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General Advise Please - Dealing with Hurdles

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by Navdeep88, Jan 12, 2011.

  1. Navdeep88

    Navdeep88 Canada
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    Dear Members, How have you dealt with hurdles, when you had complete faith that something would happen but it did not? How did you make sense of it and carry on?
     
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  3. Ambarsaria

    Ambarsaria Canada
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    Re: Advise please

    Navdeep88 ji one has to look at the situation.

    At work few years back, I saw a weird sticker on the back of a car. I had known the woman and knew she was very beautiful but was heart broken from some relationship issues.

    The sticker read,
    "I have been Happy, ever since I gave up hope."

    It took me a mighty long time to figure it out. One has to do their best rather than create hope and let the outcome follow. I am reading your "faith" word in more liberal interpretation of hope, wish, sense of certainty.

    So out of all this one has to say to themselves,

    • Did I do all I could?
    • Is it the past?
    If you answer yes to the above two then you have to do the following,


    • Do I want to live in the future or past?
    • What are my options to go forward?
    If you decide to live into the future then select an option from hereon (get advice, help, dialog with who you feel comfortable with).

    As happens so often, there will come a day when you will not even think about such an issue in the future.

    My object is to not give just advice but hopefully share something I have learnt. I do realize sometimes it is easier said than done but one has to persevere.

    Sat Sri Akal.peacesign
     
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  4. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Beautiful answer Ambarsariah Ji.
    You see we have to realsie that the ghaata is within us...as The Creator is all complete..so faith in Him...is ok untilwe grab hold of the fact that any shortcomings. any shortfalls are on OUR part not His.

    For example. We KNOW for a FACT that DAY follows NIGHT....no matter what...the NIGHT will come when the Sun sets...and the next morning nothing cna stop the Sun from Rising.
    Now IF for any reason we "cultivate" some faith that this NIGHT will last forever...the more we see the SUN rising..light coming in..the more our FAITH will suffer...why isnt He "listening" to my prayer..my Faith ?? the more we become sad..the higher the sun will rise...and then the NIGHT will inevitably come again...meaning the "hurdle" is TEMPORARY...in this case its just a matter of 12 hours...and IF someone has "Faith" for 12 hours his wish for night and darkness will come true...and he will be happy..but someone who had "faith" the Light will continue past 6pm...it will be disappointment !!

    Man JEETEH..JAAG JEET..when our Mann is at REST..its PEACE..thats when we have won the WAR...otherwise we win and lose some battles all the time....The Aim is to WIN THE WAR...and that is DENDAH DEH ....LAINDEH THHAK PAHEYEH....this "thhakk" is NOT the usual meaning of " TIRED" or "'weary" of receiving...its real meaning as I understand is that the MANN takes a BREATHER..it stops prancing about...comes to a STANDSTILL like an athlete who bends over and rests after a long marathon run...
    The MANN has to come to a Complete STANDSTILL...thats the AIM of our Life on this Earth..... ( BTW do you know of anyone who is "thhakk giyah or tired of receiving" ?? one who has a Dollar..wants TEN..who has 10 wants 1000, who has 10000 wants a Lakh..a Lkhpatee wants to be KROR patee..a BILLIONAIRE........IT is as impossible to find a thak giyah person as it to find a tiny pin head in a TRILLION TON Bale of Hay !! Thats why I donot accept the traditionally given meaning of this tuk form japji Sahib )peacesign
     
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  5. findingmyway

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    Navdeep ji,

    I have several strategies which may or may not be useful to you. It's never easy!

    > Try and remember it's all Waheguru's hukam. I like to think of Guru Arjan Dev ji reciting tere bhana meetha lage.
    > Tell yourself it's for the best. It could have been worse. For example I had an accident severly injuring my foot. I couldn't walk for 2 months and couldn't play sport for more than 1 year. It still causes me some pain but it could have been worse. It could have been both feet or it could have been when I was alone rather than with friends or I could have died (or worse been paralysed). Maybe what's happened is saving you from something worse.
    > Listen to kirtan to quiet my mind and do paath.
    > Rely on friends and family. It really helps to share quite often.
    > Watch a comedy. When you have a lighter mood it's easier to start focussing on the good side and move on.

    Take care of yourself.
     
