write about Hallal, etc is ONLY ADVICE TO MUSLIMS....and have "nothing to do with the meat issue in SIKHI" ??

    MOST "vegetarian" proponents USE these VERY SHABADS by Bhagat kabeer as Justification that MEAT is BANNED in Sikhi.....it is bad etc..and we should be VEGETARIANS.... ??? so where do we go from here ?? Do you get my line of argument.??

    Guur Nanak ji's famous shabad..Maas Maas Kar MOORAKH jhagrreh... is direct advice to a BRAHMIN..BUT it is MEANT for us SIKHS. Obvioulsy GURU JI could only advise "brahmins" as SIKHS were not around yet.... and "SIKHS" were not around at the JANEAU ceremony of Guru nanak Ji....so IF GURU JI is writing about this live GOAT/ MEAT at this ceremony its RELEVANCE is to SIKHS....not "BRAHMINS/HINDUS" as GURBANI is not a "hindu/brahmin" religious text..and GURU nanak ji was not writing for the Hindus/brahmins but for SIKHS...here Bhagat ji is also addressing Muslims..BUT the underlying message is relevant to SIKHS..otherwise GURU JI wouldnt have added this to Guru Granth Ji...

    Here we are also to notice that the Hallal/killing chickens etc etc is NOT about "MEAT" per se....it is about the "PRINCIPLE" of "kurbani, sacrifice" etc etc THAT are being condemned by Kabeer Ji... I have always maintained and GURU JI also showed that by example that no "GIFT" is greater than ones OWN LIFE...so IF one "loves" God so much then what is the use of offerring Him a cheap gift like a chicken/goat/cow/sheep/camel...why NOT offer Him YOUR OWN LIFE !! This is Precisely what Kabeer is QUESTIONING..meat chicken fish etc is just an example !! "SACRIFICIAL MEAT" is banned in SIKHI because of thsi underlying FLAW in the principle of kurbani sacrifice condemned in Gurbani. Since Sacrifice/kurbani/hallal/non-hallal is NOT a SIKHI thing and applicable ONLY to MUSLIMS...the REASON this shabad is admitted by GURU JI as GURBANI in GURU GRANTH is because it has relevance to SIKHS..and SIKHS henceforth Gave their OWN LIVES willingly to GOD...and we dont kill innocent chickens goats for sacrifice to GOD/ to satisfy God !!!

    We will understand this point when we read Kabir Ji emphasising on JOR - OPPRESSION..you see that the poor chicken/goat/coe w etc has NO WISH to die as a sacrifice...IT is FORCED to do our will and get its throat cut.. ? Kabir Ji is right in questioning that what type of sacriifce it is IF there is NO WILLINGNESS on the part of the one being killed ??..

    And secondly Kabir Ji is questioning who say very loudly... ALLAH IS IN "ALL" things...and then happily turn around and tie up the helpless cow and cut its throat !!! THAT is the flawed approach being questioned in Jab sabh mehn ek khudai kahet haoh TAU KION MURGEE MAREH ?? ( where in this line is there a question about KILLING and eating Chicken meat for FOOD ??..not even REMOTELY POSSIBLE to come to that conclusion..yet proponents of Vegetarianism quote this kion murgee mareh kion murgee mareh like a broken record...) The ENTIRE shabad is about SACRIFICE/KURBANI/RITUAL KILLING to make God Happy .

    kbIr jIA ju mwrih joru kir khqy hih ju hlwlu ]
    kabeer jeea j maarehi jor kar kehathae hehi j halaal ||
    Kabeer, they oppress living beings and kill them, and call it proper.
    kbIr jorI kIey julmu hY khqw nwau hlwlu ]
    kabeer joree keeeae julam hai kehathaa naao halaal ||
    Kabeer, to use force is tyranny, even if you call it legal.
    jau sB mih eyku Kudwie khq hau qau ikau murgI mwrY ]1]
    jo sabh mehi eaek khudhaae kehath ho tho kio muragee maarai ||1||
    You say that the One Lord is in all, so why do you kill chickens? ||1||

    pkir jIau AwinAw dyh ibnwsI mwtI kau ibsimil kIAw ]
    pakar jeeo aaniaa dhaeh binaasee maattee ko bisamil keeaa ||
    You seize a living creature, and then bring it home and kill its body; you have killed only the clay.

    joiq srUp Anwhq lwgI khu hlwlu ikAw kIAw ]2]
    joth saroop anaahath laagee kahu halaal kiaa keeaa ||2||
    The light of the soul passes into another form. So tell me, what have you killed? ||2||

    ikAw aujU pwku kIAw muhu DoieAw ikAw msIiq isru lwieAw ]
    kiaa oujoo paak keeaa muhu dhhoeiaa kiaa maseeth sir laaeiaa ||
    And what good are your purifications? Why do you bother to wash your face? And why do you bother to bow your head in the mosque?

    jau idl mih kptu invwj gujwrhu ikAw hj kwbY jwieAw ]3]
    jo dhil mehi kapatt nivaaj gujaarahu kiaa haj kaabai jaaeiaa ||3||
    Your heart is full of hypocrisy; what good are your prayers or your pilgrimage to Mecca? ||3||

    qUM nwpwku pwku nhI sUiJAw iqs kw mrmu n jwinAw ]
    thoo(n) naapaak paak nehee soojhiaa this kaa maram n jaaniaa ||
    You are impure; you do not understand the Pure Lord. You do not know His Mystery.
    kih kbIr iBsiq qy cUkw dojk isau mnu mwinAw ]4]4]
    kehi kabeer bhisath thae chookaa dhojak sio man maaniaa ||4||4||
    Says Kabeer, you have missed out on paradise; your mind is set on hell. ||4||4||

    Warmest Regards to all
    Jarnail Singh

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