Does Sikhism give any direct importance to dreams?

Astroboy · #1 (**permalink**) 05-Nov-2011, 22:09 PM

By posing the above question, I am not asking for references about this world being an illusion like a dream. What I really want to know is more to the importance of dreams in Sikhism. It can be your personal experience, if you want to share. Or it can be a reference from scriptures or writings by Sikh authors.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/37528-does-sikhism-give-any-direct-importance.html
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37528

I know many of you might have similar questions in mind, so let's share and learn from each other.
*

Ambarsaria · #2 (**permalink**) 05-Nov-2011, 22:30 PM

Asroboy ji thanks for your post. Great question.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37528

Personally for me the dreams have almost always been related to trial and tribulations of day to day living, guides generally by the five thieves residing in me or the five thieves expressing through other characters in the dreams. One has to recognize that most dreams are not visible or remembered by us. The only dreams that we can remember are the ones which happen in half-awake state.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37528

I have some superstitious associations with dreams but don't believe in them as anything other than wanderings of our mind. I know that superstitious associations are debunked by Sikhism. So I don't know of any value or contribution of dreams to Sikhism living.

Sat Sri Akal.

harry haller · #3 (**permalink**) 05-Nov-2011, 23:00 PM

I do not know if anyone has ever had any lucid dreams? Lucid dreams are dreams where you wake up in the middle of the dream, ie, You are still in the dream, but you know you are dreaming, in effect, you become superman, you can do anything you want, when I was little, I used to steal buses and drive them over cliffs, as I got older I did whatever it was I wanted to do, as time went on, I embraced Herman Hesse's philosophy that if you had no fear of death, and were prepared to die rather than wake up, then life could be a lucid dream, but thats another story.

My last lucid dream I had before I met my wife, I have not had a lucid dream since, I was dreaming I was in walking down a road, and suddenly I knew I was dreaming, I found the first lady that seemed willing, and did what had to be done, I then woke up in my bed, but realised I was still dreaming, running out of my house, I encountered the same lady and again did what had to be done, this happened 7 or 8 times, and towards the end, I didnt even bother getting dressed, I just shot out of bed and ran into the street to find my special lucid dream friend, by the 10th time, I was just in the process of running down the stairs, without a stitch of clothing on, when I stopped, something didnt feel right, it didnt feel like the other 9 dreams, just as I was opening the front door, I realised that there was no 10th dream, I had actually woken up, the horror of what could have happened hit me, and strangely I have not had a lucid dream since.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37528
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37528

spnadmin · #4 (**permalink**) 06-Nov-2011, 00:50 AM

The shabads from SriRaag are very long. So, I have posted only a part of one here on the subject.

The full shabad begins on Ang 62. http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gur...=1&t=1&p=0&k=0

Quote:

ਨਾਮ ਵਿਹੂਣੇ ਕਿਆ ਗਣੀ ਜਿਸੁ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਰ ਦਰਸੁ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥੬॥
नाम विहूणे किआ गणी जिसु हरि गुर दरसु न होइ ॥६॥
Nām vihūṇe ki▫ā gaṇī jis har gur ḏaras na ho▫e. ||6||
Without the Naam, what good those who do not have the Blessed Vision, the Darshan of the Lord and Guru? ||6||

ਜਿਉ ਸੁਪਨੈ ਨਿਸਿ ਭੁਲੀਐ ਜਬ ਲਗਿ ਨਿਦ੍ਰਾ ਹੋਇ ॥
जिउ सुपनै निसि भुलीऐ जब लगि निद्रा होइ ॥
Ji▫o supnai nis bẖulī▫ai jab lag niḏrā ho▫e.
In their dreams at night, people wander around as long as they sleep;

ਇਉ ਸਰਪਨਿ ਕੈ ਵਸਿ ਜੀਅੜਾ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਹਉਮੈ ਦੋਇ ॥
इउ सरपनि कै वसि जीअड़ा अंतरि हउमै दोइ ॥
I▫o sarpan kai vas jī▫aṛā anṯar ha▫umai ḏo▫e.
just so, they are under the power of the snake Maya, as long as their hearts are filled with ego and duality.

ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਹੋਇ ਵੀਚਾਰੀਐ ਸੁਪਨਾ ਇਹੁ ਜਗੁ ਲੋਇ ॥੭॥
गुरमति होइ वीचारीऐ सुपना इहु जगु लोइ ॥७॥
Gurmaṯ ho▫e vīcẖārī▫ai supnā ih jag lo▫e. ||7||
Through the Guru's Teachings, they come to understand and see that this world is just a dream. ||7||

ਅਗਨਿ ਮਰੈ ਜਲੁ ਪਾਈਐ ਜਿਉ ਬਾਰਿਕ ਦੂਧੈ ਮਾਇ ॥
अगनि मरै जलु पाईऐ जिउ बारिक दूधै माइ ॥
Agan marai jal pā▫ī▫ai ji▫o bārik ḏūḏẖai mā▫e.
As thirst is quenched with water, and the baby is satisfied with mother's milk,

ਬਿਨੁ ਜਲ ਕਮਲ ਸੁ ਨਾ ਥੀਐ ਬਿਨੁ ਜਲ ਮੀਨੁ ਮਰਾਇ ॥
बिनु जल कमल सु ना थीऐ बिनु जल मीनु मराइ ॥
Bin jal kamal so nā thī▫ai bin jal mīn marā▫e.
and as the lotus does not exist without water, and as the fish dies without water -

ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਹਰਿ ਰਸਿ ਮਿਲੈ ਜੀਵਾ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਇ ॥੮॥੧੫॥
नानक गुरमुखि हरि रसि मिलै जीवा हरि गुण गाइ ॥८॥१५॥
Nānak gurmukẖ har ras milai jīvā har guṇ gā▫e. ||8||15||
O Guru Nanak, so does the Gurmukh live, receiving the Sublime Essence of the Lord, and singing the Glorious Praises of the Lord. ||8||15||

Ang 63

Astroboy ji,

You ask about the "direct importance" of dreams and I don't know what you mean by that. My reply may be therefore on a tangent. However, in shabadguru ordinary reality and consciousness is thought of as a dream, even a nightmare, from which we with fortune emerge if we open up to the iight of Gurprasad. So dreams are the work of mun and mislead us.

