Is There Any 'Choice' in God's Creation?

akal_jsingh · #1 (**permalink**) 28-Apr-2009, 18:07 PM

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Consider the following: There are two sets of people.

Set 1 = those trying to reach God (whichever faith, through whichever ways, and good ways + very strictly speaking very good Sikhs which we would call Gurmukhs).

The other set (set 2) being people either ignorant of the need to pursue God or having willingly decided to lead a non-pursuit of God existence.

The first set.. will in our religion act acc. to Sikhi acc. as per the individual's realisation/ perception.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/24746-is-there-any-choice-gods-creation.html

The 2nd set, will.. today or tomorrow... this birth or the next... by love or by troubles... will.. feel a need.. and thereby slowly and slowly a... movement towards God.

SO... both sets move towards God. Set 1 moving better.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24746

The way of Set 1 is also a tough way. Its not a straight sailing. 'Sikhi Waalon Neeki, Khandeon Teekhi' - Guru Amardas.

My ques: Where in this whole equation is the sould being asked if it wants to play this game / or give this examination = God = destination... ?

Someone like me says... I never wanted to play it.. ?

What am I doing here... ? Where am I stuck.... ?

Dear Sangatji....some light please.

Best regards

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Amarpal · #2 (**permalink**) 29-Apr-2009, 10:21 AM

Dear akal_jsingh Ji,

I am not answering your mail following the contours of your post, but in my own way. I am going to share with you my response to your basic question of your post.

‘Is There Any 'Choice' in God's Creation?

Creation has choices, plenty of them. ‘The Sat’ has not fixed us in a fixed frozen matrix. We are the instrument of ‘The Sat’, the guardians of the creation of ‘The Sat’.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24746

‘The Sat’ has given us all the sense organs - Gyanendriyas, the mental faculties in the functioning brain and the organs to act - Karmendriyas. What else is needed, the application of all these to advance the will of ‘The Sat’.

What is the will of ‘The Sat’ – it is perpetual evolution is all the fields that in the creation of ‘The Sat’. The proof is right in front of you. From the insentient material grew the primitive life form, from these primitive life form grew plant and animal kingdoms. Humans evolved progressively to meet the challenges that life made them face, from an animal walking on four limbs we evolved to walk on two limbs. After the need of physical form were perfected humans developed the capabilities of the brain, we all know that the frontal cortex of the brain is relatively recent addition to brain. The process of development and evolution is continuing and will continue in future also.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24746

Nothing of this sort would have happened unless ‘The Sat’ wanted it to be so. Development and evolution implies protection and preservation of what is already achieved. Putting these together the will of ‘The Sat’ is protection, preservation, evolution and development.

We humans being on the top of entities constituting the creation of ‘The Sat’ have all the freedom to select among the options available, including the option of not participating in the will of ‘The Sat’. You and I have absolute freedom of choice in the creation of ‘The Sat’; sky is the limit for you and me. This is so because we know that ‘The Sat’ is within us and our body is only an instrument of ‘The Sat’. What we do, ‘The Sat’ guides us; it never interferes with our freedom to chose and act. We invite interference through our Karmas, and thus get limited.

Through thoughts we are connected to ‘The Sat’ and thus to the entire creation. When we understand the mechanics of this linkage then we acquire the capability to draw from the entire resources of the creation i.e. from ‘The Sat.

It is my considered view and now a conviction that there is no limit to our mental capabilities. The limitations come from our physical capabilities and interferences come from our Karmas.

Our freedom to choose is unlimited. But because of being limited physically we cannot select all the option at one time or in one life. Because the Karmic cycle impacts on us and causes difficulties, we cannot achieve the results instantaneously, it takes time.

With this I close the post.

With love and respect for all.

Amarpal Singh

Huck_Finn · #3 (**permalink**) 29-Apr-2009, 12:47 PM

Amarpal Singh ji
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24746

beautiful and very inspiring post !

Amarpal · #4 (**permalink**) 29-Apr-2009, 21:37 PM

amarsanghera Ji,

Thank you for your kind observation. I pary that 'The Sat' sustains me so that i remain useful to Sangat.

With love and redards

Amarpal Singh

Tejwant Singh · #5 (**permalink**) 29-Apr-2009, 22:44 PM

Amarpal ji

Guru Fateh.

Well said. Simple, concise and to the point.

