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General Are we loosing our identity?

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by KChehal, Apr 6, 2007.

  1. KChehal

    KChehal
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    Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

    Every other day we get news about sikhs converting to other religion either by trick or otherwise. We hear about the muslims trying to covert sikhs by giving a monetary reward. We hear ex sikhs praising other religion which transformed their life by performing miracle on them and their immediate family. Our youngsters not being able to communiate in punjabi but speak english only. Our youngsters even both sikhs when meet one another communicate in English when others emphasise the speaking and practising of their religion strictly. Sikhs cutting their hair, not going to the gurdwara. Only go if there is a wedding or family function etc. the other day I came across a Hindu website which criticise the sikhs and one of them said these words " There will be day when their women will either marry us or be converted by the muslims. They will only be remembered as people who once existed". This is really frightening. Are we heading towards this disaster? Are we going to be people who once existed like the INCA or Mayan?



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  3. bawaj

    bawaj
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    You raise valid points and I think this matter needs to be addressed. however, I am a Sikh youth and I have kept my hair but I do not go to the gurudwara. The main reason is that there is a serious disconnect between the care takers of the gurudwara, who are mostly from an older generation and the younger generation. the care takers of the gurudwara continue to create pressures that I am not comfortable with. I will give you an example, i attended a sikhi class at the gurudwara once and the first things they said to the class was that if you are not amrit chakh then you are not a true sikh. When I raised the issue that most of the students in the class were young children... such pressures on them (of doing path every morning at 6 am and being amrit chakh) is not good because after all they are kids and they dont understand the first thing about religion, the teacher told me to leave the class. So you see when kids feel such aggressive pressure at that young age they are bound to disconnect from the religion.
    I feel that in the attempt to save sikhism we are in fact pushing younger generation away from the religion as a consequence of the pressure.
    Sikhism is not an easy religion to practice, especially keeping full hair in the 21st century so we must approach this matter with extreme care and patience.

    Please let me know what you think
     
  4. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    dear chehal ji

    it is not sikhism that is facing these problems. all religions are facing these problems.
    go to hindu sites and you will see that hindu's crying that younger generation is not practising hinduism and dalits are converting to christianity.

    as far as cutting hair is concerned it is a fact that younger generation of any religion is not interested in keeping external symbols.take a look at islam mohammed clearly recommended that all muslims should keep beards but 99% of muslim men just shave it.

    also i beleive that sikh media exagerate these issue too much that's why feel that sikh's are converting to other religions.here is the survey which i posted some time back according to it sikhs are the most religious community of india,more religious
    than muslims

    http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-media-watch/14914-sikhs-most-religious-community-of-india.html
     
  5. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    dear bawaj

    excellent post .what you said is absolutely true if there is threat to sikhism
    then it is not from rss,muslims,christians.it is mainly from the orthodox attituide of religious sikhs.they are pushing younger generation away from sikhism and when they convert to other religions or go to other cults like radhasoami,nirankari's then these people start wondering what is happening to sikhism.
     
  6. Harjas Kaur Khalsa

    Harjas Kaur Khalsa
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    Thats so strange to hear these viewpoints, and all this talk about Sikhi dying because the kids and young people I know about are in chardi kala.

    YouTube - Kurbani

    YouTube - Kaurs United Video 2006

    YouTube - Priceless - Being a Sikh by Sat Bir Singh (Age 24)

    YouTube - three sikh heros tribute

    How to Tie a Sikh Style Turban - Dhamala /Dumalla #1 - Google Video

    YouTube - Learn How To Tye a Goll (Round) Sikh Turban

    Keertan Bhai Harpreet Singh Jee Fremont CA Ransbaee 03-18-06 - Google Video

    Keertan Bhai Prabhjot Singh JeeToronto Ransbaee July 2005 - Google Video

    YouTube - Amazing and beautiful Keertan & Simran by a Child

    PROUD TO BE SIKH!
     
