The Despicable Ego

I declare I am a developing atheist.
I am a receding egoist.
I am a rebel at heart.

For the past 5 years of my life I have constantly analyzed myself and have realized the roots of my problems to be rooted within myself. Through my carefull, careless poring over my self, I have often struck out against the adamanitum wall of religion. I have often found great hypocrisy in other religions and with great regret (not really), I have found a great philosophical and physical problem in Sikhism (Yes, I am a sikh child, teenager to specific for all you looking into my teenage angst).
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-youth/15195-the-despicable-ego.html

To the point now: in my sporadic attendences at the local Gurudwaras and several Gurmukhi Camps, I have heard from the Bhai Sahab many lectures (too dramatic?) on Homein (Ego). I realized that Sikhism places great emphasis on the evils of Ego. I also realized that I was greatly egotisitc.

Over the years I have worked hard within to fight off the evil and vile ego (no, I am not implying sarcasm). I have become far humbler now than I was that first day at the camp when it dawned upon me that ego was my problem, that I was fighting everday a losing war against with the other me.

Anways, the problem, one I pose to you all is: Ego implies a aserting a distinction between you and me. Ego is identity. Ego is in its barest the only idea which make one, one. Lets forget all condescion and the usual.

The key facet ( if only from a physical standpoint) of Sikhism, the hair, the turban, etc. clearly identify us Sikhs from all people (at least the Majority). How is that since the Gurus preached us to reduce Ego, they later make us distinct. Not blaming them, why is that where ever I go in Sikh society, the import of our Sikh Identity (you know what I speak of) is so highly touted, romanticised, and brainwashed into us. Aren't we, by the idea of Ego, all the master egotists if we flaunt our turbans, kesh, etc. as a symbol of us. Or is this modern flaunting just our displacement against a world which has moved away from the naturalist theologies?
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=15195




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Dear Freind ( your name bit difficult!!)

welcome here
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=15195

I just raed your post I must say all your observationsare fantastic and I almost agree with most of them

Just the few things that instantly came to my mind.=.=.=

one cant fight ego although we can channel it .=
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=15195

Ego diguises to take shap=es and the very means to fight it become egoistic itself

It can only disolve when the universal force /God want it to happen till this happen it enjoy it !!or may be tame it for good

I dont agree with this explanation ( usually given by sikhs)that physical symbols are there ONLY to make us stand out for others Instead may be for ownself as a reminder of something( So Debatable.=.=.=.=)


It too late in night so I think thi it for now .=.=may be more tmr.=



Any way I just felt like recommending you a very nice book to read .

THE NEW EARTH - BY ECKHART TOLLE I think you will surely like it



Jatinder Singh

Well I really thought that this matter was important. Judging from the replies, I guess I am mistaken and a misled dolt.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=15195

Perhaps, I will look up that book that DR. K suggested.

Hey hey, don't get that demoralized.

Now, you bring up a very valid question, and an interesting one.

The sole difference here is, we are not "supposed" to flaunt based on turban, tied or untied beard, gelled beard, the bigger the pugh, the "more sikh" you are.

But, in reality, its there. So is the caste system. So is gender discrimination. So is a bunch of other issues in our society.

Can you be ego-less and still identify yourself as one? Yes, because your supposed to be "in touch with God" and not altering your body, hence where kesh comes in. It's all a mix and match.


Now, although I'm an atheist, I keep my kesh and the whole 9 yards because they interest me.
I also, with some sikh friends, joke around about how in our community, the more "hardcore" you are, the more your dhari isnt tied, the more your pugh is circular. We joke because its the exact opposite of anything any western civilization has ever marketed or produced, and we love it.

Do we suffer from ego? Oh, of course. See us on the basketball court one day, and its absolutely nuts.

The thing though is, keeping kesh, and doing all that is relatively easier than controlling ones ego to a point where they can identify themselves as one, yet be ego-less. Hence, why you see alot of keshdhari sikhs with big egos.

Your attempting to compare a step 1 to a step 9. When most people die off at step 3.

You see a couple here and there, but thats why there has only been a couple gurus here and there.

