How wrong am I?

harry haller · #1 (**permalink**) 18-Sep-2011, 17:38 PM

Gurfatehji,

I have now spent several months in contemplation of my life, and how I can be a better sikh, this is not made any easier by the many many conflicting views that exist not only on the internet, but indeed on this forum. In my view every moment trying to get another to see your point of view, is a moment wasted, after a while, all you are left with is your own mind, and whatever interpretation your mind puts on Gurbani.

SO without further ado, here lies my interpretation of Gurbani that I have finally found some peace with, I do not think it was the intention of our Gurus to have us beat ourselves up about how short we fall, as long as we accept that we fall short, I think the problem lies with those that fall short and then manipulate Gurbani to suit their own shortcomings. This is my heartfelt view, and is personal only to me and my circumstances, so I have dispensed with the use of the words, I think, possibly, maybe,
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/36976-how-wrong-am-i.html

I live in a world surrounded by the creation of a force. This force is the pinnacle of duality, it knows everything, it knows nothing, it is in everything, it is in nothing, it responds to all names, it has no name, it is the biggest thing you could imagine, it is the smallest thing,

I almost feel like where this force is concerned, take everything you know about it, and embrace the opposite, you still know as much about it as you did before,

This force does not care what you do, what you think, what you say, what you eat, however there are consequences to your actions, words, deeds, and if you are savvy, you will know which actions, words, deeds, thoughts are going to bear fruit for you, or bear poison, luck exists, but not in the stars or in rituals, luck is the good fortune of having certain circumstances together which may boost something that will bear you fruit, or ease your poison, so in that sense, we can make our own luck, by keeping our eyes and ears open, and being receptive to moods and circumstances.

This force does not need your prayer, you pray for yourself, for your own ends, neither does it need your praise or worship, if you feel the need to express the joy of your living in prayer and worship, great, if you feel the need to express this by sewa, great, however a wise person would explore the words and philosophies as contained in the Guru written manuscripts, and devour them, hungrily to expand their own knowledge base to call upon whilst living,.

Sow a thought and you reap an action; sow an act and you reap a habit; sow a habit and you reap a character; sow a character and you reap a destiny.

I have now basically come full circle back to where I was when I first landed here, the only difference is I have lost the wolf, tamed one of the last of my destructive habits, and now believe in god, and call myself a sikh.

However I refuse to beat myself up that I still do not have a turban, still drink, and still love intimacy, I intend to live for a while in this state, till my next big push, and I can honestly say I am quite happy to be me.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=36976

How Wrong am I?

Pablo · #2 (**permalink**) 18-Sep-2011, 18:30 PM

I am glad that another person has found happiness within themselves and who they are...

Subjectively speaking now we just need to get you to that state without needing a faith in a force or a creator !
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=36976

harry haller · #3 (**permalink**) 18-Sep-2011, 18:49 PM

Thank you Veer Pabloji,

creator/force exists, it is not a question of faith, nor is it a question of compromise, I have no faith at all, I am as sure that this force exists as I am that you are my brother, neither have I compromised, the benefits of complete submission are just not open to me if I hold this position, but I am going to hold this position regardless as it is, for me, the balance between living and being an ascetic, it is peaceful, and I am content, pushing forward just brings on guilt at what I lack, falling behind just brings confusion,

Ambarsaria · #4 (**permalink**) 21-Sep-2011, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harry haller

Gurfatehji,

I have now spent several months in contemplation of my life, and how I can be a better sikh, this is not made any easier by the many many conflicting views that exist not only on the internet, but indeed on this forum. In my view every moment trying to get another to see your point of view, is a moment wasted, after a while, all you are left with is your own mind, and whatever interpretation your mind puts on Gurbani.

