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Authenticty of Zafarnama

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by kds1980, Aug 22, 2006.

  1. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    today i went on the site http://www.zafarnama.com/

    and i read the following about zafarnama

    How did the Zafarnama, in its present form, reach us? Original letter written in the hand of Guru Ji in not available. However it is said that a copy of Zafarnama, written in the hand of Guru Ji, was found with the Mahant of Patna Sahib in 1890 and one Babu Jagan Nath made a copy; this copy was somehow misplaced by him. Since Babu Jagan Nath was himself a scholar in Persian language, he could reproduce it from his memory and got it printed in Nagri Parcharni Patrika in Benaras. He is also believed to have sent a copy to Sardar Umrao Singh Shergill in Amritsar who is said to have given it to Khalsa college and which in turn reproduced in Makhz-e Twarikh Sikhan

    -------------------------------------------------

    my question is zafarnama authentic.how could we beleive that zafarnama is authentic when we don't have original copy of zafarnama.even the copy of
    zafarnama is misplaced by babu jagan nath and he wrote the zafarnama from his memory.i also downloaded the fatehnama from that site.
    my another question is why fateh nama is not the part of dasam granth.

    also i found that fatehnama and zafarnama
    contradictory.in fatehnama guru ji said

    TU AZ NAAZ-O NE-MAT SAMAR KHORDEH
    Z JANGI JAWAANAN NA BAR KHORDEH
    *TU- you *AZ-from *NAAZ-coyness *NE-MAT-easy life, comfort *SAMAR- fruit, yield *KHORDEH- eaten
    (from “KHORDAN- to eat) *Z- from * JANGI JAWAANAN- the warriors *NA- not *BAR-at, on
    So far you have been enjoying the fruits of a cosy and comfortable
    life but never faced the fierce warriors (in the battle field ).
    24 b-mEd" iby; <ud b; teGo tbr

    while in zafarnama guru ji praised aurangzeb and said

    Aurangzeb is wise and knowledgeable and is skilful wielder of the
    sword. He is the provider of all the necessities of the people and
    lords over the world with his military might.

    here i want to know why guru ji praised aurangzeb

    after reading the both fateh nama and zafarnama
    it looked like that fatehnama is more authentic than zafarnama because in fatehnama guru ji severly criticised the aurangzeb.while in zafarnama guru ji
    praised him and id don't think he was the kind of person to be praised
     
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  3. dalsingh

    dalsingh
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    I've always wondered why Fatehnama wasn't in the Dasam Granth. So was Zafarnama added to the DG at a recent stage then? Whoops hang on.....we aren't allowed to discuss the DG according to Mr. Vedanti.

    We may as well stop thinking for ourselves next.
     
  4. vijaydeep Singh

    vijaydeep Singh
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    Gurfateh

    Guru there has used the satire or Vyangya.Das hope you have got it.anyway one more thing over there that we need to see the detail of Farsi style,Chrnology as well as embedsding of Arebic and Indian words.they are a sort of siganture of the writer.

    so we can comapre JangNammah as well as Jafernammah on that account.Guru in Jaffernaaham tells that Aurnga is clever like fox.He did wrong by not obeying the ougthn of Holy Kuran.By that Guru is blessed by Allah in this world and that world but Auranga has lost.
     
  5. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    vijaydeep ji so you want to say that that guru ji was teasing aurangzeb
    where he is praising him in zafarnama.
     
  6. vijaydeep Singh

    vijaydeep Singh
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    Gurfateh

    It is type of poetary called Vyangatmak Shaili or type of sttaire.

    When Auranzeb said to Chhatrapati Shivaji that your like my young brother.

    Shivaji told him ya you have well treated your brothers perhaps(Aurnaga killed all his three brothers by decptions).
     
  7. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    perhaps you are right but what about my authenticity question.should we trust the memory of babu jagan nath?
     
  8. vijaydeep Singh

    vijaydeep Singh
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    Gurfateh
    As term Hiqyats are given over here.It is unlikly that authanctic version of Dasham Granth in Hanuman Road Delhi or say one in Nabha or Patna sahib will be devoid of 11 Hiqayats and Jaffernaammah is part of it.

    It is wrong over here by wing comander if he says that oldets copy was there in 1890.It could be a sort of false rumours by anti Dasham Granth people.As old version is still here and older than 1890.

    Das will put more detail on it soon.
     
  9. vijaydeep Singh

    vijaydeep Singh
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    Gurfateh
    Das here refers to book by Gyani Bhag Singh Ambala Sahib against Dasham Granth.As per that first or Bhai Mani Singh version is said to be by 1725 Ad @And Baba Deep Singh version about 2 years after and Patna Sahib version about 15 years after that.

    Bhai Mani Singh vwersion ends with Hiqayats.They are eleven and first if Jaffernammah.Wing CDr is wrong when he says that Hiqayat means stroy in farsi.He is either novice or either trying to act smart.

    hiqayat is meant by Chapter while term Dastaan(procnuced dastoon in colliquel form) is for story.Das will try to verify from a book published by Gobid Sadan or from Patna Sahib,and 99% in patna Sahib copy we also haver all hiqayats.

