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Atmik Vichaar

Discussion in 'Discourses in English' started by sunsingh, Aug 3, 2008.

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  1. sunsingh

    sunsingh
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    This is a translation from an older Q&A with Sant Jagjit Singh ji Harkhowal wale from around one year ago.
    Part 1 of older Q&A

    1. What is sachkhand? is sachkhand a place as beleived by nanaksar samparda - physical place or a state of mind/nirvakalap samadi beleived by nirmale upsamparda of bhai dya singh ji?

    - Sant ji said that nanaksar beleif in sachkhand being sargun place (one place), and hoti mardan samparda beleived in nirvakalap samadhi/sarab vyapak. He said bhagat who does sargun upasana of guru nanak dev sees guru nanak dev ji being in sachkhand also have same avastha as bhramgyani of nirgun upasak, only difference nirgun upasak see sachkhand being sarab vyapak(seeing bhram everywhere/everything) but sargun upasak sees an certain place, person as vahiguroo in one set place, sargun upasak also merges with nirankar with an help of sargun vahiguroo. However, nirgun upasana(vairaat) is higher than sargun upasana, nirgun upasana should be ultimate goal. There is no difference in avastha, however sargun upasak of sri guru nanak dev ji eventually either by himself or by sri guru nanak dev ji get their birthi livleen(merge) in nirgun. Where there is no shabad, no dhuni nothing just full nirvakalp samadhi with nirgun paratma.


    2. Sikhs beleive in first dhuni(resosance) is ong, hindus beleive in first dhuni in aum, islam beleive in first dhuni being kun which one is it?

    Sant ji said the whole creation is made in maya(upadi). Even dhuni has an element of upadi. Therefore, nirgun paratma doesnt have any change. All the dhunis are there, there are all lower than nirvakalap samadhi. In that stage, there is no shabad nor there is a dhuni. just vismaad avastha.


    3. According to sankarcharaya mat, there is no need for guruparsad, they say just do atama khoj within one self to find paratma. However gurmat beleives in both gurparsad as well as atama khoj within one self?

    Sant ji replied, if one is atamgyani in other words if one has birthi liv leen in atma. Then at that point in essence for them there is no need for guru. However for jaiagaso, there is 110% need for Guru. Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji is gyan datta. If one reads gurbani and instead of peace, gets sansa/doubts their mind how do they get rid of them? For that you need a guide who have expereinced gurbani on a spiritual level.

    4. What are 25 Parkrityas?

    - Sant Ji said, there are five elements- sky, air, water, fire, earth. Each elements further gets divided into 4 additional sub elements along with its orginal element(tats). To read further read into this, sant ji gave an excellent reference guide called- vedant pardipaka written by baba ji themselves. I will be in future putting this vedant pardipaka online.

    5. After reading and understanding gurbani, one can overcome- pranmay kosh, aanmay kosh, manmay kosh via meditation on dasam dwara. How can one remove parda of vigyan may kosh/anand may kosh?

    - Sant Ji said when dhyaan gets merged in atma, then vigyan may kosh parda is also removed because if there is no anmay kosh then natually there is no pran may kosh, manmay kosh vigyanmay kosh, with an support of anmay kosh, buddi is there. without annmaykosh, buddi is sunn. Now moving towards anandmay kosh, when birthi resides in anandmay kosh, that is sukhopati avastha. All three avastha- jagrath, supan, sukhopati avastha is directly related to this physical body. Fourth state- turiya avastha is above the physical body, panj koshas. Turiya is directly linked with atma.

    6. Yogis do abhyaas on the pranas, eg- putting pressure on their breath taking towards navel to open kundalini chakar. What do gursikhs do? Do they also put pressure on navel via pranas or they take their dhyan on navel have their kundalini open?

    Sant ji said all the chakras- nabhi, hirda, kant, trikurti charkas are just focal point(targets) where one according to they mat they belong to concentrate on so that mind doesnt wander away, it stays within the shabad. But real dhyaan is nirgun vairaat upasana which is naam jaap on ravaya paremshvar(sarab vyapak/everywhere) and seeing ravaya paremshvar(vahiguroo) in all parpaanch (everywhere). All these dhyaans on chakras are small small dhyaans so that mind doesnt wander. Some people idiolize mooratiya, yogis idiolize chakras. By idiolizing mooratiya or chakras, steady avastha is not attainable.


