Mool-Mantar

AMBARSARIA Ji,

It is threetimes that the words MANTRa and MOOL have been used togetger in Gurbani
First pp156...second pp675 ...and third pp1040.

I may bring to your kind observation that the Quote at pp1940 is from RAAG MAROOand the whole shabad is quite long.There is no RAHAO tuk in the shabad.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/25273-mool-mantar.html
So every para of this Shabad is a complete message initself.

There is reference of other MANTRAs like BEEJ MANTRA.......NAAMu MANTRA ....and GUR MANTRA other than the word MOOL MANTRA.in Gurbaani.
Knowing this shall reveal a lot .

Prakash.S.Bagga

 
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Prakash S. Bagga ji I checked all three that you kindly flagged.


pp156... reverse order from mool mantar (ਮੰਤਰ੍ ਮੂਲ)
second pp675 ... reverse order from mool mantar (ਮੰਤਰ੍ ਮੂਲ)
and third pp1040 ... (ਮੂਲ ਮੰਤਰ੍ੁ)

From my limited knowledge and study none of the uses in the "Shabad" are in the context of a "Noun" or a "Name" but an "adjective". Hence these shabads just because they have the two words cannot be called "Mool Mantar".

Sat Sri Akal.

which Banis in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji are Nameless ?? Please give Panna numbers ? How are they identified in the tatkara ?? or are they listed in the Tatkara at all ??
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=25273
Thank You.

I humbly submit that there is actually no such thing as a "Mantar/Jantar/Tantar/" in Gurmatt Philosophy.
There is NO SUCH THING as...."Mool Mantar...Beej Mantar..whatever Mantar/Jantar/Tantar..............in GURBANI/GURMATT/Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. ALL these words are HUMAN CONSTRUCTION. GURMATT has no place for any invocations and mantars as is the NORM in Hinduism.

ON Panna 1040 Guru Ji has so CLEARLY explained that "moolmantar" is HIS NAAM. And HIS NAAM as we know is the ENTIRE GURBANI...yes the ENTIRE and COMPLETE 1429 aangs full in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

The Mantar jantar tantar "concept" was and still IS..widely practised by the Brahmins ...to "protect..empower..ward off evil eyes, black magic, engage in bodily penances like tapisayah, to gain vars form devtas, or curse enemies, to get wishes fulfilled as ability to defy "death" by whatever means - weapons, day time night time,hands of man woman or animals etc etc ( and the VILY BRahmin always has a loophole that makes the WISH GRANTER absolved from having granted his undefendable wish to defy death simply becasue whoever is BORN must inevitably DIE..os there is TRICKERY invoked...as was in Harnaksh's death..and various others as well who had been granted such death defying wishes only to be KILLED via LOOPHOLE which they OVERLOOKED..HA HA ). Even TODAY just switch on your TV or satellite channel and watch HOW the Mantars, jantars, tantars get SOLD..to ward off the evil eye..buree nazar hatao mantar..win court cases mantar, control wife/hisband mantar, get rich mantar..get a male baby mantar..etc etc etc.... IN GURU NANAK JIS PERIOD too the BRAHMIN was similarly engaged in LOOTING the unwary and innocent PUBLIC via his mantars and jantars and Tantars.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=25273

GURU NANAK JI SAHIB totally REJECTED all this Mantars-mool/beej/root/jarrh/phal/whatever !!!!....
.
GURU JI DECLARED that the ONE and ONLY "mantar" one needs is HIS NAAM....and in Gurbani its clearly explained that NAAM is to be PRACTISED....not "muttered" and THROWN into the Havan Fire to produce a Magical WISH...or BLOWN at your ENEMY to smite him down..or tied up in a tweet-amulet and hung around the neck or tied to the upper arms, or to influence the judge to rule in your favour..or to make a river of money flow into your bank balance.
His NAAM..is His GUNNS...His ATTRIBUTES...His ways....and to "Mantrise His Naam"..means to PRACTISE His gunns, His attributes..His Ways..into ONES LIFE..so that the daily Life IMPROVES for the BETTER...changes for the Better..we become calmer, mellowed, loving towards all, sans enmity, sans jealousy, sans fear of death...see HIM in ALL His CREATION...lose all sense of DUALITY and follow just HIM..EK !! become travellers on HIS PATh..follow in HIS WAYS...Mitth Bollrra Ji Har sajaan Mera....Kadeh na boleh kaurra types...always FORGIVING..all Merciful...dyawaan, kirtwaan (vehlarr sadhs and sants are NOT like Him at all becasue HE is continously at WORK in His creation..everything He Created is in Continous MOTION !!! Haath paer chaldeh..Maan usdeh naal), Waand chhakkan walleh, grishtee ghar ghaat walleh - (Dhobee de kutteh waang aidher udher bhtakan walleh mangteh nahin ).
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=25273

