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Does Sikhism give any direct importance to dreams?

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by Astroboy, Nov 5, 2011.

  1. Astroboy

    Astroboy ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap) SPNer

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    By posing the above question, I am not asking for references about this world being an illusion like a dream. What I really want to know is more to the importance of dreams in Sikhism. It can be your personal experience, if you want to share. Or it can be a reference from scriptures or writings by Sikh authors.

    I know many of you might have similar questions in mind, so let's share and learn from each other.
     
  2. Ambarsaria

    Ambarsaria ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār SPNer

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    Asroboy ji thanks for your post. Great question.

    Personally for me the dreams have almost always been related to trial and tribulations of day to day living, guides generally by the five thieves residing in me or the five thieves expressing through other characters in the dreams. One has to recognize that most dreams are not visible or remembered by us. The only dreams that we can remember are the ones which happen in half-awake state.

    I have some superstitious associations with dreams but don't believe in them as anything other than wanderings of our mind. I know that superstitious associations are debunked by Sikhism. So I don't know of any value or contribution of dreams to Sikhism living.

    Sat Sri Akal.
     
  3. harry haller

    harry haller SPNer

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    I do not know if anyone has ever had any lucid dreams? Lucid dreams are dreams where you wake up in the middle of the dream, ie, You are still in the dream, but you know you are dreaming, in effect, you become superman, you can do anything you want, when I was little, I used to steal buses and drive them over cliffs, as I got older I did whatever it was I wanted to do, as time went on, I embraced Herman Hesse's philosophy that if you had no fear of death, and were prepared to die rather than wake up, then life could be a lucid dream, but thats another story.

    My last lucid dream I had before I met my wife, I have not had a lucid dream since, I was dreaming I was in walking down a road, and suddenly I knew I was dreaming, I found the first lady that seemed willing, and did what had to be done, I then woke up in my bed, but realised I was still dreaming, running out of my house, I encountered the same lady and again did what had to be done, this happened 7 or 8 times, and towards the end, I didnt even bother getting dressed, I just shot out of bed and ran into the street to find my special lucid dream friend, by the 10th time, I was just in the process of running down the stairs, without a stitch of clothing on, when I stopped, something didnt feel right, it didnt feel like the other 9 dreams, just as I was opening the front door, I realised that there was no 10th dream, I had actually woken up, the horror of what could have happened hit me, and strangely I have not had a lucid dream since.

    icecreamkaur
     
  4. spnadmin

    spnadmin SPNer

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    The shabads from SriRaag are very long. So, I have posted only a part of one here on the subject.

    The full shabad begins on Ang 62. http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=62&g=1&h=1&r=1&t=1&p=0&k=0




    Ang 63

    Astroboy ji,

    You ask about the "direct importance" of dreams and I don't know what you mean by that. My reply may be therefore on a tangent. However, in shabadguru ordinary reality and consciousness is thought of as a dream, even a nightmare, from which we with fortune emerge if we open up to the iight of Gurprasad. So dreams are the work of mun and mislead us.

    The rehao line in this shabad, on Ang 62, provides the key

    Naam is the gift of pure wisdom, the dhan nirmalo gur. It comes from the Guru himself, parabh so-e. I know it is true that there have been important personages in Sikhi such as Bhai Vir Singh whose dreams still drive the consciousness of many of the quom even today. But in gurbani messages from other realms, keys to the future, etc. don't seem to fit.

    A full search on the word "dream" in Shabadguru leads to a remarkable collection of shabads that teach in remarkable ways.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2011
  5. spnadmin

    spnadmin SPNer

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    If I may add. Your question is a very significant question for me. Just as many here at SPN speak of how Guru Nanak anticipated the thinking of today's science of physics, I have been continually in awe of his grasp of psychology, human psychology. Guru Nanak anticipated the modern psychologists. He understood that the mind misleads a human's ability to sort truth from reality, which is subjective. The grand theorists of the 19th and 20the centuries believed like Guru Nanak that dreams are the work of the mind. When thought relaxes during sleep, the barriers of consciousness soften. Resistances to things that seem illogical or irrational are lowered.

    All of this means that in sleep our mind gives way to its crazy side. In dreams we can unravel our fears and wishes, while awake we may be embarrassed by them. This is the side of the mind that Guru Nanak calls our "troubled minds." There is much there that we are blind to in our waking hours: our pride, anger, lust, and the rest.

