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A Question to Gurujee or Bani Manipulation?

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by Randip Singh, Feb 27, 2012.

  1. Randip Singh

    Randip Singh
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    Hi folks I was recently e-mail an interesting question and answer document based on the Guru Granth Sahib ji. Iread it and thought it is an excellent example for me to illustrate how Bani can be manipulated:

    Now here is the same article with Bani added and questions slightly altered:

    any views?
     
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    #1 Randip Singh, Feb 27, 2012
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2012
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  3. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    Guruji Can I eat my Vegetables without Salt?
    Answer:
    ਕਬੀਰ ਖੂਬੁ ਖਾਨਾ ਖੀਚਰੀ ਜਾ ਮਹਿ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਲੋਨੁ ॥
    ਹੇਰਾ ਰੋਟੀ ਕਾਰਨੇ ਗਲਾ ਕਟਾਵੈ ਕਉਨੁ ॥੧੮੮॥
    "O Kabeer! The dinner of beans and rice is excellent, if it is (just) flavoured with salt. I am not ready to have my own throat cut to have meat with my bread? ||188||"
    (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji - Ang 1374)
    Guruji, my if my family are attacked by thugs, should I defend them?

    ਦੂਖੁ ਨ ਦੇਈ ਕਿਸੈ ਜੀਅ ਪਤਿ ਸਿਉ ਘਰਿ ਜਾਵਉ ॥
    "Do not cause any being to suffer, and you shall go to your true home with honor."
    (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji - Ang 322)

    But surely to defend my families life is righteous
    ਜੀਅ ਬਧਹੁ ਸੁ ਧਰਮੁ ਕਰਿ ਥਾਪਹੁ ਅਧਰਮੁ ਕਹਹੁ ਕਤ ਭਾਈ ॥
    ਆਪਸ ਕਉ ਮੁਨਿਵਰ ਕਰਿ ਥਾਪਹੁ ਕਾ ਕਉ ਕਹਹੁ ਕਸਾਈ ॥2॥
    "You kill living beings, and call it a righteous action. Tell me, brother, what would you call an unrighteous action? If you religious people are doing "religious" killing for meat, then what is A-dharam (atheism)? If you are a religious person then whom will we call a butcher? ||2||"
    (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji - Ang 1103)

    Is it true that one can drink wine, as long as it you do not eat fish with it?
    ਕਬੀਰ ਭਾਂਗ ਮਾਛੁਲੀ ਸੁਰਾ ਪਾਨਿ ਜੋ ਜੋ ਪ੍ਰਾਨੀ ਖਾਂਹਿ ॥
    ਤੀਰਥ ਬਰਤ ਨੇਮ ਕੀਏ ਤੇ ਸਭੈ ਰਸਾਤਲਿ ਜਾਂਹਿ ॥੨੩੩॥
    "O Kabeer! Those mortals who consume marijuana, fish and wine - no matter what pilgrimages, fasts and rituals they follow, they will all go to hell. ||233||"
    (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji - Ang 1377)

    What about black pudding?
    ਜੇ ਰਤੁ ਲਗੈ ਕਪੜੈ ਜਾਮਾ ਹੋਇ ਪਲੀਤੁ ॥
    ਜੋ ਰਤੁ ਪੀਵਹਿ ਮਾਣਸਾ ਤਿਨ ਕਿਉ ਨਿਰਮਲੁ ਚੀਤੁ ॥
    ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਉ ਖੁਦਾਇ ਕਾ ਦਿਲਿ ਹਛੈ ਮੁਖਿ ਲੇਹੁ ॥
    ਅਵਰਿ ਦਿਵਾਜੇ ਦੁਨੀ ਕੇ ਝੂਠੇ ਅਮਲ ਕਰੇਹੁ ॥੧॥
    "If one's clothes are stained with blood, the garment becomes polluted. Those who drink the blood of others - how can those people's consciousness be pure?"
    (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji - Ang 140)

    My father is blind, is it true he will never find enlightenment?, and my mother is a professional bamboo blower, what about her?
    ਕਬੀਰ ਸਾਚਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਕਿਆ ਕਰੈ ਜਉ ਸਿਖਾ ਮਹਿ ਚੂਕ ॥
    ਅੰਧੇ ਏਕ ਨ ਲਾਗਈ ਜਿਉ ਬਾਂਸੁ ਬਜਾਈਐ ਫੂਕ ॥੧੫੮॥
    "O Kabeer! What can the True Guru do, when His Sikhs are at fault? The blind do not take in any of His Teachings; it is as useless as blowing into bamboo. ||158||"
    (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji – Ang 1372)


    Just how far can you go, I wonder, to tailor the answers? If I was feeling a bit more mischievous, and had a bit more time, I think I could justify anything in this manner, Great post Veerji
     
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  4. BaljinderS

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    Harry veer ji, you are a funny guy :redturban:
    Sikhism is not about quantity but quality so there bound to be allot of fools who fall for this kind of misguidance.
     
