Matha Tekna

Hardkaur · #1 (**permalink**) 04-Jun-2006, 05:33 AM

I have a general question, when we matahtak (bow down) to guru granth sahib ji and pray for something, are we praying to God to answer our prayer or gurji????

Whenever I mathatak I always pray in my mind to Wahaguru ji to answer my prayer.
*

vijaydeep Singh · #2 (**permalink**) 04-Jun-2006, 15:25 PM

Gurfateh
Bin Boleyan Sabh Kichh Janda Kis Age Kije Ardas(without speaking knows all in front of whom should be prayer be done).
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/8879-matha-tekna.html
Jiyo Pind Sabh Tiska ,Sabh Kichh Tiske Pas(Life and Body is of that(God),everything is with that(God).
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8879

So as per higherst sate of Sikh,we do not have to ask for anything but only have to thank God.

And when we bow to anywhere including Guru Granth Sahib Ji,We have to ahve God in our Mind and saying thanks to the same.

max314 · #3 (**permalink**) 04-Jun-2006, 16:36 PM

I do it as a sign of respect and acknowledgement.

A text that contains such poetry, such compassion, such humanity, such wisdom and such ethereal and temporal beauty that it had the power to remove the Islamic fascists from the sub-continent to replace it with a secularist government is worthy of such respect.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8879
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8879

It's like shaking hands or touching the feet of an elder or something. It's not 'worship'. It is a very logical-yet-passionate love.

vipjas_27 · #4 (**permalink**) 05-Jun-2006, 17:06 PM

SAT SRI AKAL,
respected, vijaydeep and max314, i agree with you both.
and I just want to add something to this, as i am a learner like another sikh, please forgive me for my mistakes.
firstly, gurmat( thought of truth ) is for whole mankind. through Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji pious truth, omnipresence truth , and pure heart and pure living is being taught to everyone on this world.
gurmat teaches us that matha tekna, does not means that we are matha tek to god, but gurmat teaches us that through guru granth sahib ji, we should bow to the truth, and we should very humbly surrunder our own knowledge to the guru and almighty and should realise the presence of god everywhere.

isdku kir isjdw mnu kir mKsUdu ] ijh
iDir dyKw iqh iDir maujUdu ]

god is everywhere. if god is evrywhere than in which direction we should bow?
in what ever dirction we see, in what ever direction we move and whomsoever we talk to we should see god , this is what gurmat makes us realise.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8879
infact if god is present everywhere than we cant matha tek to god. according to guru granth sahib ji ,, bowing down means "self surrender"

mn kI miq iqAwghu hir jn hukmu bUiJ suKu pweIAY ry ] (209
man kee mat ti-aagahu har jan hukam boojh sukh paa-ee-ai ray.

Renounce the intellectual cleverness of your mind, O humble servants of the Lord; understanding the Hukam of His Command, peace is found.
according to the sikh philosphy bowing to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji means,,

qU smrQu vfw myrI miq QorI rwm ] (547-
too samrath vadaa mayree mat thoree raam.

You are great and all-powerful; my understanding is so inadequate, O Lord
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8879

so here it is clear that the main motive to bow to guru ji is not to ask for worldly health, wealth and we should not go to gurdwara and start our list of demands rather main motive is to surrender.

mnu Arpau Dnu rwKau AwgY mn kI miq moih sgl iqAwgI ] (204-6, gauVI, mÚ 5)
man arpa-o Dhan raakha-o aagai man kee mat mohi sagal ti-aagee.

I surrender my mind to Him; I place my wealth before Him. I totally renounce my selfish ways.
so that we can take the blessings and knowledge of guru granth sahib ji and start living life accordingly.
bhul chuk maaf, please let me know my mistakes.
regards
vipjas

simpy · #5 (**permalink**) 06-Jun-2006, 03:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vipjas_27

gurmat teaches us that matha tekna, does not means that we are matha tek to god, but gurmat teaches us that through guru granth sahib ji, we should bow to the truth, and we should very humbly surrunder our own knowledge to the guru and almighty and should realise the presence of god everywhere.

