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Matha Tekna

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by Hardkaur, Jun 4, 2006.

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  1. Hardkaur

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    I have a general question, when we matahtak (bow down) to guru granth sahib ji and pray for something, are we praying to God to answer our prayer or gurji????:confused: Whenever I mathatak I always pray in my mind to Wahaguru ji to answer my prayer.
     
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  3. vijaydeep Singh

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    Re: Mathatakna

    Gurfateh
    Bin Boleyan Sabh Kichh Janda Kis Age Kije Ardas(without speaking knows all in front of whom should be prayer be done).
    Jiyo Pind Sabh Tiska ,Sabh Kichh Tiske Pas(Life and Body is of that(God),everything is with that(God).

    So as per higherst sate of Sikh,we do not have to ask for anything but only have to thank God.

    And when we bow to anywhere including Guru Granth Sahib Ji,We have to ahve God in our Mind and saying thanks to the same.
     
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  4. max314

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    Re: Mathatakna

    I do it as a sign of respect and acknowledgement.

    A text that contains such poetry, such compassion, such humanity, such wisdom and such ethereal and temporal beauty that it had the power to remove the Islamic fascists from the sub-continent to replace it with a secularist government is worthy of such respect.

    It's like shaking hands or touching the feet of an elder or something. It's not 'worship'. It is a very logical-yet-passionate love.
     
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  5. vipjas_27

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    Re: Mathatakna

    SAT SRI AKAL,
    respected, vijaydeep and max314, i agree with you both.
    and I just want to add something to this, as i am a learner like another sikh, please forgive me for my mistakes.
    firstly, gurmat( thought of truth ) is for whole mankind. through SGGS ji pious truth, omnipresence truth , and pure heart and pure living is being taught to everyone on this world.
    gurmat teaches us that matha tekna, does not means that we are matha tek to god, but gurmat teaches us that through guru granth sahib ji, we should bow to the truth, and we should very humbly surrunder our own knowledge to the guru and almighty and should realise the presence of god everywhere.

    isdku kir isjdw mnu kir mKsUdu ] ijh
    iDir dyKw iqh iDir maujUdu ]

    god is everywhere. if god is evrywhere than in which direction we should bow?
    in what ever dirction we see, in what ever direction we move and whomsoever we talk to we should see god , this is what gurmat makes us realise.
    infact if god is present everywhere than we cant matha tek to god. according to guru granth sahib ji ,, bowing down means "self surrender"


    mn kI miq iqAwghu hir jn hukmu bUiJ suKu pweIAY ry ] (209
    man kee mat ti-aagahu har jan hukam boojh sukh paa-ee-ai ray.

    Renounce the intellectual cleverness of your mind, O humble servants of the Lord; understanding the Hukam of His Command, peace is found.
    according to the sikh philosphy bowing to SGGS ji means,,

    qU smrQu vfw myrI miq QorI rwm ] (547-
    too samrath vadaa mayree mat thoree raam.

    You are great and all-powerful; my understanding is so inadequate, O Lord


    so here it is clear that the main motive to bow to guru ji is not to ask for worldly health, wealth and we should not go to gurdwara and start our list of demands rather main motive is to surrender.

    mnu Arpau Dnu rwKau AwgY mn kI miq moih sgl iqAwgI ] (204-6, gauVI, mÚ 5)
    man arpa-o Dhan raakha-o aagai man kee mat mohi sagal ti-aagee.

    I surrender my mind to Him; I place my wealth before Him. I totally renounce my selfish ways.
    so that we can take the blessings and knowledge of guru granth sahib ji and start living life accordingly.
    bhul chuk maaf, please let me know my mistakes.
    regards
    vipjas
     
  6. simpy

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    Re: Mathatakna


    Very well said. Faith and Complete surrender is the starting point of the relationship between the Guru and a deciple.
     
  7. Huck_Finn

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    Re: Mathatakna

    Surrender to the will of Guru or God?

    I echo views of Max.... though for me it is more of an emotional expression of respect to my beloved Guru and thanking Guru for showing me the way to God.
     
  8. simpy

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    Re: Mathatakna

    Respected Amarsanghera Ji,

    Can you explain what is your emotional expression of respect to your beloved Guru; Please.
     
  9. Huck_Finn

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    Re: Mathatakna

    Respected Sister,

    Sat Sri Akal,

    By respect i means the respect a disciple, a curoious student has for the teacher which shows the students the righteous ways and spiritual path to one ness with God.

