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Advice please. Thanks (Reg Homosexuality)

Discussion in 'Sikh Youth' started by Sand_Kaur, Apr 28, 2006.

  1. Sand_Kaur

    Sand_Kaur
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    I have already read several threads on the topic that I would like some advice on. I would like to say first of all that I'm not looking for debate or criticism or judgements, thanks.

    This is difficult for me to talk about, even tho it is the internet!

    Basically, I have feelings towards other women. This is of great concern to me for obvious reasons. These feelings have been there since childhood... when I was younger I just thought that perhaps there was some mistake and I was supposed to be a boy but as I wasn't I didn't let it bother me. Obviously, puberty is a great hormonal period during which these feelings surfaced again, but I managed to stifle them through being busy and to be honest even if i was straight and had any sexual feelings, there was no way I would have done anything about them because you don't. But now it all seems to be of more significance. I am in my mid twenties and the conversations of marriage are becoming more frequent in my family. I find that I have no interest in men, being married to one or anything of that nature. I have mentioned to my father that I am not interested in men and therefore have no selection criteria to go with if he introduces me to anyone. I definately haven't told any family that I'm lesbian and never will. But I really don't know how to procede with my situation at all.

    Is it best to just go with it all and get married to a guy that I find least disagreeable? is that fair to him if he finds me attractive and I can't? This type of 'cultural duty' definately makes me feel that there is some joke being played on me, that I can't see any reason I would be given the sexual orientation that I have. Why would I find women attractive? How am I supposed to reconcile that with my religion and Sikh culture? What is more important, my sanity or familial duty? Never getting married, is a major DON'T but it would never be a true marriage, would it? I could never be all the things a guy would want in a wife.
    I really don't know what the best thing to do is. I am a sensitive person and am afraid that whatever path I choose, there will be sadness involved. If I choose a lifestyle based upon my sexual preference... that is cultivate a relationship with another woman, if the opportunity presents itself; but then I would be hurting my family and surely would be against many sikh principles not the least of which is disrespecting my parents. It would destry my parents and in turn I doubt I could live with myself havign done that damage. If however I followed the tradition and married, I would be living a form of lie and my mental health would inevitably deteriorate. How could I be happy whilst repressing myself.. the problem with repressing one part of you is that as tiem goes on , it gets difficult to keep it to just that part and I know that my personality and mental well being will suffer. I wouldn't be able to predict how much solace I could gain from knowing I was doing what is right and proper by Sikhism and my family.

    Does anyone have any good advice? Is there even an answer? Am I a joke? Perhaps I did something bad in a past incarnation, but how am I to solve my situation in this?

    Any advice would be much appreciated, Thank you.
     
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  3. drdpsn

    drdpsn Canada
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    Re: Advice please. Thanks

    Dear Sand,
    I think marriage is a pious institution/duty for the prosperity of human society. Our great Guru also recognized this fact that-s-why they attached a great importance to this institution. Marriage is not sex only (Sex is only a small part of it, but without it it is not possible to procreate in a natural way. May be certain scientist tell us of other ways of propcreation for humans but that is yet a rare event.). Marriage is a commitment of two individuals (Male and Female) (with or without the approval of their parents) towards each other to stand by each other in all thick and thin. The gift of beautiful/ healthy children (with the grace of Almighty) makes the life of the couple more complete and happier. This event makes their commitment to each other more stronger.
    Sikh Gurus have advocated this line of thought that-s-why they have placed Family Life (Grihsath Jeewan) above all ways of human living.
    Regards
    DPS
     
  4. Archived_member7

    Archived_member7
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    Re: Advice please. Thanks

    Satsriakaalji Saadh Sangat & Sand...

    I know how it feels about this situation...as you have mentioned the sexual preferences....well...however onething what i see is you are just 20...
    dont you think you r quite young to think abt marriage ? in India its common...however ..let me tell you there are times when one gets confusion over sexual preferences...in their late teens...I have read about elton john ..if i am not wrong ..he was also like....he use to feel he was gay...which was actually not the case...