SO without further ado, here lies my interpretation of Gurbani that I have finally found some peace with, I do not think it was the intention of our Gurus to have us beat ourselves up about how short we fall, as long as we accept that we fall short, I think the problem lies with those that fall short and then manipulate Gurbani to suit their own shortcomings. This is my heartfelt view, and is personal only to me and my circumstances, so I have dispensed with the use of the words, I think, possibly, maybe,

I live in a world surrounded by the creation of a force. This force is the pinnacle of duality, it knows everything, it knows nothing, it is in everything, it is in nothing, it responds to all names, it has no name, it is the biggest thing you could imagine, it is the smallest thing,

I almost feel like where this force is concerned, take everything you know about it, and embrace the opposite, you still know as much about it as you did before,

This force does not care what you do, what you think, what you say, what you eat, however there are consequences to your actions, words, deeds, and if you are savvy, you will know which actions, words, deeds, thoughts are going to bear fruit for you, or bear poison, luck exists, but not in the stars or in rituals, luck is the good fortune of having certain circumstances together which may boost something that will bear you fruit, or ease your poison, so in that sense, we can make our own luck, by keeping our eyes and ears open, and being receptive to moods and circumstances.

This force does not need your prayer, you pray for yourself, for your own ends, neither does it need your praise or worship, if you feel the need to express the joy of your living in prayer and worship, great, if you feel the need to express this by sewa, great, however a wise person would explore the words and philosophies as contained in the Guru written manuscripts, and devour them, hungrily to expand their own knowledge base to call upon whilst living,.

Sow a thought and you reap an action; sow an act and you reap a habit; sow a habit and you reap a character; sow a character and you reap a destiny.

I have now basically come full circle back to where I was when I first landed here, the only difference is I have lost the wolf, tamed one of the last of my destructive habits, and now believe in god, and call myself a sikh.

However I refuse to beat myself up that I still do not have a turban, still drink, and still love intimacy, I intend to live for a while in this state, till my next big push, and I can honestly say I am quite happy to be me.

How Wrong am I?

Harry brother you are among others in a same state and include me if you be so kind. You are absolutely right and not with anyone's assistance, if I may say

. I believe Sinner brother is pretty close but he is looking for perfection and he needs to give up on that (oh no did I hijack the thread, this is about Harry

).

Wonderfully stated and it is not rocket science but a blissful realization.

Sat Sri Akal.

harry haller · #5 (**permalink**) 21-Sep-2011, 15:18 PM

its a good place to be Ambersariaji, a good base point, its good to be alive

Scarlet Pimpernel · #6 (**permalink**) 21-Sep-2011, 17:18 PM

Veer Ji ,I was trying to abstain, but sister Ji was 'Losing her faith' on the other thread,and she emptied her heart full of dread,I wrote her a poem as she was in a state, thought better say something before it's too late!
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=36976
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=36976
If there is anyone on this earth who is not looking for the perfection (God)?

harry haller · #7 (**permalink**) 21-Sep-2011, 17:27 PM

Please don't abstain veerji, you do not realise how important the shinning of your torch is on subjects like these, I will learn from you whether you like it or not

Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=36976
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=36976

I am not looking for god, nor perfection, I am on a journey of knowledge and understanding, god has already found me, as he has found you, but it is a dangerous road to feel that tomorrow will bring the answers, when all we have is today, no?

Scarlet Pimpernel · #8 (**permalink**) 21-Sep-2011, 17:37 PM

Harry Veer Ji ,Ambarsaria ,Harry and me ,we are the three musketeers! All for One,One for all ! you know it all ,it just needs to be realised veera.If you were born on desert Island, no other person on it,how would you do it ,only you know how right or wrong you are. As the poet said only a person with a saaf neet (clean mental intention)meets God

Randip Singh · #9 (**permalink**) 21-Sep-2011, 17:49 PM

I ask myself, what does "Sikh" mean? It means "to learn". If we show that willingness to learn then we're on the right path. If all adherents to our faith knew everything, then we wouldn't be called teh Sikh Faith but the Guru Faith.

Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=36976
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=36976

The aim's such as controlling the 5 thieves and moving from Self willed to God willed is difficult, and the reality is we all fluctuate betweeen the two.