Thank you

Tejwant Singh

Tejwant Singh · #6 (**permalink**) 29-Apr-2009, 23:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by akal_jsingh

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Consider the following: There are two sets of people.

Set 1 = those trying to reach God (whichever faith, through whichever ways, and good ways + very strictly speaking very good Sikhs which we would call Gurmukhs).

The other set (set 2) being people either ignorant of the need to pursue God or having willingly decided to lead a non-pursuit of God existence.

The first set.. will in our religion act acc. to Sikhi acc. as per the individual's realisation/ perception.

The 2nd set, will.. today or tomorrow... this birth or the next... by love or by troubles... will.. feel a need.. and thereby slowly and slowly a... movement towards God.

SO... both sets move towards God. Set 1 moving better.

The way of Set 1 is also a tough way. Its not a straight sailing. 'Sikhi Waalon Neeki, Khandeon Teekhi' - Guru Amardas.

My ques: Where in this whole equation is the sould being asked if it wants to play this game / or give this examination = God = destination... ?

Someone like me says... I never wanted to play it.. ?

What am I doing here... ? Where am I stuck.... ?

Dear Sangatji....some light please.

Best regards

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

akal_j Singh ji,

Guru fateh.

Interesting thinking.

Allow me to take it to another angle. There are many more sets of people than just two but let us just discuss the two you have mentioned.

Quote:

Set 1 = those trying to reach God (whichever faith, through whichever ways, and good ways + very strictly speaking very good Sikhs which we would call Gurmukhs).

By saying, " those trying to reach God", I presume you mean those who are trying to breed goodness within so they can share it with others. Goodness bred within is a light- Gyan- that does not have a spigot that one can open or shut at will. It just flows and flows. The more it flows the more it is produced within, kinetically.

For this to happen we need a catalyst within which can transform this energy towards this positive direction.

As we read in Mool Manter that Ik Ong Kaar is Ajuni Sahibung- Creative Energy unlike a deity as in almost all other religions. Because Ik Ong Kaar is Creative Energy, Sikhi was founded as the Idea based way of life rather than personality based dogmatic relgions which created their own rules and fenced themselves behind these dogmatic walls using their subjective rules as the bricks and mortar. That is the reason all these personality based dogmatic religions had to evolved in the life span of the founder, unlike Sikhi.

It took this Sikhi Idea way of life 200 some years to evolve. When idea of breeding goodness within is expanded like this then the personalities, in this case our Gurus, play part as mere instruments in this Orchestra of Ik Ong Kaar. The proof of this is in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji where Gurbani is compiled by people from many walks of life, with different social status and castes, even different relgions. That is why Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is a very unique Symphony. This Symphony written in a poetic and musical manner moves us from the within. Music ( which unfortunately is forbidden in the radical minded Islamists like Taliban), breaks our self constructed walls. Music frees our self encaged birds within. Music makes us burst out of our own bubbles and shatters our own cocoons. In a nutshell, music gives us freedom.

Now let us talk about the lyrics- Gurbani- this music is based on. After having freed from our own shackles through this musical Gurbani, it then inspires, motivates, encourages us to be honest and truthful, incidentally the second word in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji- SatNam.

So once we have realised this then we do not have to " try to reach God", We are already dwelling in this " Magical Kingdom" where the journey itself becomes the destination.

Quote:

The 2nd set, will.. today or tomorrow... this birth or the next... by love or by troubles... will.. feel a need.. and thereby slowly and slowly a... movement towards God

.

People in the first set become magnets which naturally attract people of all other sets. Our history is the proof. That is why people from all different sets flocked towards our Gurus.

In closing, I would just like to say that if we use the tools given to us by our Gurus in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, then we can enlarge this set of ours, so all become capable of breeding goodness within.

Tejwant Singh

wizesikh · #7 (**permalink**) 30-Apr-2009, 04:23 AM

We all live in god and god lives in us, but sect 1 discovers god and sect 2 either discovers god or never discovers him in all eternity. Japji Sahib further clarifies it.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24746
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24746

God has given you not one choice but hundreds and thousands and millions of choices.
and on top of that he has given you the choice to pick the choice that you wish.
Lines in Japji sahib make it clear; infinit run away from god, infinit run towards god, infinit remain confused, infinit remain in silent..infinit remain in ignorance, infinit see him everyday.. infinit die while trying to reach him.. deda deh ledhe thak pa, juga jugantar khai kha, he gives us choices over and over and over again.