    I am subservient to one God( ParBraham) whom i crave to join on my spiritual path.

    my mind and tongue praises the one God...

    All our Gurus are the Kindered souls which achieved oneness with God and have shown us the way through their teachings and Bani. Now with Bani as the living Guru Guru Granth Sahib becomes my teacher and Guru.

    I hope i was able to explain my point.

    by using word Emotional - i am of the belief that our relation with God and Guru is of love. same love which a person has for its Guide and its Beloved.
     
  10. simpy

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    Re: Mathatakna

    Respected AmarSanghera Ji,



    You Questioned:
    “Surrender to the will of Guru or God?”



    And your explanation of 'emotional expression of love towards Guru' is:

    “the respect a disciple, a curoious student has for the teacher which shows the students the righteous ways and spiritual path to one ness with God.

    I am subservient to one God( ParBraham) whom i crave to join on my spiritual path.

    my mind and tongue praises the one God...

    All our Gurus are the Kindered souls which achieved oneness with God and have shown us the way through their teachings and Bani. Now with Bani as the living Guru Guru Granth Sahib becomes my teacher and Guru.

    I hope i was able to explain my point.

    by using word Emotional - i am of the belief that our relation with God and Guru is of love. same love which a person has for its Guide and its Beloved.”



    My Answer:



    Spiritual path may sound very easy to talk about, but it is very difficult to actually walk it.
    On the Spiritual Path when we talk about Guru and Disciple relationship, we are talking about a very unique relationship. It is not a casual but a very pious and Spiritual connection. There are no worldly comparisons.


    When we talk about Matha Tekna, it is our physical demonstrations of affection towards the Guru, (similar to bowing, kissing the hands or feet of the Guru(if living)).

    Affection to Guru in Spiritual sense comes with total devotion and absolute surrender; as this is not normal student teacher relashionship. Surrender in Spiritual sense is: there is no I-ness left anymore. Ego is totally surrendered. What ever Guru is teaching, it is being accepted without any questions.

    When you are walking the Spiritual Path, there is no difference remain between Guru and God. You can get all the guidance from the Divine presence within as well as you can follow a Guru. When you say that you are able to follow the Inner Guide within yourself, you must be capable of understanding what is wrong and what is right, as there is mind in-between. And how tricky this mind can be, you need not to be much of a scholar to know that. Fighting this mind is the key here. “Man Jeetay JagJeet”. How many in this world are capable of doing it, on their own?




    Below is what Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Ram Das Ji says about Guru Chela relationship:

    The very first line says that I would sell myself to that person who will lead me to meet my Lord.


    rwgu sUhI AstpdIAw mhlw 4 Gru 2
    <> siqgur pRswid ]
    koeI Awix imlwvY myrw pRIqmu ipAwrw hau iqsu pih Awpu vycweI ]1]
    drsnu hir dyKx kY qweI ]
    ik®pw krih qw siqguru mylih hir hir nwmu iDAweI ]1] rhwau ]

    jy suKu dyih q quJih ArwDI duiK BI quJY iDAweI ]2]
    jy BuK dyih q ieq hI rwjw duK ivic sUK mnweI ]3]
    qnu mnu kwit kwit sBu ArpI ivic AgnI Awpu jlweI ]4]
    pKw PyrI pwxI Fovw jo dyvih so KweI ]5]
    nwnku grIbu Fih pieAw duAwrY hir myil lYhu vifAweI ]6]
    AKI kwiF DrI crxw qil sB DrqI iPir mq pweI ]7]
    jy pwis bhwlih qw quJih ArwDI jy mwir kFih BI iDAweI ]8]
    jy loku slwhy qw qyrI aupmw jy inMdY q Coif n jweI ]9]
    jy quDu vil rhY qw koeI ikhu AwKau quDu ivsirAY mir jweI ]10]
    vwir vwir jweI gur aUpir pY pYrI sMq mnweI ]11]
    nwnku ivcwrw BieAw idvwnw hir qau drsn kY qweI ]12]
    JKVu JwgI mIhu vrsY BI guru dyKx jweI ]13]
    smuMdu swgru hovY bhu Kwrw gurisKu lµiG gur pih jweI ]14]
    ijau pRwxI jl ibnu hY mrqw iqau isKu gur ibnu mir jweI ]15]
    ijau DrqI soB kry jlu brsY iqau isKu gur imil ibgsweI ]16]
    syvk kw hoie syvku vrqw kir kir ibnau bulweI ]17]
    nwnk kI bynµqI hir pih gur imil gur suKu pweI ]18]
    qU Awpy guru cylw hY Awpy gur ivcu dy quJih iDAweI ]19]
    jo quDu syvih so qUhY hovih quDu syvk pYj rKweI ]20]
    BMfwr Bry BgqI hir qyry ijsu BwvY iqsu dyvweI ]21]
    ijsu qUM dyih soeI jnu pwey hor inhPl sB cqurweI ]22]
    ismir ismir ismir guru Apunw soieAw mnu jwgweI ]23]
    ieku dwnu mMgY nwnku vycwrw hir dwsin dwsu krweI ]24]
    jy guru iJVky q mITw lwgY jy bKsy q gur vifAweI ]25]
    gurmuiK bolih so Qwie pwey mnmuiK ikCu Qwie n pweI ]26]
    pwlw kkru vrP vrsY gurisKu gur dyKx jweI ]27]
    sBu idnsu rYix dyKau guru Apunw ivic AKI gur pYr DrweI ]28]
    Anyk aupwv krI gur kwrix gur BwvY so Qwie pweI ]29]
    rYix idnsu gur crx ArwDI dieAw krhu myry sweI ]30]
    nwnk kw jIau ipMfu gurU hY gur imil iqRpiq AGweI ]31]
    nwnk kw pRBu pUir rihE hY jq kq qq gosweI ]32]1]


