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Akhand Paath and Sitting in Darbar Sahib

Discussion in 'Questions and Answers' started by Ishna, Nov 13, 2011.

  1. Ishna

    Ishna
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    Gurfateh

    Basic questions, your answers are appreciated:

    On Akhand Paath (continuous reading of SGGS) Sikh Rehat Maryada states: "[SIZE=-1]However, it should never be allowed to happen that the reader carries on the reading all by himself/herself and no member of the congregation or the family is listening in to the reading."

    [/SIZE]
    The Gurdwara I visit has a sound system which relays the reading of SGGS to other parts of the Gurdwara, like kitchen and langar hall.

    Does that mean it is OK to have no one in Darbar Sahib while the Akhand Paath is being read, or should there always be at least one person in darbar sahib purposefully listening?

    If someone finds themselves to be the last person in darbar sahib, are they obliged to stay until someone else comes to listen?

    Thanks
    Ishna
     
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  3. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
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    Ishna ji,

    Guru Fateh.

    Let me make a confession. I have never fancied Akhand Paaths, especially when they were done at our house or anyone at my family's. It gave me more the sense of parroting and mechanical ritual than anything else. We do it because it is done in the Gurdwaras 101 non- stop Akhand Paaths etc etc. No where in the SGGS, it is mandated to have Akhand Paath.

    I always felt uncomfortable although I played my part by volunteering because I love to read the paath aloud. So my volunteering has been for my own selfish reasons because I enjoy it and get into the groove and after about 10 minutes it is an experience that can not be put into words. But I love doing Sehaj Paath because of that at my own pace and again for the selfish enjoyment.

    About 3 years ago during my daily walks at 3:30am, a thought came to my mind because my brother was going to have the Akhand Paath at his house.

    First, we never hire any Paathi to do it, we all pitch in from the family. I asked all my neices,nephews and my kids who were attending the Akhand Paath to put their lap tops to a better use. We bought about 15 breakfast tables, set up the lap tops on each of them in the room where Akhand Paath was taking place and as every home has wi-fi now, all who were sitting were accompanying the paath over their lap tops. There is a presence of minimum 3 to 5 people during this when we have Akhand Paaths now.

    Many have found their own way to enjoy this. The Shabad they happen to like, they delve deeper into it and try to understand it through the translations.

    I tried to suggest the same thing at our Gurdwara but was vetoed.

    So, now the Akhand Paaths at our homes in the US,Canada, UK and India take place like this and I personally do not feel bad about this ritual as I used to but despite all this, I still prefer my Sehaj Paaths.

    Regards

    Tejwant Singh
     
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  4. Kanwaljit Singh

    Kanwaljit Singh India
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    I think there should be atleast one person present. And sangat should throng to hall when the Guru speaks, shouldn't they? Isn't that such a rare thing? Well it isn't maybe that's why we don't respect it the way we should? And I believe staying back while someone else is there to listen to Guru, is indeed very good manners!
     
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  5. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Looks like we SIKHS have lost os much of our MOOJOH..that we have to use words like.."AT LEAST..one.....or..Last person should be OBLIGED to stay until a "replacement" crrives ( hwo may HATE the idea of having his head in the noose like that ?? Ever womndered about it ?? Have we SUNK so LOW...that we have to be "at least 1"..Obliged..etc etc to seek the Presence of our GURU ??? wheres the LOVE..the sense of JOY etc..all these Babas with their 101 larees of akhand paaths and buying and selling of ready made akhand paaths supermarket style....ready made salesman pathees who have absolutley nothing on their minds except MONEY...hence why so many have been caught sleeping on the job..or worse reading PORN on top of SGGS...chatting on their phones and basically whiling away the time until the replacement comes....AKIRTGHHANNTA..selfishness..basic animal instincts coming to the fore instead of what the GURU teaches...
     
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  6. Ishna

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    Just to clarify, the wording of my question (ie, use of 'obliged to stay') was because I was being direct with my mundane question. I visited Gurdwara Sahib 11pm last night and found myself in the exact situation. When I arrived there was the paathi and a lady listening. I sat down to my first visit to an Akhand Paath on my own late at night and after 30 minutes the lady got up and left. And hence my pondering the question. A man came in shortly after, and sat down, and I wondered if there were teams of listeners like there are teams of paathis. Sure it's probably not ideal like Gyani ji has said, but ITS HAPPENING and no one wants to breach protocol / not use good manners.

    It is a curious ritual but I must say I very much enjoyed being in beautiful Darbar Sahib with the lights on low and the paathi reading steadily, and I closed my eyes and relaxed and listened as best I could and came out from Darbar Sahib outstandingly relaxed. Probably psychosomatic but hey, I'll read whatever I want into my own spirituality.

    Maybe the novelty will wear off when I've been to a few more.
     