    #5 Harjas Kaur Khalsa, Apr 7, 2007
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2007
  7. Lionchild

    Lionchild
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    Sadly... what identity? the punjabi or sikhi? i have seen alot of stuff going on in the sikh community that i do not like, and more and more, i am happy that i am distancing myself from all of this.

    That is why as of 5 days ago, i have officially given up the sikhi way of life, and gone with a more progressive community, which is the bahai faith.

    In the 14 months of sikhi, i thought what i found was for me, but on closer look, the message that was being spread was designed not for the world, but for only one cultural community.

    I have already declared my faith in the bahai, and have made many friends. At least i dont have to learn a new language, and dont have to change my name.

    It was time for me to move on...

    :rolleyes:
     
  8. dalsingh

    dalsingh
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    Sad to see you go Lion Child.
     
  9. drkhalsa

    drkhalsa
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    Cheer up man!

    what ever timeless God has chosen to happen in your life is best for the moment and the moments to come

    So dont be in SAD mood .
    BEst of luck yet again on your spirtual journey


    It will be excellent idea although you are distancing from sikhism you can keep in touch with the forum and keep us informed about your new faith
    we may learn from expereiences

    Best of Luck and best wishes !


    Jatinder Singh
     
  10. cia

    cia
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    Lionchild, I will miss your thoughts; when it is time to go it is best to leave. I wish you well and send a bubble of kindness as you find your true home.

    cia
     
  11. gurc

    gurc
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    Dear Bawaj ji,

    I understand your feeling, when I was young English is my first language. Whenever I ask my mom, her answer is that it is done that way. She said when she is young she follow whatever is taught without any questions.
    Now with the internet and more books in English, I belive you can find your answers and path to Sikhi. I don't about Canada , but in Singapore there programs in English for the children. They are also taught Sikh history , although bad point on this is that they have a negative image of Islam. This I overhead in conversation between two punjabi children in the library.:hmm:
    Perhaps you can ask you Gurdwara to organize some of program in English
     
  12. Harjas Kaur Khalsa

    Harjas Kaur Khalsa
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    Two of those links I posted of Proud Sikhs were American (non-Punjabi) converts. It might interest you to know that I too am an American convert (read: not native Punjabi.) When I took amrit, I became a daughter of Guru Gobind Singh Ji. As a Singhni, I belong to Guru, not to anyone else in the world. So what the world does or does not do cannot define my spiritual relationship with my Guru.

    There are some religions in the world which have a cultural context and are primarily intertwined with those cultures. This is certainly true of Greek Orthodox as well as Judaism, and some Catholic Christian congregations are very close knit (Irish, Polish, Italian). Although the Bahai faith is open to all, as is Sikhi, it also has a strong cultural connection to Iran, and I believe some of the daily prayers are in Arabic. None of these things are wrong. But if you want to live the life as a Greek Orthodox convert and never learn Greek, or become an orthodox Jewish convert and never study Hebrew, naturally it isn't going to work out. There needs to be a certain receptivity in the acceptance of a faith like that.

    Sikhi isn't on a mission to persuade converts. It has a valid and beautiful truth for those to whom this truth speaks. People who water down Sikhi to suit themselves lose the essence of what Sikhi is. I wanted to show there are happy Sikhs in this world, and look at the ridiculous response!

    Orthodoxy isn't for everyone. It takes a big commitment. So many threads are crying about the commitments. They hate the idea of not cutting hair, not eating meat, changing your name, actually having a schedule where you keep amrit vela and say paat (in Punjabi), where you keep uncut kes, and become amritdhari and wear punj kakkars. This religious path was never meant to be secular.