    A liking could arise..but the best is to see a qualified..psychologist..counsellor... and talk about it....something should be done...and SAND dont get me wrong...see ..in india ..a person hesitates..since he feels people may call him a lunatic...or a mad person just because he or she has gone for treatment to one of these options...but feel free to approach one ...counselling helps....

    May Waheguru bless you and help you to get over any difficulties..you are going through....

    GURU RAAKHA
     
  5. Sand_Kaur

    Sand_Kaur
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    Re: Advice please. Thanks

    Hi, I do thank you for replying to my post. I'm not asking for help to 'become straight', that's not the issue; I'm not confused. I suppose when I think about the ideal person I would want to spend my life with in a committed, emotionally fulfilling and happy relationship... it's a woman. I don't beleive I need treatment for it.
    And even, when it's time to get married (which actually will come up in a couple of years after my education is complete), I really can't figure out what it is that I'm supposed to do. The topic of marriage is on everybody's mind at the moment because my cousin is getting married this autumn. She's younger than I am so naturally there is an expectation about me.

    But suppose the scenario that I just say yes to the first man my parents introduce me to just on the basis that they would like him to be their son-in-law. Is that a good criteria? I figure I would want to be able to have an intelligent conversation with him, but other than that, does it matter what I think?

    And also there is the matter of sex! I know people say that isn't what marriage is about.. but it certainly is a factor. I don't want to have sex with a man! Am I supposed to just put up with that?! I find that abhorent! And what about him? Will he mind that his wife doesn't want to come near him.. um.. i think he would!

    Oh, and just a side note about elton john... he is actually "married" to a man.

    And about children.. In this kaljug... I'm not certain I would want to bring children in to a world that is so full of hate, violence and is only going to get worse! I'd rather look after those children who are orphaned or whose parents decided they didn't want them.. those children need love and attention.

    Anyhow, I need to get back to studying....
     
  6. drkhalsa

    drkhalsa
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    Re: Advice please. Thanks

    Dear Sand Kaur

    I can understand the difficult situation that has arisen in your life at this piont, and i really fell sorry for that

    I refraining for writing any advise ,but then I jsut thought may be it will help you a bit .

    Now about your sexual prefrences as you have mentioned are absolutely alright if we in light of modern medical science , by that I mean that all the major psychiatric bodies over the world have removed it from list of various psychological and psychiatric diseases eg DSMV-IV.
    About Sikhism : There has been debate earlier on this forum about it and as I have understood there is no connection between your sexual prefrences and your connection with the AKAL as far as Sikh path is concerned . As for anybody who is on the path of sikhism with a wish/aim/goal to realise /meet AKAL , he/she has leave all the attachments behind at some point so it does not matter with what you are attached

    But before this could happen in anybodies life which also include you with the grace of AKAL,,one has to spend his life in devotion while carrying out day to daylife . The main point here is that he/ she just need to spend his day to day life in devotion of god in as simple and peaceful manner as possible .

    Now your problem actually starts here , as you are born in Indian background family .It is equally difficult for your parents to face such problem . the social rules and pressure ought to cloud their thinking about such an issue. I hope you understand their difficulty as well .

    Now about your current situation . I actually dont know for how long you have actually decided firmly on your sexual differences .I medical Science ( Psychiatry) this called 'coming out' phase in life of gay/lesbain. but still there have been instances when such people have reverted too the opposite sexual preferences after some time .What is the case with you ,actually you know better . I am not here advising yo anything what to do, just saying the things to make everything clear.

    Now my advise to you in such situation .
    I thinkthe best person to talk is one your Sister if you have any or then your mother about whats going on in your life and disscus the possibel way out of it
    The other thing is be in contact with people who are facing similar problems and get to know who they are dealing it
    There are few people even on this forum who could help you i will give you their name and you can try contacting them. As I know then they are really nice people and will surely help you

    http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/members/caramelchocolate.html

    http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/members/jogindar-singh-kaur.html

    Also you can have a look at this topic in your free time about the disscusion of Homosexuality and Sikhism

    http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/controversial-debates/586-sikhism-and-homosextuality-2.html

    Now just to some up again that their no reason to feel guilty if you have decided on your sexual preferences firmly. Their is nothing on the spirtual path of Sikhism thatwill stop youmeeting the Lord AKAL ( if you ever wish so:) !!). Infact if you are spirtual minded then I would say that this current problem your life could prove to be life changing a at this moment of your life you have taken care to sort out your relation with the GOD ( AKAL).As everything is the will of AKAL so take this oppurtunity in a positive sense to improve your life for good.