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  7. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    Ishna Bhenji,

    I understand your predicament completely, I have not been to that many Akand Paths, but I have to confess to not being too impressed by the way in which they have been conducted, to the point that the time was split into shifts with each person doing a 'duty', I was quite young at the time, but do recall telling jokes upstairs, only to be confronted by an angry Aunty who exclaimed that 'how would I like to get up at 2am and read the SGGS', it made it all sound like a huge inconvenience, rather than a pleasure, but this is the ritual that I hate in sikhism , the duty of path, the duty of Sewa, the duty of Simran, magic words and incantations taht bring good luck, for a house, for a new car, maybe we will see granthis selling their time on ebay to the highest bidder '3 day path', lets start the bidding at say £250 + a mobile phone,

    Guru Nanak ji fought long and hard to get away from ritual and for us to use our brains, common sense, logic, the SGGS is not a deity, it is does not have feelings, it is not lonely, the information contained in it though is life changing, beautiful, enchanting, like reading Plato, Hesse, Aristotle, Darwin, Buddha, Freud, but with a few more wow moments,

    My own opinion is that you should do what you feel is right for you, sit, enjoy, dwell, meditate, and then when it is time to go, go, anything else is ritualistic and imho less in line with what Guruji preached.

    I would prefer to breach protocol than embrace ritual
     
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  8. Ishna

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    Harry Bhaji

    It would be hubris for the noob to march into their second ever Akhand Paath and disregard protocol. imho.

    You can also read about Gurdwaras where they have multiple Akhand Paaths going on at the same time, where people do paath of japji Sahib while the main Akhand Paath is going on. Very strange, very ritualistic. Perhaps there is a happy medium somewhere in there.

    And it is a shame that some Gyanis can read so much paath and still be so consumed by greed and ignorance. What does that say about the power of Gurbani then?
     
  9. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    ishna ji.. its written:

    And it is a shame that some Gyanis can read so much paath and still be so consumed by greed and ignorance. What does that say about the power of Gurbani then?

    the Babas and Mahapurashs wearing huge cholas (to cover their huge bellies better) and gol pugghs and multiple Malas (which Guru Nanak ji condemned as dikhawa )....love to relate tall tales such as.....POWER OF GURBANI.....a "waddeh baba ji" gave a young man a dirty sieve....and told him to fetch water form the river...although puzzled that how could a sieve be used to fetch water ( alternatively a Coal basket is also used - same effect) but he dutifully follows the Babas instructions....only to come to the foregone conclusion...Not a drop of water can be fetched via a sieve or coal basket !!..... and heres the TRICK "LESSON".....according to the baba Ji.."LOOK at the SIEVE.....( or coal basket)...isnt IT SHINING squeaky CLEAN !!..........well well..that what Gurbani can do to your Dirty Mann..even IF you just do the reading RITUALLY and for MONEY !!

    But the problem is any ordinary sieve/coal basket WILL DEFINITELY becoem squeaky CLEAN after a few dips in the RIVER.....BUT it doesnt seem to be happening the same way with GRANTHIS and PATHIS..etc....?? So whats the PROBLEM ?? why do we have so many DIRTY MINDED Granthis, sewadaars who spent LIFE TIMES listening to Gurbani..etc etc... why do we have Granthis raping 5 year olds..?? why do we have RAPIST BABAS who have tons of Gurbani under their belts (tied to keep their huge bellies in check )

    The ANSWER is....while the SIEVE/COAL BASKET is being actually and physically WASHED ( as it should be..hence the result is predictory )..... "reading for MONEY/ulterior motive" is NOT washing the Mann just as simply WAVING the black coal basket OVER the river will NEVER make it clean no matter if done for a thousand years !!
    So these Babas and Mahapurashs are actually CHEATING you....The Young man should have been advised to take the Coal basket to the River Bank and Wave it about....then ritual reading of Gurbani could be compared equitably....washing the basket and comparing it to ritual reading of gurbani is like apples and oranges...then the Young man could see that waving the basket is the same as ritualized reading of Gurbani..USELESS.

    WE SIKHS LOVE to hear these Baba stories..BUT IGNORE the FACTS that Baba Guru Nanak set before us....MOOT pleetee kapparr hoeyeh..deh SABOON leayeh oh dhoiyeh....Bharieah matt papan ke saang..uh dhopeh navehn ke Raang.... DIRTY CLOTHES are washed with Soap and water....Dirty Manns are cleaned with Naam Raang...ACTION is needed...careful DOING ACTION..not parrotting....of Gurbani...
     