    7. For jaagiaso, shabad surat marg is good or nirgun upaasana?

    - Surat means listening, Nirat means dekhna(seeing), usually people misunderstand the meaning of surat. When birthi rise above both from surat/nirat then only birthi merges with atma. Shabad is one of technique used in to get mind concentrate in meditation. When one reaches nirvakalp samadhi, shabad also stays below, because shabad belongs to void/ether/sky element. Shabad means akhar, shabad also means bhram. Birthi negates akhar, however akhar which indicates attributes of Vahiguroo or Vahiguroo doesnt get destroyed, birthi resides there.

    Eh akhar kirh jaingaie, vo akhar inn mein nahi |

    Akhar Dristh Man Jaita Nanak Parbhram Nirlaipa ||

    Akhar is an technique to give gyan, when gyan is attained akhar stays below.

    8. How much of our soul is individual(jiv atma) and how much is it paratma?

    - Sant Ji said, Jivatma- Paratma are one. Paratama is sarab vypaak(everywhere). Atma is partibin* of paratma and Jiv atma is partibin of paratma but under maya which is called-Ishver. Partibin in buddhi is atma. Partibin in Antish karan is jiv atma. Jiv atma- Paratma are one and same but only appears different because of upadi(change). EG- There are many types of akash- ghara akah, mata akash etc. But akash is only one- Mahaakash is only one and only.

    *partibin- Pratbimbh is one of the explanations for the existential existence of jeev atma...reflection, it is merely the reflection of parmatma (with the sense of individuation). The other is avacched, which is the colouring of difference, i.e. upaadhi (like the colouring of a diamond by a flower).


    9. When person dies, at the moment of death if person mind gets attuned to sargun(phsyical) saroop of vahiguroo, their gati(status) after death is of that lok. In jivan kiranie, sant jawala singh ji maharaj gave updesh to janak singh. please shed some light on this?

    Sant ji said, sargun dhyaan is just an way to stop your mind wandering around, and to make your mind subtle attuned to meditation. Ultimately, dhyaan should merge in nirgun. Sargun upasana/dhyaan is also one of the way to get mukhti. Sant ji said, first mind have to make sakar(akar) dhyaan then nirakar avastha comes, then one have to take dhyaan out from sakar(akar/form) and then attach it towards nirakar. It takes time, Why not in beginning to save time have the dhyaan towards niraakar via shabad?

    10. What is baikhunt?

    - Baikhunt means khuntanth ho jana. At the state of Baikhunt- mind stops wandering, mind gets merges(leen) with vahiguroo, when birthi becomes anand saroop it called biakhunt. Begumpura is without gum is also same thing.

    Baikhunt nagar jeha sant vasa ||

    11. At the moment of death, if jaagaso is meditating upon shabad, can jaigaso can attain vedah mukh avastha?

    - If jaigso attains jevan mukht avastha becomes bhramgyani while in physical body after death then only one can attain vedah mukh avastha. Note: I ll clarify further with sant ji regarding gaati of jaiagaso who dies at the time of reciting gurbani.

    12. Whatever is happening in saupan avastha? is it from jagrath avastha?

    - Sant ji said, whatever you see in saupan avastha is an film of jagrath avastha either from this life or previous life.

    In sukhopat avastha, buddhi becomes jarr(matter). All three avastha is also agyan avastha. Everyone have jagrath, suapan, sukhopat avastha. Turiya avastha is attained by only few ones.

    13. When we get different types of dreams is that our thoughts from previous life?

    Sants ji said, when we are dreaming, dhyaan resides in extremely subtle vein in our body called heta(vein) which is 1000 times even more subtle than hair. When dhyaan resides in that nari, thoughts from previous life/this life comes forward in form of dreams.

    14. How many tats devi/devta's, bhoot, praits have?

    - Seventeen tats consists of 5 pran, 5 gyan indrae, 5 karam indraie, antish karan, ahankar.

    15. How does parlo work?

    - Sant ji said when parlo comes earth gets merges into water, then waters merges in fire, fire merges in air, air merges into sky. The whole world gets destroyed, jev atma doesnt get destroyed however they get merged back in maya because they they dont themselves have energy to come back to this world because of their really bad karams, there they beg for their salvation. After then whenever akaal purkh gets an forna to transcedent itself into many, this jiv atma gets another chance and they come to do this earth.

    When maha parlo occurs everything gets merges back in nirgun paratma including bhram, vishnu, shiva, isher, maya.