BUT most unfortunately GURMATT....the Pristine Gurmatt of Guru nanak ji came under constant attack form the Bippar from day ONE...Udasis, Nirmalas SAFFRONISED "sikhs" came to control the House of Nanak ( while the real SIKHS were busy fighting for their survival with their heads being sold at RS 80 each...the Gurdwaras, the Gurbani etc came under control of Nirmalas and Udasis )..these saffronised sikhs under heavy influence of their bippar roots, sought to bring back form the RUBBISH BIN, Everything that Guru ji had DISCARDED as UTTER RUBBISH. these people wanted Sikhs to begin slipping back into the PIT of Brahmanwaad....begin MISUSING "Gurbani" as mantars, Jantars, tantars..to get wishes..make death defying amulets, stop evil eyes, buree nazars etc etc and thus were these mantar ideas reborn. NAAM was not to be "practised"..it was to be "muttered"...and mutterings led to NUMBERINGS....5 mutters..51 mutters..101 mutters..1001 mutters..125,000 mutters...all having various "Phalls"..fruits....baby boy..so many mutterings...riches beyond imagination..so many lakh mutterings...and then as mutterings of merely "moolmantars" werent enough VARIETY...new holy men/mahapurahs/brahmgyanis..introduced..other "mantars"..beej..root..jarrh..various TUKS..cut out from complete shbads were misinterpreted LITERALLY...to incite FEAR..etc and BEND the UNWARY to their WILL....various shbads were given out for mutterings/paaths...BUT NO PRACTISING WAS EVER EMPHASISED as that would have meant UNDERSTANDING...of Gurbani....and thus discouraged. KNOWLEDGE...is GYAAN...and our GURU JI knew this FACT...thats why He emphasised GYAAN..UNDERSTANDING..PRACTISE...but then Guru Ji came to IMPROVE our lives NOT PROFIT form US..or LOOT us...unlike the "Mahapurashs/brahmgyanis/sants/derawadees/etc etc whose only interests was their own DERA/GOLUCK/increase in their followers/sewaks !!!

Thus we had the introduction ( I call it REVERSAL into Bipparism) of WORDS instead of PRACTICAL LIVING....MoolMantars, BeejMnatrs, manglacharns etc etc where NONE EXISTED before.

2. The Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as originally written was in POTHI FORM. EACH RAAG had its own POTHI. Thats why EACH RAAG has the SAME INVOCATION that appears at the very beginning. When Guru Arjun Ji sahib BOUND the various raag Pothis into one BIR/JILD..the previous arrangement of Gurbani as written remained. That is WHY the EK Oangkaar up to Gurparsaad in FULL is REPEATED at the BEGINNING of every RAAG "pothi". This was Given Place of PROMINENCE.

3. Sikhs are known to fall backwards very fast. When GURU NANAK JI saw the futile small "aartee" being performed by humans..HE took DYA on US all and invited us to catch hold of his little finger while He took us UP HIGH into the SKY and SHOW us the MIGHTY AARTEE GOING ON in the UNIVERSE..SELF SUSTAINED AARTEE continously being performed....and we "accompanied" GRU JI..up the mountain...saw what He showed us..and then..slowly slipped BACK to the foot of the mountain..picked up the small thalees, placed some insignificant ghee deevahs, put in a few metal khandas and ek onagkar symbols..and began waving that TINY THAAL in GURU JIS FACE !!! ..and to add insult to injury..READ OUT LOUD HIS DESCRIPTION OF THE UNIVERSAL AARTEE being continously performed BY THE CREATOR HIMSELF ??????...Throwing Broken LIFELESS FLOWERS at Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji while singing Patee torreh maalni..patii patti JEEO....????? Here Take this..here take this...pattee torreh maalni...!!!!

Gyani ji

I think you are referring to this in the video above

Gyani Jarnail Singh ji I used to believe in the following per your quote below,

It is perhaps of recent that I became sensitive to it. Mantars remind ("shoo mantar", or translate Abracadabra) of magic if I am not mistaken and I think some babey give people "perchian" (small paper pieces folded with words on) and ask people to drink water by dunking the paper in the water for whatever the original purpose was to get magical energy/success/boy baby/, etc.

I will go back to my original beliefs (no mantars) , is there a need to refer to the following with a name or not,

I personally don't care for a name as understanding is what counts, but in case it is more proper to give it one based on others wisdom.

Thank you Gyani ji for a wonderful post. I wish it had started the thread versus the original post in this thread.



Sat Sri Akal.

AMBARSARIA Ji,
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=25273

The combination of the words MANTRA MOOL is a NOUN by virtue of other words connected to this.Sometime later you may realise this if you really understand how the words are NOUN in certain casesas per Gurbaani grammer.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=25273

So according to your present understanding of grammer Gurbani is not telling about as to what is the MOOL MANTRA/MANTRA MOOL.
And "it is called MOOL MANTRA" should be accepted.This way any oneis free to accept
anything.Certaily this is impossible for me to accept any thing which is to be called without any evidence from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji .

Prakash.S.Bagga

Prakash S. Bagga ji I understand the line very well.

Greater than acceptance is understanding for me.

As long as one understands, acceptance goes without saying.

For me it is like "pani rirkan wali gal" (skimming water to get butter) and I don't want to say much more. I fully understand per Gyani Jarnail Singh ji's input and Professor Sahib Singh ji's Darpan translation help.

With this one done for me, I will be focusing on other topics.

Regards

Sat Sri Akal.