    May Akal Bless you



    Jatinder Singh
     
  7. Anoop

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    Re: Advice please. Thanks

    sand kaur ji... have you tried meditating. Your inner self holds love, god has given us meditation so that we can think what we really want. Maybe your feelings are different from the inside. God is with you, so listen to god. Your ok..dont worry about anything, this life is about god and do what you can. But always listen to inside of you to reassure what you really are.
     
  8. Jazz

    Jazz
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    Re: Advice please. Thanks

    Dear Penji

    It is what it is .... we are what we are ....

    When (and if you are 100% certain that this is not a fad, a phase, of passing .. if you will) a sikh attains faith in Guru ji ... one of the first things they will realise is that we all have choices, ... some are easy .. and some are not. When one considers that we have no choice, its because the remaining option may well seem impossible to us.

    However, We are not here to lead the same path, to live the same life, to be the same to the extent that sometimes culture/society in general lead us to think. All paths lead to Guru ji, it is unfortunate that our culture is such that we feel ashamed to be as we are. Where culture should help us undertand our chosen sikhi (way of life), it is used to instruct us to behave the way others want to, sometimes we see this clearly contradicting Guru ji.

    Penji, Find peace where there seems none, find the love of WaheGuru in everything and everyone.

    Whatever you choose, it will not be an easy path, but if you can find someone to talk to, an unbiased relative/friend, an good Baba Ji from a Gurudwara free from Bias/election, share your difficulties ... remembering always that the way you feel is not wrong, it just isnt the norm. Whatever you do, do not enter into a lifelong lie, entering the union of matrimony is sacred and all about trust, a friend at college once told me, it is better to be true friends than false lovers.


    May you find peace with all... I know you will.
     
  9. mortal

    mortal
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    Re: Advice please. Thanks

    Dear Sand_kaur
    firstly and foremostly i must ask you, how would you elaborate your nature?
    Is it friendly?
    Compassionate?
    Rude?
    Introvert?
    please reply and then may be we can solve it together, ur problem.


    since childhood... when I was younger I just thought that perhaps there was some mistake and I was supposed to be a boy but as I wasn't I didn't let it bother me. Obviously, puberty is a great hormonal period during which these feelings surfaced again, but I managed to stifle them through being busy and to be honest even if i was straight and had any sexual feelings, there was no way I would have done anything about them because you don't. But now it all seems to be of more significance. I am in my mid twenties and the conversations of marriage are becoming more frequent in my family. I find that I have no interest in men, being married to one or anything of that nature. I have mentioned to my father that I am not interested in men and therefore have no selection criteria to go with if he introduces me to anyone. I definately haven't told any family that I'm lesbian and never will. But I really don't know how to procede with my situation at all.

    Is it best to just go with it all and get married to a guy that I find least disagreeable? is that fair to him if he finds me attractive and I can't? This type of 'cultural duty' definately makes me feel that there is some joke being played on me, that I can't see any reason I would be given the sexual orientation that I have. Why would I find women attractive? How am I supposed to reconcile that with my religion and Sikh culture? What is more important, my sanity or familial duty? Never getting married, is a major DON'T but it would never be a true marriage, would it? I could never be all the things a guy would want in a wife.
    I really don't know what the best thing to do is. I am a sensitive person and am afraid that whatever path I choose, there will be sadness involved. If I choose a lifestyle based upon my sexual preference... that is cultivate a relationship with another woman, if the opportunity presents itself; but then I would be hurting my family and surely would be against many sikh principles not the least of which is disrespecting my parents. It would destry my parents and in turn I doubt I could live with myself havign done that damage. If however I followed the tradition and married, I would be living a form of lie and my mental health would inevitably deteriorate. How could I be happy whilst repressing myself.. the problem with repressing one part of you is that as tiem goes on , it gets difficult to keep it to just that part and I know that my personality and mental well being will suffer. I wouldn't be able to predict how much solace I could gain from knowing I was doing what is right and proper by Sikhism and my family.