    If you converted to orthodox Judaism, you would not cut your beard, you would follow extremely detailed and complex religious laws with dedication, and change your diet and change your name, pray in Hebrew, and dress a style peculiar to your congregation (black coats, hats, fur hats, etc). Yet, I don't hear these kinds of complaints about orthodox Judaism. If you don't want this kind of disciplined life, why even call yourself Sikh? After thousands of years of insane persecutions, Jews are still alive and thriving. And the people who were unhappy with orthodox Judaism left it to find their own path. Orthodox judaism did not go running after them. It will not change it's heritage to make them stay. Judaism survived BECAUSE it held uncompromising to it's identity.

    While Sikhi can be secular, in my honest opinion, secular Sikhi is dead. There's no life in it. All those kids I see at more secular Gurudwaras really are cutting their hair, smoking, never pray, don't know what amrit vela is, can't speak Punjabi, and have no religious interest. This is why I resist secular ideology. Secularism is the death of Sikhi. The vibrant and thriving communities are strictly orthodox disciplined Sikhs, and they are the HAPPIEST people I know. Only a Gursikh can be chardi kala.

    If you take amrit, you have chosen Guru as your path to salvation. And if you say to Guru, "I don't need your name, I already have one," There is no surrender or acceptance of the Guru. How can you give your head, your ego, and keep it at the same time? When you take amrit, you have to be a disciple of a True Guru, you have to follow with all your heart. He is remaking you. Amrit is like rebirth. You are Guruji's child. You become a Sikh/disciple when you take amrit and accept the discipline of the Guru. I can do whatever I want as a person. But I can't do whatever I want as a Sikh/disciple. If I want to be a Gursikh/(disciple of my True Guru), I have to follow the rehat Maryada, and the instructions of the Panj Piaras because I accepted to live this life of discipline. You don't go into Sikh religion and pick and chose what you want if you expect spiritual connectedness to the Guru of Sikh religion.

    Definitely, you should follow a path that fits and feels right to you. Of course not everyone will accept you. There are all kinds of people will all kinds of insecurities. You should worry more about being acceptable to the Guru. Lionchild is a cool name. But Guru has given the name Kaur/Singh to His Sikhs. For one thing, you're not supposed to stand out as someone with a cool name. You are part of a sangat, you're supposed to have a name that demonstrates full equality with everyone else.

    You should be learning to say paat in Punjabi because thats the language of our Guru's, not because Punjabis are superior. You should be learning Gurumukhi, because then you can read directly without translation, and because the sounds themselves are a vibration to attune your thoughts to Guru. And since most of the sangat in Gurudwara speaks Punjabi, and you want to be a part of this tradition, you should try and learn to speak with the sangat. It is arrogant to think for example, an orthodox Jewish community has to speak in French to accomodate a French convert. Any orthodox community will accept you, if they first see that you accept them.

    You never converted. What is Sikhi? Is it a set of rules and cultural expectations? What about the Guru? IF Sikhi is not about the Guru, then there is no Sikhi. If you have a relationship with the Guru, then naturally you want to do His will and conform yourself to it. Guru is the spiritual Guide who wants to kill your 5 demons, kam, krodh, lobh, moh, ahaankar. If you follow a true Guru, you will never get the ego out alive. It has nothing to do with your will or what you want, or what is easiest or even comfortable (btw have you ever tried sitting for 8 hours kirtan starting with nitenam at 4 am? Right now my backside is complaining and my legs are rubber. But oh how I wish you had been there. There was so much piare, so much energy, so much authentic transcendant joy in the sangat, so many wise and holy Gursikhs I was amazed.) The point is, spiritual discipline is about bhairaag, longing for Waheguru so much you actually do what you promised at amrit sanchaar. Bhakti, to go beyond yourself, and even go beyond this body-cage. That's what all these opportunities are giving us. You say you are giving up 14 months of Sikhi. What is that? Sikhi without a love affair with Guruji is nothing anyway. It's like a dance without the Divine Beloved.