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    #8 Gyani Jarnail Singh, Nov 14, 2011
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2011
  10. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    Ishna Bhenji,

    imho, it is this protocol that is dragging sikhism back to hinduism, I would listen to my heart, it will never let you down, and knows much more than those that consider themselves knowledgable
     
  11. Ishna

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    Aside from all the reasons why Sikhs shouldn't have akhand paaths (yet they do, and like the DG poems, they will continue to do so as not to upset anybody even thought they know it's a load of crap), is there an answer to the question:
    [SIZE=-1]
    [/SIZE]
    Perhaps the answer was lost amid the replies.
     
  12. bscheema

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    Akhand path was done by sikhs in jungle because that time they were in fights ., they can't stay longer at one place .its like doing path in one sitting. now a days it become a ritual .


    a must read book Gurmat Nirnay Kosh - Dr. Gursharan Jeet Singh
     
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  13. Ishna

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    Thanks but it still doesn't answer the question.
     
  14. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    lol........my students asked me if its OK they stay away from my Gurbani classes since they can watch Harmandar Sahib Live on PTC satelite tv..they say we "heard" the Gurbani already...can we just go back to sleep instead of coming over...? can someone answer them ?? can ALL Sikhs now stay HOME because Gurbani is being relayed right into their BEDROOMS via satellite TV even as they sleep under warm blankets ?? LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLL some "questions" can NEVER be answered....
     
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  15. Ishna

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    I'm asking a question on plain and simple protocol. Not philosophy, not deep and meaningfuls, just a plain question with reference to the SRM.

    Whatever, it probably doesn't have an answer, lets just make it up as we go along.
     
  16. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    There is no such thing as protocol for the sangat.....Sikhism is NOT a "forced" DO THIS or DO THAT.....as far as attending sangat. matha tekking whatever amount or nothing..no payment for langgar degh etc etc...all voluntary. SRM thus has nothing to say how much to matha tek, how many rotis to eat, how many seconds/minutes/hours to listen to paaath, attend ardass etc or anything like that...all this is entirely up to each sikh or visitor...a person can SKIP anything and everything..or attend each ....many sikhs today head straight for langgar, eat and leave...no one cares...and shouldnt care...as its personal.
    We cant make up any SRM as we go along..its not up to US...
     
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  17. Ishna

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    Um, yes, Sikhism does have DO THIS or DO THAT rules, and they're INSIDE THE SRM.

    You can't say "it's personal, no one should care" followed by "we can't just make up the SRM as we go along" - the statements are basically oxymoronic.

    I can't believe it's so hard to get a straight answer to what I thought should be a simple question.

    I'll ask at the gurdwara where I'll actually get an answer.

    good bye
     
  18. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    SRM is in basic English. and even more basic Punjabi.

    Any dos and donts apply to SANGAT as a whole..not individuals - such as Sangatee kirtan, paath, hukmnamah, ardass, kirpan bhet etc is a DO only by Amrtidharees - none else. If its only an individual present..he/she can take hukmnamah, do ardass, do kirpan bhet, do kirtan - no restrictions as its Personal and NOT sangtee.

    SRM is already complete. No additions esp the kind suggested.."as we go along..." are acceptable as its NOT a free for all.
     
  19. Taranjeet singh

    Taranjeet singh India
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    While we have Akhand Paath at our homes, it is generally the duty of one of the person of family member to be present in the hall/room where the Ajhand Path is being carried on. This duty is shared by the members on hourly basis.
    That family member is free to move out of the room to make arrangements for the reader/visitors if need so arises. There is no prescription about the compulsory presence of a person. However, out of respect it is being followed.There is nothing like Protocol.

    If one reads the Blue line above carefully it would also mean that the Paathi/reader should not mur-mur the path But should read it aloud so that those present in the hall can listen to Bani easily.
     
  20. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    When I agree to a Raol (AP reading period) I always insist on reading aloud, in clear voice, each word pronounced and in proper sequence so it comes out as poetry and not otherwise. I never look at the snagat or the clock and never get tired of conversing with the Guru...after about 600 Akhand Paaths in my life I have yet to feel bored or felt the same gurbani being read,,its always a brand new experience as if i just came across that line or shabad.....BUT unlike my Dad and my Mum..I still CANNOT listen to a single line and continue from there - my dad could listen to one Line and ask whether i want to go backwards from THAT LINE or GO Forwards...it felt like they had the SGGS OPEN infornt of them...that was a wonderful gift indeed ( as for me i have to use GOOGLE...and its way much much slower and sometimes inaccurate in finding the exact Line/page/Raag/Author and the History/basis of that Shabad and how it connects to other similar shabads across the SGGS). MERA SATGUR NIT NAVAAN..na aveh na Jayeh....
     
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  21. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    Taranjeetji

    See how your post changes when you exchange the word 'duty' for 'love', in my view, if they are there out of duty, they might as well not be there,

    humbly submitted
     
    #20 Harry Haller, Nov 21, 2011
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2011

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