    Does anyone have any good advice? Is there even an answer? Am I a joke? Perhaps I did something bad in a past incarnation, but how am I to solve my situation in this?

    Any advice would be much appreciated, Thank you.[/quote]
     
  10. drkhalsa

    drkhalsa
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    Re: Advice please. Thanks

    Dear mortal welcome to the forum



    I like to give my view about the thing discussed here , may be it can be of any use


    The first thing I would like to mentin that manypeople amight look upon this thing as bizarre or a joke or what ever but infact for todays world it has become reality


    People with such sexual preferences like your have existed from the time immorial but we don’t find mention of it it atleas in good way is due to the fact that such kind of thing occur in extreme minority and in past many might no have dared reveal it due to majority pressure
    But now in the age of global coomuniaction and scienvce it is very easy to find to find people with similar mind set and also preferences and also there more expression or admittance of the facts now .

    At first look it seems that such siyuation is even worse for the female but infact it is otherwise as Female have been proved to Mentally and Psychologically more energetic and strong then Male ( it has been agreed in medical science and also in Spirtuality as DASAM GURU Ji in his Bani describe Female as Form of SHAKTI in pure sense )


    So to start with there should be no Guilt or feeling of being on wrong side inside you as in your case as you have mentioned your self role / contribution leading to your present state of being is almost nil so why blame ?
    And I don’t think that Sexual orientation is the only thing that shape your life for good . As understood in Sikh Philosophy the ultimate goal of any mortal human being is to raise his/ her counciousness to level where nothing else remains beside god and appreciate the ultimate truth that GOD only exist and I see no Brrier in your life stoping you fronm doing so . So there are many reason to cheer up !!:)


    As I believe and understand to best of my knowledge any aspect of human nature and charater is not in YES and NO format Instaed there is spectrum of things

    One cant be just angry man or just calm man for example and has to be spectrum of the thing

    About the human orientation as man and female

    Although most of us take this decision in early years of life that whether we are gonna be man or woman and it hardly is remembered by any body as voluntary decision it is all dependant on gene expression and circumstances around every body . In general it is difficult to label any body whether he / she to either totallty manly or totally feminine in nature . There will always be spectrum of things which will collectively gives shape to the behavior and character of individual although there is strong trend to be identify with one of the either male / female .
    In day to day to life everybody might have observed man with feminine qbent and laso female who seems less feminine or othr wise manly .
    In Spirtuality there is a great example of sufi saints who happen to mainly Male but there spiritual path involved the development of Love for GOD and in the process they consider themselves the Soul Bride and ALLAH ,AKAL PURAKH as the ultimate manly groom

    So on spiritual path these are just labels whether male or female .
    And if your greater concern is that if you go ahead with the choice of marrying a man ( which seems most easy in your social setup ) then I don’t think that there is nay thing to feel guilty of not loving HIM as you can always relate with the femnine aspect of him

    Although I know that this wont to be your foremost choice or choice that your heart agrees but still there are many ways to relate to material world and it can manipulated .


    I think I have said to much but hope it might help you in some way



    MayAKAL Bless us all



    Jatinder Singh
     
  11. anders

    anders
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    Re: Advice please. Thanks

    Sorry if I sound like joking too much, but that's no problem. Most men have feelings towards women, so why shouldn't you as well?
    Even a notoriously intolerant religion as Christianity (I know, I used to be there) has no condemnation anywhere of female-female love. Rather, the whole OT book of Ruth can be seen as positively depicting such a relationship. So, tolerant Sikhism should have no problems if your supposed inclination persists.
    What would be wrong is if you were to deny yourself and follow what you perceive is the view of others. You are you, and by definition you can't live the lifes and views of other people.
     

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