Very well said. Faith and Complete surrender is the starting point of the relationship between the Guru and a deciple.

Huck_Finn · #6 (**permalink**) 07-Jun-2006, 15:18 PM

Surrender to the will of Guru or God?

I echo views of Max.... though for me it is more of an emotional expression of respect to my beloved Guru and thanking Guru for showing me the way to God.

simpy · #7 (**permalink**) 07-Jun-2006, 16:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amarsanghera

I echo views of Max.... though for me it is more of an emotional expression of respect to my beloved Guru and thanking Guru for showing me the way to God.

Respected Amarsanghera Ji,

Can you explain what is your emotional expression of respect to your beloved Guru; Please.

Huck_Finn · #8 (**permalink**) 08-Jun-2006, 08:24 AM

Respected Sister,

Sat Sri Akal,
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8879

By respect i means the respect a disciple, a curoious student has for the teacher which shows the students the righteous ways and spiritual path to one ness with God.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8879

I am subservient to one God( ParBraham) whom i crave to join on my spiritual path.

my mind and tongue praises the one God...

All our Gurus are the Kindered souls which achieved oneness with God and have shown us the way through their teachings and Bani. Now with Bani as the living Guru Granth Sahib becomes my teacher and Guru.

I hope i was able to explain my point.

by using word Emotional - i am of the belief that our relation with God and Guru is of love. same love which a person has for its Guide and its Beloved.

simpy · #9 (**permalink**) 08-Jun-2006, 19:40 PM

Respected AmarSanghera Ji,

You Questioned:
“Surrender to the will of Guru or God?”

And your explanation of 'emotional expression of love towards Guru' is:

“the respect a disciple, a curoious student has for the teacher which shows the students the righteous ways and spiritual path to one ness with God.

I am subservient to one God( ParBraham) whom i crave to join on my spiritual path.

my mind and tongue praises the one God...

All our Gurus are the Kindered souls which achieved oneness with God and have shown us the way through their teachings and Bani. Now with Bani as the living Guru Granth Sahib becomes my teacher and Guru.

I hope i was able to explain my point.

by using word Emotional - i am of the belief that our relation with God and Guru is of love. same love which a person has for its Guide and its Beloved.”

My Answer:

Spiritual path may sound very easy to talk about, but it is very difficult to actually walk it.
On the Spiritual Path when we talk about Guru and Disciple relationship, we are talking about a very unique relationship. It is not a casual but a very pious and Spiritual connection. There are no worldly comparisons.

When we talk about Matha Tekna, it is our physical demonstrations of affection towards the Guru, (similar to bowing, kissing the hands or feet of the Guru(if living)).

Affection to Guru in Spiritual sense comes with total devotion and absolute surrender; as this is not normal student teacher relashionship. Surrender in Spiritual sense is: there is no I-ness left anymore. Ego is totally surrendered. What ever Guru is teaching, it is being accepted without any questions.

When you are walking the Spiritual Path, there is no difference remain between Guru and God. You can get all the guidance from the Divine presence within as well as you can follow a Guru. When you say that you are able to follow the Inner Guide within yourself, you must be capable of understanding what is wrong and what is right, as there is mind in-between. And how tricky this mind can be, you need not to be much of a scholar to know that. Fighting this mind is the key here. “Man Jeetay JagJeet”. How many in this world are capable of doing it, on their own?
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8879

Below is what Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Ram Das Ji says about Guru Chela relationship:

The very first line says that I would sell myself to that person who will lead me to meet my Lord.