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  6. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    On my just concluded viist to Darbar sahib, in the early morning at 2.30 i was confronted by a young man i had never seen before...he wnated me to help him..pray for him...from what i gathered after a long tlak with him..he is very intelligent plus 2 studnet doing pre-medical and scoring haigh grades..when suddenly he began to get weaker and weaker..until he cant walk unaided...doctors who took xrays of his neck skull spine etc told him ..the spinal chord is getting THINNER..almost drying out and when it reaches a stage of shivering hands extremities..his time is up...someone told him..go to darbar sahib Sarovar..bathe..do ardass..you will be cured...and hes doen that for 6 months but disease still proceeding normally...
    I aske dhim Why Me ? I am not evne local..i just visit here once ayear and soemtimes in 2 or 3 years..he said..i just got a vision that YOU will help me...WHY is mY GURU sggs NOT listening to me ? My parents took me to severla Babas, Guurs incl the Dera Beas Guru, they spent so much..travelled to almost any baba Holy man they ever heard of no matter how far..or how expensive..they went..BUT MY FAITH always in SGGS...BUT then WHY my GURU wont listen to my ardass..i dont wnat to die early..i wnat to be a doctor and help others..WILL YOU PROMISE TO HELP ME..do ardass..paath...in the end i had to promise all this and he was so happy..he reminded me..YOU PROMISED UNCLE..I will be waiting RIGHT HERE next NOVEMBER 22nd at 2.30 AM.
    When I came home..I couldnt sleep for a fortnight..wondering about that young man..what have i promised..what will happen now..what to do...finally I performed an ardass and started a sehaj Paath and Daily Ardass ( more FOR MY OWN MANN than anything else ) What will happen to that young mans FAITH ?? is uppermost...and what will happen to MY FAITH ?? so many questions..so few answers...thats LIFE..
     
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  7. Ambarsaria

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    Gyani Jarnail Singh ji wonderful post. I can see both of you in Darbar Sahib without having seen either of you.

    I will also pray for him.

    On a side note, I have been personally studying Homeopathy as a hobby since early 80s. I have helped friends and family. For me friends and family is anyone who does believe in such help and needs it and lets me know. If I could be any help in studying his situation and suggesting any remedies feel free to PM me. I will be more than happy to do so. There is no charge just to see someone helped and happier.

    His desire to live is fundamental to any possible recovery and it is good that you described it so.

    Sat Sri Akal.
     
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  8. Archived_member14

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    Navdeep88 ji,



    We all have a great tendency to desire. Desire to the raw objects of experience through the five senses, and most particularly to any pleasant feeling aroused when there is recognition of what it might be and also to all the associated thoughts subsequently followed. All this happens within a very short moment but it does not stop there, because following this is the tendency to dwell in terms of past and future, where aversion (which again we have a great tendency for) comes in to then direct the thoughts to yet other objects. At some point in all this, expectations are created and being that along with it is the prospect of disappointment, there is hope and there is fear.

    When contacted with objects that are unpleasant, we all hurt ourselves even further due to the aversion which arises in reaction. It is like being shot by an arrow and because of lack of understanding, another arrow follows and another one, on and on. That we are faced with unpleasant situations is unavoidable given the expectations we keep creating. And as Gyani Jarnail Singh ji has said, we often also create unrealistic expectations. We can’t help having desire, creating expectations and building up hope and we can’t help having aversion, feeling disappointed and having fear. It is good however to realize that all this takes place, indeed understanding these when they arise in a day is the only countermeasure. Anything else could only be an illusion.

    Our thoughts are selective, and one reason any “situation” is seen as a problem is because attachment and aversion has determined it. Likewise what comes across as a solution is perceived as such because wanting to be happy, we see only what we like to see. The fact is that thought cannot solve the problem which to begin with, was created by thought.

    At the root of it all is ‘self-love’ and therefore as long as this is not acknowledged, problems will continue being created and any apparent solution will in fact only be delusory in nature. In other words, we perceive of a problem but end up clinging to any suggestion of a solution, thereby creating another set of problems. This happens all the time and goes on forever; hence why the fuel driving the round of existence is never exhausted. A grim picture, but one to be acknowledged if there is to be any real freedom. But of course, if indeed it is with any level of understanding that this is perceived, rather than cause for sorrow, confidence is aroused and is an occasion for cheer. But understanding *must* be there, else even this will be latched upon like everything else. And here lies the need for other good states to be developed alongside, namely, patience, truthfulness, equanimity, morality, kindness, giving, renunciation, perseverance and so on.
     
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  9. Ambarsaria

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    Confused ji a great post gives lot to ponder.