    Parlo comes in many forms from earth quakes, tsaunamis, lightning, flood, valcanoes etc etc


    16. Can we contemplate on our own vairaat saroop as well like how krishan maharaj contemplate on his vairaat saroop and how krishan maharaj showed his vairaat saroop to arjan ji -

    - Sant ji said, krishan showed huge saroop of Isher(Sargun form of God) in which 7 ethers/sky are consider isher (head), 7 patals are consider his feets, vital force system is consider his nostrils, chand(moon) and sooraj(sun) are considered his eyes. His heart is considered as Vishnu and bhram and shiv are considerd his two hands. All nadis(ocean) are consider his veins and all the mountains are consider his bones and all the nature are considered his praticles(rom).

    We cannot contemplate on our own vairaat saroop because we are not made of shud satogun(maya). Avtars are made of maya, they make their own body as big they want or as small they want.

    17. What are antriv arth of Ik ong kar?

    - Ik is advait, ik roop(non duality), according to vedant ong/aum is akar, aukar, makar, according to different school of thoughts ong its parkash roop. Kar is vachaak of maya- isher.

    18. When we say in ardas- Raj Karega Khalsa akhai Rahe Na Koi?

    Any prani who has tasted atam ras is khalsa. He/She could be from any bhek, mat.

    19. When we do vairaat upasana can it be in mool mantar or one shabad abhyaas?

    - Sant ji said, do vairaat upasana in shabad abhyaas and recite mool mantar with your tongue, listen the sound of mool mantar with your ears.

    20. Any message to the sikh youths who are walking on this spiritual path?

    - Sant ji said, they should get up early in the morning atleast 4 am, do 5 mala of mool mantar, do japji sahib, rehras, kirtan sohila, do darshan of guru sahib in gurdwara sahib twice a day. Do seva in langar, joraie di seva, kirtan seva if one knows who to do kirtan, youths should stay away from kusangat(bad sangat), youths should learn ithaas, teekas from puratan samparda- nirmale, taksal, sevapanthis etc etc.

    Q&A and translation by N3O from www.{url not allowed} :: Index
     
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  3. sunsingh

    sunsingh
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    Discussion with Sant Jagjit Singh Ji Harkhowale (2nd part):

    1. Our Sukhsam sirar ( 2nd astral layer of body) is it jarr(void/cannot give energy on its own to itself) or chaitan (supported by atma) ?

    - Sant ji said, sukhsam sirar is also jarr along with panj tats/five elements, karan sirar(3rd layer of body) as well as maya. For example: All bulbs are dead without electric current, take all the layers of our body, maya as bulbs, an electric current being atma. Without atma, its all dead(jar).

    Sukhsam sirar is just subtle form of five elements we are made of- sky, air, fire, water, earth. And 3rd layer-Karan Sirar is even more subtle form of sukhasam sirar(2nd layer).


    2. Shabad Guru talks about anand/paramanad/vismaad avastha, are they under anandmay kosh(sheat) or above than anandmay kosh?

    - Sant ji said, they are not part of anandmaykos, there are three types of anand- peraie, mod, parmod.

    a) Peeraie Anand - Peeraie anand would be for eg- Mother who just heard a news from a freind that she has seen her son, by listening to that - anand/happiness she gets thats peeraie anand.

    b) Mod Anand: When mother gets united with her son, that anand she gets by hugging her is mod anand.

    c) Parmod anand: When mother feeds her children, that anand she gets by that, thats called parmod anand.

    Sant ji said, all these three types of anand is also applied to spirituality for eg:

    - When we hear(sunan) har ki katha (katha of vahiguroo) we get peeraie anand.

    - When we apply(mannan) spiritual discourses to our lives we get mod anand.

    - When we act upon/contemplate(nidasan) on spiritual discourses that anand avastha is parmod avastha.

    Now above all three types of anand, state is called vismaad avastha, which cannot be explained or described, people call it by different names wonderful, sauban, vah vah.

    All the mantars means the same may sound differntly: some orders of christianity say it wonderful, some orders in jaudism its jewoh, for muslims its suban, for hindu its ascharj, our sikhs have- vahiguroo.

    There are two types of names of Vahiguroo-

    Kirtam naam - derived from attributes of God
    Akirtam Naam: Its one meaning that shared by all.


    All five koshas directly belongs to three layers of body- anmaykosh relates to physical body(made of 5 elements), pranmaykosh, manmaykos, vigyankosh belongs to subtle body(sukhsam sirar(made of 17 elements) and finally anandmay kosh belongs to karan sirar (made of illusion). All koshas exist in agyan avastha, in gyan avastha there is only one and one atma which is above all- 5 elements/5 senses/5 karam indraes/5 prans/5 koshas/man/chit/budh.