The question is not wheather there is a choice or not, the question is which choice and path would do you feel you can stick to for eternity. hukmi hukam chul rahea nanak vigsai veparva.

Amarpal · #8 (**permalink**) 30-Apr-2009, 09:41 AM

Thank you Tejwant Ji,
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24746

With love and respect

Amarpal Singh

Astroboy · #9 (**permalink**) 30-Apr-2009, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by akal_jsingh

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Consider the following: There are two sets of people.

Set 1 = those trying to reach God (whichever faith, through whichever ways, and good ways + very strictly speaking very good Sikhs which we would call Gurmukhs).

The other set (set 2) being people either ignorant of the need to pursue God or having willingly decided to lead a non-pursuit of God existence.

The first set.. will in our religion act acc. to Sikhi acc. as per the individual's realisation/ perception.

The 2nd set, will.. today or tomorrow... this birth or the next... by love or by troubles... will.. feel a need.. and thereby slowly and slowly a... movement towards God.

SO... both sets move towards God. Set 1 moving better.

The way of Set 1 is also a tough way. Its not a straight sailing. 'Sikhi Waalon Neeki, Khandeon Teekhi' - Guru Amardas.

My ques: Where in this whole equation is the sould being asked if it wants to play this game / or give this examination = God = destination... ?

Someone like me says... I never wanted to play it.. ?

What am I doing here... ? Where am I stuck.... ?

Dear Sangatji....some light please.

Best regards

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

ਮਾਟੀ ਕੋ ਪੁਤਰਾ ਕੈਸੇ ਨਚਤੁ ਹੈ ॥
माटी को पुतरा कैसे नचतु है ॥
Mātī ko puṯrā kaise nacẖaṯ hai.
How does the puppet of clay dance?

ਦੇਖੈ ਦੇਖੈ ਸੁਨੈ ਬੋਲੈ ਦਉਰਿਓ ਫਿਰਤੁ ਹੈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
देखै देखै सुनै बोलै दउरिओ फिरतु है ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Ḏekẖai ḏekẖai sunai bolai ḏa▫ori▫o firaṯ hai. ||1|| rahā▫o.
He looks and listens, hears and speaks, and runs around. ||1||Pause||

ਜਬ ਕਛੁ ਪਾਵੈ ਤਬ ਗਰਬੁ ਕਰਤੁ ਹੈ ॥
जब कछु पावै तब गरबु करतु है ॥
Jab kacẖẖ pāvai ṯab garab karaṯ hai.
When he acquires something, he is inflated with ego.

ਮਾਇਆ ਗਈ ਤਬ ਰੋਵਨੁ ਲਗਤੁ ਹੈ ॥੧॥
माइआ गई तब रोवनु लगतु है ॥१॥
Mā▫i▫ā ga▫ī ṯab rovan lagaṯ hai. ||1||
But when his wealth is gone, then he cries and bewails. ||1||

ਮਨ ਬਚ ਕ੍ਰਮ ਰਸ ਕਸਹਿ ਲੁਭਾਨਾ ॥
मन बच क्रम रस कसहि लुभाना ॥
Man bacẖ karam ras kasėh lubẖānā.
In thought, word and deed, he is attached to the sweet and tangy flavors.

ਬਿਨਸਿ ਗਇਆ ਜਾਇ ਕਹੂੰ ਸਮਾਨਾ ॥੨॥
बिनसि गइआ जाइ कहूं समाना ॥२॥
Binas ga▫i▫ā jā▫e kahū▫aŉ samānā. ||2||
When he dies, no one knows where he has gone. ||2||

ਕਹਿ ਰਵਿਦਾਸ ਬਾਜੀ ਜਗੁ ਭਾਈ ॥
कहि रविदास बाजी जगु भाई ॥
Kahi Raviḏās bājī jag bẖā▫ī.
Says Ravi Daas, the world is just a dramatic play, O Siblings of Destiny.

ਬਾਜੀਗਰ ਸਉ ਮਹਿ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਬਨਿ ਆਈ ॥੩॥੬॥
बाजीगर सउ मोहि प्रीति बनि आई ॥३॥६॥
Bājīgar sa▫o mohi parīṯ ban ā▫ī. ||3||6||
I have enshrined love for the Lord, the star of the show. ||3||6||

Ang 487