    However I do have one basic query and appreciate brief comments which of the three in the following is consistent with your thoughts as this not only culturally defines America but also at times makes the rest of the world envious of America,

    "Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" is one of the most famous phrases in the United States Declaration of Independence and considered by some as part of one of the most well crafted, influential sentences in the history of the English language. These three aspects are listed among the "unalienable rights" or sovereign rights of man."
    Specially the "pursuit of happiness" other than to renunciate and dress up and practice as monks (my potential example of how I see renunciation) in reddish/safforn clothes. I am not saying that there is anything wrong with people who so chose. I was a little child when I saw the Dalai Lama in Amritsar where he was honored by local punjabi folks in a very large gathering. I have general respect for the serene, calming knowledge and disposition radiating from such persona.

    Namaste

    Sat Sri Akal.
     
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  10. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Ambarsariah Ji,
    Gurfateh Ji and Thanks for the offer of help Ji.

    He lives in a smallVillage ..along the Kapurthala/Sultanpur Lodhi Main Road near the Railway Station known as Pajian. I am sending a relative to find out his actual address and maybe phone number...and then I will PM you.

    Since this is a body rog...we have to do as Gurbani says..Vaida rog tun pehlan rog pehchhaan....and the Creator created the Body and He also created the Medicines to cure the body...the ARDASS is an instrument of THANKS..SHUKRANA to HIM to show His Mercy. If this young man clears this "hurdle" in his life I am very sure he will be a staunch Sikh all his life.

    Warm Regards Ji.
     
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  11. Ambarsaria

    Ambarsaria Canada
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    No problem Gyani Jarnail Singh ji.

    If you can also have your relative ask about access to a computer as I can then communicate much more productively if need be.

    I have created a form that needs to be completed in detail so that a remedy can be honed to.

    As the saying goes,
    "A body that can make itself ill also has the power to make itself well"

    All Homeopathy tries to do is just a little trigger of help if it takes hold.

    Sat Sri Akal.
     
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  12. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Ambarasia ji

    It is my understanding that the "statement life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness," or as you put it "sovereign rights," expresses the philosophical stance of "negative rights." The US Constitution is grounded in the idea that the government shall "not" do this that or the other thing. The premise therefore is that these "rights" belong to individuals or groups of individuals as a birthright, and they are not given by the government to the people. Rather the people own these rights and the government's job is to figure out how to legislate a civil society without abridging these rights. It does not always work. Hence the federal courts are called upon to decide whether rights have been abridged and if they have what remedy must be applied.

    The pursuit of happiness then translates for monks in saffron robes as the right to pursue happiness as a renunciate in a saffron robe without any interference by local, state, public governments, and in some cases even private entities, like corporations.

    US has one of the few forms of government based on a theory of "negative rights." Most constitutions grant rights to the populace, and therefore are positioned to take rights away. That is why in France dastar/turban can be summarily banned in government run art museums. In the US, dastar and kirpan have been variously banned at the state level - e.g., teachers in 2 states may not wear religious symbols. But if an advocacy group goes to a federal court to protest, it will make the claim that a basic right has been taken away by the state. Advocates will not claim that the individual deserves the right to dastar and kirpan. They will say that he had that right all along. The court must hear the case, based on an argument that the government has taken a right away. This form of due process occurs without any procedural requirement that preliminary findings taking place. And the courts/juries are duty bound to base a decision on whether there is a clear and present danger to other citizens, sufficient to ban an item, like a kirpan or a dastar.

    Here is a pretty good site that explains the theory of negative rights http://www83.homepage.villanova.edu/richard.jacobs/MPA 8300/theories/rawls.html
     
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  13. Archived_member14

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    Ambarsaria ji,



    Not only am I unable to analyze such ideas, but I also feel generally disinclined to think in terms of social situations and about politics. Spnadmin ji’s message has therefore saved me from the headache of trying to. ;-) I would however like to say a little about the topic of renunciation.

    Renunciation is related to seeing the danger of attachment to sense pleasure, but higher still, the unsatisfactory nature of conditioned existence, or what we call life. The former level of understanding existed even before the time of the Buddha. Indeed it is why so many people become monks after they encountered him. These people were sensitive to what is described as ‘dustiness of the life of a householder’ and would have inclined to renunciation whether or not they heard the Buddha teach. This is seeing danger in “attachment”.

    After hearing the Buddha there came into being an additional motivating factor, although not particularly inciting of becoming a renunciate. The Buddha was enlightened to the Four Noble Truths and taught it to others, such that the people who understood this became gradually disenchanted with all conditioned phenomena. Being that no experience lasts longer than a fraction of a flash and therefore unsatisfactory and beyond control, wisdom has no cause to seek anything. What the Buddha taught therefore incited an inclination away from existence, from being. This understanding is however not limited to monks, but laypersons can also develop it. Unlike that which is related to sense pleasure, this understanding is about seeing danger in “ignorance”.