Respected JtotheAtothe

More than most people you will meet in a life-time, because you have a well-developed ego. Let's not say it is a "despicable" ego, but rather a problematic ego.

Ego, and eventually a concept of self as an individual, a separate person with an independent sense of identity, does not become apparent until late in infancy (around 8 or 10 months) when we notice that all the objects and people around us don't vanish permanently, but just disappear for a time, when they go away. Our toys, pets, parents continue to exist even when we cannot see them right there in front of our eyes. Psychologists call this "object permanence" and it is one of the earliest concepts to develop in a child, and it shows that a baby is developing a memory. Young children don't start to cry when they are separated from their mothers until they realize that they are SEPARATE, SEPARATED. This is the beginning of I-Thou in its most basic form. Separation causes anxiety.

A sense of yourself as a separate self however is essential to further mental develoment. Children learn to solve problems only when they can separate or analyze the parts of a problem and look for connections. They must also be able to see themselves as distinct from all the objective elements in a problem. They cannot understand what it means to share until they can make the distinction between what is mine and what is yours. They cannot be kind or generous until they understand that if I am sad when you hit me or take my toys, then you must also be said when I do a bad thing to you. This is the begining of Ego (I am not You or It), the beginning of intelligence, the beginning of duality. Without Ego intellectual development cannot take place.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=15195

In a similar way, we cannot get to God until the moment when we discover that we are separate and separated from God, and we feel at some level the anxiety of this separation. Our ego separates us. This is the I-Thou duality in adulthood, and this form of duality becomes a problem for people who are convinced that there is a God and wish to engage God in a personal way. Sidh Gosht visits this theme many times. Here again Ego is a pre-requisite.

A small child learns kindness by bridging the gap between you and me through empathy, seeing and feeling another's point of view. A gap cannot be closed unless there is a gap in the first place. We cannot close the distance, our separation from God, until we realize that we are separated from God. We meditate because we realize that duality is getting in the way of having a spiritual exchange with God.

I am reminded of the story of the 4 mystics who were visited by God. Three of them in turn talked about the depth of their devotion and God did not seem to hear or care. The 4th man said nothing but just opened his arms. And God came over to him and embraced him.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=15195

Respectfully

This is a good point you make. We are psychological creatures. You are obviously highly knowledgeble yet side-step the issue at hand.


hahaha, man that is so deep in the most comic way. Very interesting metaphor.

JtotheAtothe

Ego implies a aserting a distinction between you and me. Ego is identity. Ego is in its barest the only idea which make one, one.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=15195
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=15195

You are positively on target. Then the next step is to recognize whether you want to go beyond Ego. There is no predicting if and when that happens. Then you seek to end that feeling of separation. Not everyone feels this need. Those who do often find themselves meditating.

Respectfully

Quote:

Over the years I have worked hard within to fight off the evil and vile ego (no, I am not implying sarcasm). I have become far humbler now than I was that first day at the camp when it dawned upon me that ego was my problem, that I was fighting everday a losing war against with the other me.

The ego is a tool for interacting in the real world. When you push the ego too hard, it fights back as something called "a shadow." In psychology, the shadow nature is something you're not even conscious of. But recklessly trying to push unconscious your panj vikaars, the shadow grows more powerful. If you drive yourself too hard before you are ready, you create more problems. Actually, harshness towards the ego doesn't make someone loving and good...it can break their mind and heart and create cruelty. A lot of the problems you see today in world religions are because of this disconnection in the heart and mind caused by wrong approach in spiritual discipline.

Veerji, you won't become more loving, more filled with light if you're always beating yourself up as vile and unworthy. At the same time, you are correct, you want to master your panj vikaars. To become a master of something is not to become a tyrant of anything. Simply move in your life with greater understanding of human nature. That's the path to mastery.

Take every one of the 5 evils, and understand that when purified by spiritual practices, those are your 5 strengths. So the goal is really more of transformation. Anger, for example, has the power to destroy the innocent. But transformed, it has the power to give strength and determination to the oppressed to no longer tolerate victimization. Simply to eliminate anger, you will lose a fundamental part of your own will. The more anger is purified, the less you are vulnerable to instinctive reacting to provocation, the less you corrupt your spiritual practice. If you beat up your own ego, your own imperfect humanity, how in the world will you treat other people? Train the mind as you would train an unruly child.