The rehao line in this shabad, on Ang 62, provides the key

Quote:

ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਨੁ ਨਿਰਮਲੋ ਗੁਰੁ ਦਾਤਿ ਕਰੇ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਸੋਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
राम नामु धनु निरमलो गुरु दाति करे प्रभु सोइ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Rām nām ḏẖan nirmalo gur ḏāṯ kare parabẖ so▫e. ||1|| rahā▫o.
The Lord's Name is the pure wealth; through the Guru, God bestows this gift. ||1||Pause||

Naam is the gift of pure wisdom, the dhan nirmalo gur. It comes from the Guru himself, parabh so-e. I know it is true that there have been important personages in Sikhi such as Bhai Vir Singh whose dreams still drive the consciousness of many of the quom even today. But in gurbani messages from other realms, keys to the future, etc. don't seem to fit.

A full search on the word "dream" in Shabadguru leads to a remarkable collection of shabads that teach in remarkable ways.

spnadmin · #5 (**permalink**) 06-Nov-2011, 01:06 AM

If I may add. Your question is a very significant question for me. Just as many here at SPN speak of how Guru Nanak anticipated the thinking of today's science of physics, I have been continually in awe of his grasp of psychology, human psychology. Guru Nanak anticipated the modern psychologists. He understood that the mind misleads a human's ability to sort truth from reality, which is subjective. The grand theorists of the 19th and 20the centuries believed like Guru Nanak that dreams are the work of the mind. When thought relaxes during sleep, the barriers of consciousness soften. Resistances to things that seem illogical or irrational are lowered.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37528
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37528

All of this means that in sleep our mind gives way to its crazy side. In dreams we can unravel our fears and wishes, while awake we may be embarrassed by them. This is the side of the mind that Guru Nanak calls our "troubled minds." There is much there that we are blind to in our waking hours: our pride, anger, lust, and the rest.

Our wishes and fears are revealed in dreams. These are real, but they are subjective. As such they are the "royal road" to our neuroses as Sigmund Freud said. They can be understood as keys to our troubled minds, but should not be confused with truth. For dreams are part of the veil of illusion, or what easterners call Maya.

Astroboy · #6 (**permalink**) 08-Nov-2011, 22:26 PM

On page of 558 of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji there appears a very long shabad of Guru Nanak on the darshan of Akaal Purukh and this particular line about a dream had kept me guessing :-
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37528
ਸੁਪਨੈ ਆਇਆ ਭੀ ਗਇਆ ਮੈ ਜਲੁ ਭਰਿਆ ਰੋਇ ॥
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=37528
सुपनै आइआ भी गइआ मै जलु भरिआ रोइ ॥
Supnai ā▫i▫ā bẖī ga▫i▫ā mai jal bẖari▫ā ro▫e.
In a dream, He came, and went away again; I cried so many tears.

Please share your views if this shows importance of the darshan in the dream state.

Scarlet Pimpernel · #7 (**permalink**) 09-Nov-2011, 02:33 AM

Quote:

Please share your views if this shows importance of the darshan in the dream state.

Veer Ji When I was very young my Dad taught me to say 'Thann Baba Nanak',I used to say it in dreams when I got scared.I guess darshan in a dream is very rare but so is darshan of any type.

Ambarsaria · #8 (**permalink**) 09-Nov-2011, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astroboy

On page of 558 of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji there appears a very long shabad of Guru Nanak on the darshan of Akaal Purukh and this particular line about a dream had kept me guessing :-
ਸੁਪਨੈ ਆਇਆ ਭੀ ਗਇਆ ਮੈ ਜਲੁ ਭਰਿਆ ਰੋਇ ॥
सुपनै आइआ भी गइआ मै जलु भरिआ रोइ ॥
Supnai ā▫i▫ā bẖī ga▫i▫ā mai jal bẖari▫ā ro▫e.
In a dream, He came, and went away again; I cried so many tears.

Please share your views if this shows importance of the darshan in the dream state.

Astroboy ji I don't understand. Darshan of what?

You got to have a visual unless Darshan is wearing a name tag. If one had no definition of form of the creator, what are you expecting!

Don,t you see all with eyes open and what is stopping you from seeing ever more of to your heart's content with eyes open.

Sat Sri Akal.

Astroboy · #9 (**permalink**) 09-Nov-2011, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ambarsaria

Astroboy ji I don't understand. Darshan of what?

You got to have a visual unless Darshan is wearing a name tag. If one had no definition of form of the creator, what are you expecting!

Don,t you see all with eyes open and what is stopping you from seeing ever more of to your heart's content with eyes open.

Sat Sri Akal.

Please expand on your understanding of the reason why the line quote exists - in relation to what then?