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  5. Randip Singh

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    Harry your version is brilliant. :)
     
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  6. BaljinderS

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    lol.. funny

    ---------------
    My father is blind, is it true he will never find enlightenment?, and my mother is a professional bamboo blower, what about her?
    ਕਬੀਰ ਸਾਚਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਕਿਆ ਕਰੈ ਜਉ ਸਿਖਾ ਮਹਿ ਚੂਕ ॥
    ਅੰਧੇ ਏਕ ਨ ਲਾਗਈ ਜਿਉ ਬਾਂਸੁ ਬਜਾਈਐ ਫੂਕ ॥੧੫੮॥
    "O Kabeer! What can the True Guru do, when His Sikhs are at fault? The blind do not take in any of His Teachings; it is as useless as blowing into bamboo. ||158||"
    (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji – Ang 1372)
     
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  7. Randip Singh

    Randip Singh
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    But seriously.

    This would make Sikh's to be believers in Ahimsa and concept we reject totally.
     
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    #6 Randip Singh, Feb 28, 2012
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2012
  8. Ambarsaria

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  9. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Harry Ji..Brilliant par excellence...couldnt stop LOL......had to be forcefully "stopped" as too much laughter is bad for my heart..ha ha ha will laugh again tomorrow after a second read thru...great job.
     
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  10. Randip Singh

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    I was thinking of some more today....I think this may start something.
     
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  11. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    me too! this could be a long running thread !
     
  12. Scarlet Pimpernel

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    Veer Ji with Gods True Word as spoken by Saints one does not have to follow it to the letter, but rather follow the spirit of it,the spirit of it is Naam or Truth.
     
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  13. Ambarsaria

    Ambarsaria Canada
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    Randip Singh ji is it possible to keep tab of Kachi Bani identifed in Examples so that it would be easily available to help people check? Media and Internet with URL probably easy and written stuff or non-online stuff being harder.

    Sat Sri Akal.
     
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  14. Randip Singh

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    Kachi Bani = tough nut to crack. Kachi Bani eminates I think from fanaticism and lack of education and downright manipulation.

    To tackle manipulation, fanaticism and lack of education, all we can do is try and educate people on forums like this.

    Your idea is nevertheless a good one.
     
  15. Randip Singh

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    Guruji My name is David Blain. I am a magician a who performs card tricks and I am worried about a new one I am going to do won't work at my next show. Will it work?

    Hundreds of thousands of clever tricks, but not even one of them will go along with you in the end

    Page 1 Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji

    Guruji my name is Margaret Thatcher and I advocated Monetary Policies in the 80's that rely on Consumerism. Are my policies vindicated?

    Throughout the ages, consumers consume

    Page 1 Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji

     
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  16. Harry Haller

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    Guruji, Why is it that I have no respect for myself anymore, I am a normal father with two children, my wife has much respect, but everyone treats me like a fool.


    Page 32, Line 12
    ਧਨੁ ਜਨਨੀ ਜਿਨਿ ਜਾਇਆ ਧੰਨੁ ਪਿਤਾ ਪਰਧਾਨੁ ॥
    धनु जननी जिनि जाइआ धंनु पिता परधानु ॥
    Ḏẖan jannī jin jā▫i▫ā ḏẖan piṯā parḏẖān.
    Blessed is the mother who gave birth and blessed and respected is the father of one,

    Although this does seem a humour thread, I had to read about 15 pages of Bani to find one reference, so its not as pointless as it might seem
     
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    #15 Harry Haller, Mar 1, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2012
  17. prakash.s.bagga

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    We are prepared to reject this concept of SGGS as this message goes against our own established views as per earlier Sabad. A good idea of considering the meanings of the quotes as per convenience.

    Prakash.S.Bagga
     
  18. Randip Singh

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    An interesting point. Please elaborate.
     
  19. Randip Singh

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    Indeed.

    In actually trying to twist the meaning of Bani, I am having to learn the real meaning, and in the process learning something.
     
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  20. prakash.s.bagga

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    You are considering the idea of Ahmsa as rejected .Where does Guru ji telling us to be Hinsak.?
    There is concept of self defence only and this does not amount to be Hinsak rather an action within the concept of Ahimsa.
    Prakash.S.Bagga
     
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  21. Ambarsaria

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    Prakash.S.Bagga ji your logic is flawed as it does not confirm as one has to be one or the other or there are many shades of violence and non-violence. If there are many shades then binary logic is inapplicable.

    Example: Something is not "BLACK". It does not imply it is white as it could be pink, blue, red, saffron, etc.

    Sat Sri Akal.
     
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