    3. When we do dhyaan of atma, we get atam anand, does that also comes under anandmay kos?

    - Sant ji said, When we do shabad abhyaas, our mind gets directly attached to atma. Anandmay kosh which is through sukhopati avastha that is also supported by atma, however one is direct and ever lasting and other is indirect and depends on the change. for eg- In anandmay kosh which is through sukhopati avastha, son gets anand seeing her mother, hugging her mother, being fed by his mother but when mother dies, where is the anand? There is no change in atam anand, its one ras(without change) as compare to anand in sukhopati avastha which we see anand coming from materialstic things, human being which are not permanent.

    4. Whats the best technique to take birthi(dhyaan) above from all the senses and koshas(sheats) into realm of atma? is it sitting in one place doing shabad abhyas along with nirgun upasana for hrs or with help of bibek buddhi start doing vichar on atma that atma is everywhere, all around us, in each of us while eating, sleeping, walking, talking?

    - Sant ji said, when birthi(dhyaan/concentration) is vulnerable to thoughts coming in and out as as result mind wandering in all directions then its recommended to sit in asan and do abhyaas along with nirgun upasana. When birthi (dhyaan) becomes solid/merges in atma then there is no need to sit in meditaiton, one can do vahiguroo dhyaan, nirgun upasana while by sitting, walking, talking, working. However, you see sant mahatamas who are in bhramgyan stage sitting down in samadhi, there is no need for them to sit and do dhyaan of vahiguroo they can fully do it while eating, sleeping, walking, talking. The reason they still sit in samadhi despite of their attainment of highest state so that their students doesnt go astray by copying their style.


    5. When jaigaso dies who have all his/her life did prema bhakti, shabad abhyaas. However still couldnt quite get to jevan mukht avasta. At the moment of death, he/she passes away reciting shabad or simran. What will be his/her status after death? would he/she get vedah mukht avastha which is total merge with vahiguroo, not coming back to this world ?

    - Sant ji said, without jevan mukht, vedah mukht is not possible. Without bhramgyan, vedah mukht(total merge with vahiguroo) its not possible. If jaiagaso dies without reaching its desintation, jaiagaso will take birth in gurmukh family and continue its journey from the point, jaigaso left off. Sant ji said, even yogbrist (person who was in spirituality once but went astray) get a chance from vahiguroo to resume where he/she left off.

    ** Below questions are one of premis on {url not allowed}

    6. In Kalyug, can Sachkhand be attained without Khande Batte Da Amrit ?

    - Sant ji said, whoever did naam di kaamie from any bhek will attain sackhand. There are many ways to meet Vahiguroo, whosoever did naam kaamie after receiving spiritual discourses from saints will get to sachkhand. However, there is only condition, sant/mahapursh should be pooran gyanvan/bhramgyani. He/she could be from any matt, jatt/patt.

    7. Did the devi/devtae (Krishan Bhagwan etc) attain Sachkhand, if so how, because in Bachitar Natak Guru Ji states they all got lost in maya and that why Guru Ji had to come?

    - Sant ji said, krishan maharaj is also avtar of vahiguroo, he is always in sachkhand. Wherever he steps, that place becomes sachkhand.

    8. Are the bhatts/bhagats who have their writings in Guru granth Sahib Ji, actually the Devi/Devtae reborn and attained SachKhand through Guru Ji?

    - Sant ji said, guru maharaj took gurbani from bhagats who were mukht(liberated). They were mukht before sri guru nanak dev ji came in physical form. Vahiguroo is only one, vahiguroo is the one takes avtar from ages to ages. Some people call him narsingh, raam, krishan, sri guru nanak dev ji etc there all one. To see any distination or have any partiality is work of agyani pursh(ignorant ones) not aim or work of gyanvan bhramgyanis.

    **Below question to sant ji asked by one of premis on sikhawarneess.com

    9. When vaikhiya of shabad surat dhun chela was done, you advised that surat in this shabad context came from sorotar akhar(word) when we recite japji sahib there is tuk- Manaie Surat hovaie mann buddh. In that tuk, guru maharaj is talkin about surati or soratar?

    - Sant ji said, whatever we hear thats surat gyan, in which medium you are hearing, eg- ears thats sarotar. When we hear, whatever we heard goes inside that becomes birthi. If you listen to bad lyrics, bad songs, materialstic stuff, birthi will also becomes materialstic, when we hear katha of vahiguroo, birthi will also become shud, will be attracted towards vahiguroo bhajan/bandagi.

    from www.{url not allowed} :: Index
     

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