Quote:

Ego implies a aserting a distinction between you and me. Ego is identity. Ego is in its barest the only idea which make one, one. Lets forget all condescion and the usual. The key facet ( if only from a physical standpoint) of Sikhism, the hair, the turban, etc. clearly identify us Sikhs from all people (at least the Majority). How is that since the Gurus preached us to reduce Ego, they later make us distinct. Not blaming them, why is that where ever I go in Sikh society, the import of our Sikh Identity (you know what I speak of) is so highly touted, romanticised, and brainwashed into us. Aren't we, by the idea of Ego, all the master egotists if we flaunt our turbans, kesh, etc. as a symbol of us.

1. As they say, the fruit falls from the tree when ripe. If you aren't prepared, losing ego boundaries is something very destabilizing. You will only become psychotic. About 99% of the human population isn't ready for this kind of experience. Don't force it. Thats why they say spiritual discipline is like walking the razor's edge, because it's so easy to destroy yourself.

Why would Guruji make us distinct if the goal is to merge?

Okay, back to particles again. Every particle of your being already contains within it the properties of a wave, something which is indistinct, interconnected, united with all that is. Yet, because of the dual nature, it is also a particle manifesting it's distinction. Just look at the world around you. What do you see? You see a multiplicity of forms. You see ants, and birds of every color. You see all kinds of trees, all kinds of clouds, etc. The world is a dance of individuality. Individuality isn't bad. In fact, it's precious. But, despite all these seeming distinctions, underlying the core nature of every being is the same energy, the same life force, the same spiritual light.

Spiritual practice doesn't mean you blur distinctions as though merging with absolute was some kind of rejection of what is. It just means you are able to see beyond appearances. Merging with the absolute has a very interesting equation. The Buddhists talk about parinirvana as merging into this field of being, shunyata, or emptiness. But shunyata as a concept isn't only emptiness. It's the unification of light and emptiness, so it's 2 mathematical equivalents...everythingness and nothingness. It is the multiplicity of diverse life, and at the same time creative potential. Like nirgun and sargun natures. One is manifest and the other is unmanifest. Anyway, the point, although there is a merging, implying loss of distinctions, there's also everythingness as well that you take into your heart with piare. So you become one not with dissolution but with life-force itself.

There is so much misunderstanding about the panj kakkars. they are not a ritual, they are not a symbol we cling to superstitiously, they are not a focus of ego, they are not a burden.

When we take amrit, the panj kakkars become a part of who we are, our new identity. We take on the form of Guruji's saroop. How can you be egotistical, when you are taking pride in the appearance of the Guru's own roop? Does Guru's bana belong to your ego? Is it the same as plucking your hairs, shaving your dhaari? Wearing make-up? Is it some kind of egotistical based appearance like that? Or does every Singh and Singhni take on this same roop that belongs to Guru?

People are still corrupt, egotistical, vain or whatever. But the Guru's roop is the Guru's roop, that's why we love it so much. Little children like to see the great King in themselves. And in this case, people are a lot like little children. But Guruji has made us his little children. And we have opportunity to grow up (mature spiritually) and become great like He is, because His very presence is with us. We are trying to become the Divine dignity of the King, not the egotism of the "I." So please be patient with the Singhs and Singhnis, we are only people just like you are. Everyone is at their own stage of development.

If you were to compare any other fashion with Khalsa bana, I hardly think anyone will be thought as the supreme egotist who has the same style of dress as everyone else. I think what is happening, there are so few real Gursikhi Gurudwaras. That it seems if you find someone in bana he is sticking out like trying to be holier than everyone else. But if you visit Gurudwaras with a lot of chadi kala Singhs and Singhnis, that distinction fades away. We are all brothers and sisters. The ego is submerged in the Guru's roop. Especially you put keski on the head of a Singhni, she is not really being egotistical about her appearance. It's more of a discipline to limit your appearance in this way. And when you do stand out in a crowd, definitely you are standing against all the fashions that flatter the ego.

just compare:

Wahe guru, Harjas ji! Wahe guru, wahe ji!