    So as we had four copies older then 1890 with jaffernamah,it is unlikly that jaffernamah could be lost.

    There is trend to even doubt Japu Sahib,Akalustat etc. As they also seem a sort of Brahmanical concpiracies.So Jaffernamah could be doubted as Islamic conspiracy but when similar things will be quoted from Guru Granth Sahib Ji,then what will happen?
     
  10. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Its "funny" that only those "Sikhs" who accept the DG in TOTALITY..chirtars and all as Guur Jis wriitngs..ALWAYS..raise the "Question mark" against Sahib Sri Guru Granth sahib Jee...they will rasie this bogey..what will happen IF..IF..IF such questions are asked baout SGGS..what will happen IF somebody comes along and says..remove Bhagat bani..remove Slok Farid Ji..etc etc Blah blah Blah...from SGGS..then WHAT will happen ??

    SOME of these Fiercly PRO DG (110%) chiratrs and hiqayats and all..have been raising such questions about SGGS for the past 10 years on the Intenret ( I know as I have repeatedly SHOT them down )...sometimes it is a question like..Did Guur nank ji have Bhagat kabir Jis Bani with Him..then is it not true that Bhagat Kabir is teh "real GURU" and not Guru nanak ji ?? soemtimes they say Baba sunder Ji is not even born when he wrote the SADD Ramkali...and that this bani is all about Keso Gopal Pandits and Purans and "maybe" Guru Amardass ji DID ask the Pandits to read the Purans blah blah blah..other times these people come out straight and attack the bani of Bhagats as Chhorreh Chamairs and low castes..how could they be "SATGUR"..and sit beside the GURU SAHIBS as equals...and they quote''"Satgur bina hor kachee bani..in anand sahib.....

    I have yet to come across a SINGLE SIKH who beleives 110% in SAHIB SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JEE as the ONE and ONLY GURU of SIKHS bestowed that Gurgadhee by none other than Guur Gobind Singh ji himslef in 1708...ever "dare to rasie such BLASPHEMY against His GURU. Such Sikhs MAY NOT beleive n DG entirely....some like ME REJECT it all in its ENTIRETY..but we NEVER raise any questions about SGGS..the DG supporters ALWAYS raise such DOUBTS about SGGS !!! WHY ??

    I beleive that doubts are raised to "frighten" the SIKHS..either BELIEVE in DG 110^% like us..OR we will RAISE DOUBTS about SGGS and bring "it" down !!! The SGGS is the One and ONLY LIving GURU of the Guru Khalsa Panth..that POSITION is BEYOND DOUBT. SGGS is also Bound and SEALED..no changes allowed..and NO other "granth" will be allowed to STAND EQUAL to SGGS on its THRONE GURGADHEE.

    More and more moderators of Sikh Forums are beginning to see this trend... read any post on DG...somewhere and somehow..the writer will bring in DOUBTS about SGGS...and say things which are NOT "in the mind" of any SIKH who beleives in HIS GURU---SGGS. The ENTIRE SGGS can be READ OUT ALOUD in SANGAT..men women and children..wives and daughters..sasses and noohan..bhabian and bhenna..mattas and grandmothers...brothers, fathers all can sit and listen...NOT so "DG and its Chitrapakhoyans and Hiqayats....how could DIVINE MESSAGE be meant to be "MUMBLED" in SECRET ?? GURU SAHIBS travelled the World to Spread their MESSAGE of DIVINITY..NO GURU would write shameful/Vulgar words that cannot be read by a daughter and father sitting together !! AT Hazoor Sahib nad Patna Sahib..the Chitras are NOT READ ALOUD..NO HUKMNAMAS are taken from those pages...WHY ?? IS this done to any AAngs of SGGS ??...LOUDSPEAKERS blare the entire 1430 aangs of SGGS all over the world for all to hear...

    Jarnail Singh Gyani Arshi
     
  11. vijaydeep Singh

    vijaydeep Singh
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    Gurfateh

    Gyani Sahib Ji,

    Das has disscuused various Triya Chartiars including which people may say are not Ok with his mother.When Guru is there then no emotion and not worldly and faimly realtions.

    anyway over here no one was doubting Adi Guru Granth Sahib our eternal Guru(but Guruhood was bestoeved by Tenth Master on his going to Sachkhand but from the time First Master behold his Guru as Sabad).

    But doubt were raised about if Jaffernamah is fake or OK one.It is not the supporter of Dasham Granth who write in spokesmen but people anti to That.

    when we who support Dasham Granth Sahib try to bring Verse from Guru Granth Sahib Ji,which support the verse from Dasham Granth as valid upto Yardstick of Gurbani,they tend to run away and state that such verses of Guru Granth Sahib Ji are inperpolation.

    das would like to know the name of the person who supports Dasham Granth and oppses the vlidity of Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
     

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