    Since it is ultimately ignorance which leads one to move around in darkness, it is a fact that even for those who see harm in sense contacts, they’d still however have craving for ‘being’. Indeed the kind of wisdom which sees through sense pleasure does nothing to reduce the tendency; such that given the right conditions when a given renunciate becomes forgetful, he’d very quickly become attached again. On the other hand, a lay person who has some understanding about conditioned phenomena, he is developing the kind / level of renunciation which is far more relevant. Although he could do well to also see harm in sense pleasure, it is not a requirement as far as enlightenment is concerned.

    In this regard, I don’t consider wearing the yellow robe to be particularly worth praising. I’d need to be able to observe whether a given monk’s morality is such that he is able to keep the two hundred odd rules without any feeling of agitation for an extended period of time. I’d have to closely watch his actions which should be more or less impeccable for at least a month. And since he has ordained under the Buddha’s dispensation, I’d need to enter a dialogue with him in order to determine how correct his views are. My estimate is that such a monk is almost non-existent today. One reason also being that were he wise, he’d not ordain in a temple in which other monks have little moral restraint and understanding, and such a temple I’m quite sure, does not exist.

    You’ll understand therefore if I said to you that the Dalai Lama’s outward appearance mean absolutely nothing to me. Indeed having read what I read about him and one of his books, I consider him more “worldly” than even myself. And if I’m not fit to become a renunciate, he most certainly isn’t either. But of course he comes from the Mahayana tradition which I consider a perversion of the Buddha’s teachings anyway. He and all those who follow him may label themselves Buddhist if they want to, but they shouldn’t claim to be following the Buddha’s teachings as far as I’m concerned.
     
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  14. a.mother

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    So out of all this one has to say to themselves,
    Did I do all I could?
    Is it the past?
    If you answer yes to the above two then you have to do the following,

    Do I want to live in the future or past?
    What are my options to go forward?
    If you decide to live into the future then select an option from hereon (get advice, help, dialog with who you feel comfortable with).

    As happens so often, there will come a day when you will not even think about such an issue in the future.

    My object is to not give just advice but hopefully share something I have learnt. I do realize sometimes it is easier said than done but one has to persevere.

    Ambarsaria ji, I am agree with you. Your first and fourth questions are the main which I ask to myself when ever I get hit hard with any thing and trust me I always get down with first one, as you said Did I do all I could ? and I get always error from my side and then I started with my options for next step what can I do to resolve it .I personally never give up.Then I started to work on my errors and options. All above from that after trying both if I don't get the solution I realize its my karma. Life is not really easy we are learning everyday.
     
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  15. a.mother

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    findigmyway ji, as you said
    > Try and remember it's all Waheguru's hukam. I like to think of Guru Arjan Dev ji reciting tere bhana meetha lage.
    This is truth but its hard to reach tera bhana meetha lage.we need a lot of kamaai to reach that stage.

    > Tell yourself it's for the best. It could have been worse. For example I had an accident severly injuring my foot. I couldn't walk for 2 months and couldn't play sport for more than 1 year. It still causes me some pain but it could have been worse. It could have been both feet or it could have been when I was alone rather than with friends or I could have died (or worse been paralysed). Maybe what's happened is saving you from something worse.

    Thats what I do and tell other to think that way.

    > Listen to kirtan to quiet my mind and do paath.

    THATS WHAT I ALWAYS TRY TO DO.(but still mind runs away.listening kirtan and singing with it making my mind SHAANT.

    > Rely on friends and family. It really helps to share quite often.

    You are so lucky if you can rely on family and good friends but Be careful there are many double faces are todays world. Since I have join the SPN I am surrounded with very nice people like you.

    > Watch a comedy. When you have a lighter mood it's easier to start focussing on the good side and move on.

    Yes sometimes that helps alot.
     
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  16. a.mother

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    Gyani ji, a heart touching story, may be god has a plan for him .Thank you for sharing with us, you know we can ardas for him tooooooooo, and I will. I have a request to you please update us with his condition. I will wait for you. It doesn't metter if you send me private message or post on SPN. I believe that with ardas if its from heart any thing can happen, bina saahan to vi jinda rah sakde han.
     
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  17. Adi Nanaki

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    There are no real hurdles in life. The block is in our perception. Perceive God's Will working through all beings, all activities, natural disasters, treachery, neglect and betrayals. Everything is perfectly orchestrated to awaken us to the total Divine and exquisite peace on the other side.
     