    Our wishes and fears are revealed in dreams. These are real, but they are subjective. As such they are the "royal road" to our neuroses as Sigmund Freud said. They can be understood as keys to our troubled minds, but should not be confused with truth. For dreams are part of the veil of illusion, or what easterners call Maya.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2011
  6. Astroboy

    Astroboy ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap) SPNer

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    On page of 558 of SGGS there appears a very long shabad of Guru Nanak on the darshan of Akaal Purukh and this particular line about a dream had kept me guessing :-
    [SIZE=+1]ਸੁਪਨੈ ਆਇਆ ਭੀ ਗਇਆ ਮੈ ਜਲੁ ਭਰਿਆ ਰੋਇ [/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+1]सुपनै आइआ भी गइआ मै जलु भरिआ रोइ ॥[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+1]Supnai ā▫i▫ā bẖī ga▫i▫ā mai jal bẖari▫ā ro▫e.[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=+1]In a dream, He came, and went away again; I cried so many tears.[/SIZE]


    Please share your views if this shows importance of the darshan in the dream state.
     
  7. Scarlet Pimpernel

    Scarlet Pimpernel We seek him here,we sikh SPNer

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    Veer Ji When I was very young my Dad taught me to say 'Thann Baba Nanak',I used to say it in dreams when I got scared.I guess darshan in a dream is very rare but so is darshan of any type.
     
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  8. Ambarsaria

    Ambarsaria ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār SPNer

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    Astroboy ji I don't understand. Darshan of what?

    You got to have a visual unless Darshan is wearing a name tag. If one had no definition of form of the creator, what are you expecting!

    Don,t you see all with eyes open and what is stopping you from seeing ever more of to your heart's content with eyes open.

    Sat Sri Akal.
     
  9. Astroboy

    Astroboy ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap) SPNer

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    Please expand on your understanding of the reason why the line quote exists - in relation to what then?
     
  10. Ambarsaria

    Ambarsaria ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār SPNer

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    Astroboy ji I do not comment on tuks and I am more than happy to give my understanding of complete shabads and request corrections.

    Please post the full shabad in "Gurmat Vichhar" section with your understanding and I will be happy to provide my input as perhaps will others.

    Sat Sri Akal.

    Note: Astroboy ji I posted the shabad here,

    http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/gurmat-vichaar/37557-shabad-mor-ru-j-u-l.html
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2011
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  11. Scarlet Pimpernel

    Scarlet Pimpernel We seek him here,we sikh SPNer

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    Astro Veera ,Have you been so lucky as to have seen Gods projection in a dream? Ofcourse you don't have to answer that question,I guess the line means only the one who will cry in separation will 'see' what unity with the formless-form is like.

    <TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=5><TBODY><TR><TD>[SIZE=+1]mwrU mhlw 5 ] [/SIZE]</TD></TR><TR><TD>Maaroo, Fifth Mehl: </TD></TR><TR><TD>maaroo mehlaa 5. </TD></TR><TR><TD></TD></TR><TR><TD>[SIZE=+1]bwhir FUFn qy CUit pry guir Gr hI mwih idKwieAw Qw ] [/SIZE]</TD></TR><TR><TD>I have quit searching outside; the Guru has shown me that God is within the home of my own heart. </TD></TR><TR><TD>baahar dhoodhan tay chhoot paray gur ghar hee maahi dikhaa-i-aa thaa. </TD></TR><TR><TD></TD></TR><TR><TD>[SIZE=+1]AnBau Acrj rUpu pRB pyiKAw myrw mnu Coif n kqhU jwieAw Qw ]1] [/SIZE]</TD></TR><TR><TD>I have seen God, fearless, of wondrous beauty; my mind shall never leave Him to go anywhere else. ||1||
    (p1002)
    </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2012
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  12. Astroboy

    Astroboy ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap) SPNer

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    Another query still lingering in mind is about this Bhai Gurdas Ki Vaar 37

    supan charitar chitar banak bane bachithra pavan pavithr mitar aaj more aaye hai
    param dayal laal lochan bisal mukha
    bachan rasal madh madhur piya aayi hai
    sobhith sijasan bilasan dhaia(n)kamala
    praemaras bisam hue sehaj samahiye hai
    chathrik shabad sun akhian oughar gi
    bhi jal min gath bire jagaye ae hai
     

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