    Just like all Americans speak English because the English colonized this country (eliminating hundreds of native languages and usurping Spanish and French) so Sikhi has a cultural context...it just doesn't happen to be American. It has a language...it just doesn't happen to be English. If anyone wants to seriously study Judaism, this is impossible without learning Hebrew. People study years to learn engineering, math, computers, but a Sikh is not willing to learn Gurmukhi? The words of the Guru are in this language and script. What kind of disciple is not willing to try to read without translation? Translation = errors and interpretations of the translator, like a mind between you and the truth of those words. You see Sikhi is all about the Guru. All the sacrifices, inconveniences, tests, challenges, surrendering, that is for the Guru and no one else. A Sikh is not in this world to make anyone else happy. Punjabi Sikhs have been given a priceless gift. If some Punjabis reject it and lose Gursikhi, Guruji will call to Himself others willing to take their place. Sikhism can never die.


    Lionchild, Sikhi is not for the world. It's not like a jaguar or a mercedes or any worldly thing. It's not about popularity or winning people's approval. It's a path to spiritual liberation, a freedom from the world for those who want to be free. No one is worthy of Guru. But if you ever find a Guru that you believe in, give Him the sincerity of your dedication, your love, your loyalty and your commitment even in the face of persecutions. A True Guru will deserve at least that.


    YouTube - Children of Tommorow - Guru Gobind Singh.wmv <--Please watch!

    [​IMG]
    Michael (Akal) Singh~African American Sikh. Black belt in a couple martial arts,
    formidible in gatka as well as shastar vidya. I took amrit with him. Notice, no one is
    looking at the shaven (mona) Punjabi guy. They are all looking with admiration at the
    Guru's Singh. This picture is radiating PRIDE TO BE A SIKH!


    Who can give Guru anything, when He has sacrificed everything for us?
    "I cannot even once be a sacrifice to you."
    [​IMG]
    "If you want to play this game of love,
    then come to me with your head in your hands."


    YouTube - Kurbani <---Shaheedi, the game of love.
    Put your life in perspective. This is the love Sikhs have for their Guru.
    With Guruji's kirpa, may we all become True Sikhs of True Guru.

    Are we losing our identity? Not on your life!
     
  13. drkhalsa

    drkhalsa
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    Marvelous! excellent !

    Really enjoyed reading the post


    Thanks for the post


    Jatinder Singh
     
  14. simpy

    simpy
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    (simpy previously Surinder Kaur Cheema)
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    DHAN DHAN SIKHI

    nr pRwxI pRIiq mwieAw Dnu Kwty ]
    gurisK pRIiq guru imlY glwty ]
    jn nwnk pRIiq swD pg cwty ]
     
  15. Archived_member7

    Archived_member7
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    Satsriakaal ji saadh sangat

    Star darcy...i feel it is the saddest day to hear that u couldnt find that warmth in Sikhi...which u might have always wanted..i have chatted with u ...and i feel...as if my white brother is moving away ...

    I wish u all the best ..that atleast u could decide ....u could havea a choice...however brother ..pls give us feedback...what was missing in our warmth?
    what were the difficulties u faced...

    we all here would love to know ...may Waheguru bestow his grace on u ..and give the strength..and ..brother if eevr u feel to be back...do not hesitate...do not let yor steps falter....do not feel..what would anyone say....we shall welcome u with our open arms ...

    WAHEGURU LOVES YOU
     
  16. Harjas Kaur Khalsa

    Harjas Kaur Khalsa
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    Guru is always accepting whoever bows their head to Him. Besides all the faults and problems in Sikhi are really with people, who represent themselves, not Sikhi. But if a person has an issue with Sikh teaching, I would request that despite their issues, in public forum please show respect to the holy teachings.

    I believe he has a blog where he discusses his criticisms of Sikhs, of Jathabandis in more detail. It's linked to his signature on every post. Jathas like AKJ and Damdami Taksal sacrificed so much, endured tortures, humiliations and shaheed for the entire Khalsa Panth only to be criticized so easily by such a person who renounces Guru.
    Don't publically criticize the Panth man.
     

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