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  18. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    THANK YOU ALL.
    I am really touched.
    OF course I firmly hold to the beleif that SANGATS' ARDASS never goes unanswered. Lets ALL do our ardass daily for this young man. I am sure Guru Ji listens to His Sevaks.
    Special thanks to Veer Ambarsariahs ji and a.mother Ji. I will convey all your sentiments and feelings to the young man and his family. Now I am finally convinced I will see him well and healthy when i viist Punjab Next...and can perform my sehaj paath and ardass warm in the feeling that i am not alone in this endeavour and Benti before Him The Sodhi Sultan Dhan Dhan Guru Ramdass Ji. Thank You all again Jios.welcomemunda
     
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  19. Navdeep88

    Navdeep88 Canada
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    Thank you everyone for the helpful replies. I have gotten a lot from them.

    I do have some other questions concerning self-discipline, what is the best approach? I almost have a tendency to beat myself over some mistake (a lost opportunity etc.), as an excuse because I dont know how to go about being who I am supposed to be fully. This self-criticism becomes detrimental and holds me further back, reminding myself that I was not strong. How do you move forward with a firm conviction about the future, but still accept that you may slip? How do you discipline yourself without beating yourself up?

    My second question is concerning the mind. There is an emphasis in Sikhi about living both spiritually and taking care of your responsibilities. How do you quiet the mind internally, but still work, struggle etc, to make a living and take care of your responsibilities externally? What is the best formula?
     
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  20. Mai Harinder Kaur

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    Dear Navdeep ji,

    It's all attitude. You can see a hurdle as something barring your way or you can see it as something to overcome. It's not always easy though.

    When things went completely wrong in my life, I had a sort of temper tantrum that lasted for 20 years.

    I had the perfect life. An adoring physician husband. A saintly and very strong son. A pretty little farm outside Montreal. A huge, loving family in the city. On April 9, 1984, we celebrated our 14th wedding anniversary. We had dreams of a long, happy life ahead of us. Then we went on an extended trip to India.

    I will not retell the whole story here. My son and husband were killed in the Delhi Pogrom/Genocide, I was badly injured and our dream life lay in ashes - literally - around us. After my body had recovered in Montreal and my surviving family pulled themselves together, I ran away to the United States.

    Some of you know all that. Now I get to the time I don't talk about. In April 1986, I decided I had had enough. I went to the North Rim of the Grand Canyon. I was of a divided mind what to do. In the end, I didn't jump off. What I did was much worse. I took my kirpan and chopped off what had been my kesh. I made a neat package of hair and kangha and kara and kirpan all tied up in my kechera bound with my gatra. I through them over the rim with a curse to Guru Gobind Singh.

    Then I spent 20 years in hell. I smoked. I drank alcohol. I took drugs. I wandered in and out of lives and jobs and, somewhere in the midst of this, made a bizarre marriage, landed in a mental hospital in Alaska and ended up with a loyal but alcoholic husband in Seattle. There I cleaned up and - to shorten the story - realised how much I missed the Sangat and Guru ji. I came back.

    Both the Sangat and Guru ji welcomed me back heartily, arms open wide. .

    Happy ending, eh? Not exactly. Shortly thereafter, exactly 20 years to the day after my explosion in the Grand Canyon, I had a fatal stroke. Twice fatal actually. Obviously, I was revived, the left side of my body paralysed and useless, my Punjabi completely gone and me left with the choice of lying in bed useless and pathetic or to fight back like a returned (aspiring) Khalsa. With Guru's kirpa, I have fought back. My left side still is weak and has little feeling, but I can walk and talk and type pretty well one-handed.

    As you can see, I did not react well to some of the hurdles in my life. I made just about every mistake - no, not mistake, I did it all on purpose - that anyone could make. Somewhere along the line I learned something, though. Guru ji is very kind and loving and always willing to take us back. I am handling this most recent hurdle pretty well.

    Life is choices. We cannot always choose the circumstances we find ourselves in, but we can choose our attitude. You can choose a 20 year temper tantrum or you can adopt an attitude of chardi kala. It's all up to you.
     
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  21. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    Mai ji..you made me cry on my birthday...BUT I am so very happy deep inside..because I once again received confirmation that the Sangat and Guru Ji is forever forgiving and kind...THANK YOU for SHARING that horrible moment at the Grand Canyon...i never knew anyone who has survived THAT...BUT you obvioulsy DID and Handsomely. I am proud to know you and be your friend.
     
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