    Surrender here is of much mature sense my dear. Here we are not talking of things made of gross material. We are talking of that mind which is made of subtle substance. We as Guru’s disciples, have to embrace Guru’s teachings without resistance. Without surrendering your I-ness, it is not possible.

    Why? As you said “All our Gurus are the Kindered souls which achieved oneness with God and have shown us the way through their teachings and Bani. Now with Bani as the living Guru Guru Granth Sahib becomes my teacher and Guru.”

    A kindred Soul knows the reality that a normal mind (lost in the worldly hush bush) cannot perceive. So this mind has to leave its own intellegence and follow the Guru. Guru literally means "one who dispels darkness". To understand and follow what Guru is saying; we have to strip away the layers of ego.


    If you are capable to the point that you can attain Salvation on your own, yes you can provided you are able to surrender totally to God (Living in God’s Will), because exactly the same is going to happen if you follow your Guru’s teachings; then you do not need a Guru.

    If you need a Guru to walk this path you have to surrender absolutely to your Guru. There is no difference between a Guru and God.

    Being subservient to God comes to you by being subservient (absolute surrender) to your Guru/God. There is no other way. If this mind itself was capable of doing all that is needed for Self Realization, it would have done it by itself; without needing a Guru. If it needs a Guru, then Guru has to be followed subserviently.
     
  11. vipjas_27

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    Re: Mathatakna

    Sat Sri Akal,
    i really appreciate your effort surinder cheema ji,
    thanks for explaining the point . keep it up. and enlighten us with your very valuable words.
    thanks
    vipjas
     
  12. simpy

    simpy
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    Re: Mathatakna

    Respected Vipjas Ji,

    Thanks for your kind response.

    Guru Bhala Karey.
     
  13. Huck_Finn

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    Re: Mathatakna

    dear Sister,

    i echo your views.

    maybe i was not able to clarify my views clearly.


    we cannot learn while keeping Haumai.

    but i am against sheer body/deh worship of Guru granth Sahib
     
  14. simpy

    simpy
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    Re: Mathatakna

    Respected AmarSanghera Ji,

    My effort was to just clarify the subject under discussion. i believe and practice: While we are traveling this shared journey, why not travel it well and be very clear about what we are doing and why.

    When i read your post;
    Surrender to the will of Guru or God?
    I echo views of Max.... though for me it is more of an emotional expression of respect to my beloved Guru and thanking Guru for showing me the way to God.”


    i realized exactly what you were thinking and i knew you are simply not able to verbally accept what your inner voice is telling you. That’s why before saying anything i asked for your explanation. And i did not add anything new to it, just elaborated it.


    Mostly Sikhs are too shy to say that this Mathatakna represents our complete surrender of ego; as mostly it is not being done in practice at all. Mostly it is considered just an outward ritual. That is why it is being treated like idol worship. A lot of people even born in Sikh families are refraining themselves from going to Gurudwara Sahib because they think that Sikh Gurudwaras are now indulging in the idol worshipping. Singing and listening to Bani has become a means of mere sensory enjoyment for many Gurudwara goers.