rwgu sUhI AstpdIAw mhlw 4 Gru 2
<> siqgur pRswid ]
koeI Awix imlwvY myrw pRIqmu ipAwrw hau iqsu pih Awpu vycweI ]1]
drsnu hir dyKx kY qweI ]
ik®pw krih qw siqguru mylih hir hir nwmu iDAweI ]1] rhwau ]

jy suKu dyih q quJih ArwDI duiK BI quJY iDAweI ]2]
jy BuK dyih q ieq hI rwjw duK ivic sUK mnweI ]3]
qnu mnu kwit kwit sBu ArpI ivic AgnI Awpu jlweI ]4]
pKw PyrI pwxI Fovw jo dyvih so KweI ]5]
nwnku grIbu Fih pieAw duAwrY hir myil lYhu vifAweI ]6]
AKI kwiF DrI crxw qil sB DrqI iPir mq pweI ]7]
jy pwis bhwlih qw quJih ArwDI jy mwir kFih BI iDAweI ]8]
jy loku slwhy qw qyrI aupmw jy inMdY q Coif n jweI ]9]
jy quDu vil rhY qw koeI ikhu AwKau quDu ivsirAY mir jweI ]10]
vwir vwir jweI gur aUpir pY pYrI sMq mnweI ]11]
nwnku ivcwrw BieAw idvwnw hir qau drsn kY qweI ]12]
JKVu JwgI mIhu vrsY BI guru dyKx jweI ]13]
smuMdu swgru hovY bhu Kwrw gurisKu lµiG gur pih jweI ]14]
ijau pRwxI jl ibnu hY mrqw iqau isKu gur ibnu mir jweI ]15]
ijau DrqI soB kry jlu brsY iqau isKu gur imil ibgsweI ]16]
syvk kw hoie syvku vrqw kir kir ibnau bulweI ]17]
nwnk kI bynµqI hir pih gur imil gur suKu pweI ]18]
qU Awpy guru cylw hY Awpy gur ivcu dy quJih iDAweI ]19]
jo quDu syvih so qUhY hovih quDu syvk pYj rKweI ]20]
BMfwr Bry BgqI hir qyry ijsu BwvY iqsu dyvweI ]21]
ijsu qUM dyih soeI jnu pwey hor inhPl sB cqurweI ]22]
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=8879
ismir ismir ismir guru Apunw soieAw mnu jwgweI ]23]
ieku dwnu mMgY nwnku vycwrw hir dwsin dwsu krweI ]24]
jy guru iJVky q mITw lwgY jy bKsy q gur vifAweI ]25]
gurmuiK bolih so Qwie pwey mnmuiK ikCu Qwie n pweI ]26]
pwlw kkru vrP vrsY gurisKu gur dyKx jweI ]27]
sBu idnsu rYix dyKau guru Apunw ivic AKI gur pYr DrweI ]28]
Anyk aupwv krI gur kwrix gur BwvY so Qwie pweI ]29]
rYix idnsu gur crx ArwDI dieAw krhu myry sweI ]30]
nwnk kw jIau ipMfu gurU hY gur imil iqRpiq AGweI ]31]
nwnk kw pRBu pUir rihE hY jq kq qq gosweI ]32]1]

Surrender here is of much mature sense my dear. Here we are not talking of things made of gross material. We are talking of that mind which is made of subtle substance. We as Guru’s disciples, have to embrace Guru’s teachings without resistance. Without surrendering your I-ness, it is not possible.

Why? As you said “All our Gurus are the Kindered souls which achieved oneness with God and have shown us the way through their teachings and Bani. Now with Bani as the living Guru Granth Sahib becomes my teacher and Guru.”

A kindred Soul knows the reality that a normal mind (lost in the worldly hush bush) cannot perceive. So this mind has to leave its own intellegence and follow the Guru. Guru literally means "one who dispels darkness". To understand and follow what Guru is saying; we have to strip away the layers of ego.

If you are capable to the point that you can attain Salvation on your own, yes you can provided you are able to surrender totally to God (Living in God’s Will), because exactly the same is going to happen if you follow your Guru’s teachings; then you do not need a Guru.

If you need a Guru to walk this path you have to surrender absolutely to your Guru. There is no difference between a Guru and God.

Being subservient to God comes to you by being subservient (absolute surrender) to your Guru/God. There is no other way. If this mind itself was capable of doing all that is needed for Self Realization, it would have done it by itself; without needing a Guru. If it needs a Guru, then Guru has to be followed subserviently.