    Worshipping an idol/object as opposed to God is what is not correct. When we talk about Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji we are not talking about an object/book/granth/pothi here; we are talking about complete consciousness (absolute knowledge). Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is the embodiment of Divine Light not just for the Sikhs but also for all. This is Dhur Ki Bani.

    Read it, Learn it, Understand it and Live it……



    Guru Bhala Karey
     
  15. Huck_Finn

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    Thanks sister,

    i might like to add that i am a novice in terms of knowledge of the immense and valuable truth in the Bani... if i may put it like this...

    i have just tasted the cup with my eyes...and yet i am drunk...

    to me going to Gurudwara is not the only way of expressing subjugation of my ego and self to will of God ..

    it lies more in accpeting life as it is....with a smile and remembering that all said and done...God still loves me as i love Him....
     
  16. simpy

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    Respected AmarSanghera Ji,

    Yes, going to Gurudwara is not the only way. In fact it will do nothing (Spiritually) if one is going there just for the sake of an everyday/weekly ritual or merely a showoff.

    In fact, even religion is one way but not the only way, one can be religious and not spiritual, one can be not religious but spiritual, and one can be both religious and spiritual.


    All that you consider important is all said in Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji over and over again.

    “it lies more in accpeting life as it is....”
    This is Bhana Manana

    “with a smile and remembering that all said and done...”
    Naam Japana(remebrace is Naam Simran)


    “God still loves me as i love Him....


    God loves everybody ( He loves His creation anyways, does not matter, even atheists are His loving children)( When we love Him, we are able to realize the Grace; that’s all)

    Guru Bhala Karey
     
  17. mehar singh

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    Guru pyari sadh sangat my view on this is that Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is the joth of our ten Gurus so when i mathtake to Baba JI(Shri Guru Granth Sahib JI ) i picture all the ten Guru ji there.I pray for all my needs and want because they r our parents and who elese r going to give to us who else r we going to ask from it is them who is going to grant us what we really need be it sukh or dukh.For only they know what is good for us.
     
  18. findingmyway

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    On my recent trip to India I noticed a lot of youngsters touching the feet of elders. Often it was done without emotion and as a ritual. If we are saying metha tekna is a sign of total surrender to the Guru then surely we should not be bowing down to anyone else?

    Secondly, I noticed people would often do metha tek several times in Gurdwara-on the steps, at the door, in front of SGGSJ, at the back, to the palki, to the nishaan etc etc. Surely once directly to SGGSJ is enough if done with the true feeling? Doing metha tek 10 times isn't going to magnify the effect of the feeling?

    Would appreciate thoughts. Thanks
     
  19. spnadmin

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    findingmyway ji

    Matha Tekh is a cultural practice that pre-dates Sikhism in Northern India by centuries. Touching the feet of elders is one form taken. But even matha tekh of the eldest brother of one's husband, one's father in law, one's mother in law by a bride, and even by a woman's relatives of the feet of her husband's father and uncles, was/is a common practice. On entering the house of her mother in law a bride would stoop and touch her veil to her mother in law's feet.

    "I touch my veil to your feet" is a saying that captures the respect paid by mata tekh.

    Matha Tekh of a guru has a particular significance in ancient Hindu beliefs. The feet of the guru are/were believed to complete an arc of spiritual vibration or energy that emanates from that person's being. By touching the feet, the chela or disciple is believed to connect with the guru's spiritual energy. Bathing the feet of a guru is considered an important spiritual event in the life of his disciples.

    Matha Tekh to Guruji then becomes Sikhi's translation of an ancient pattern . Only now given in respect and connection with a modern source of spiritual energy and enlightenment, Sri Guru Granth Sahib.

    My point is that respect for Guruji is not being misplaced when you observe matha Tekh of various forms. It is an ages-old tradition.
     
  20. findingmyway

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    2 questions:
    -If metha tekna for us now means I surrender myself to you then it is no longer appropriate to bow down to anyone other than the Guru?

    -Do we need to do metha tek more than once in the presence of the Guru (not including ardaas)? Will doing metha tek on the stairs, at the door and then in the darbar hall really enhance the meaning?
     
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  21. dalbirk

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    Also finding my way Ji ,
    I am perplexed daily when I see people bowing to Guru Ji from left , right & rear . This bowing from REAR is becoming a rage these days people simply rush while bowing from the front to the backside & then they very FAITHFULLY bow & spend some minutes praying . I am not able to make out why these practices are gaining ground .
     
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