Why Does Lord require this.

Sikh80 · #1 (**permalink**) 13-Jan-2008, 09:36 AM

auTu PrIdw aujU swij subh invwj gujwir ] (1381-13, slok, syK PrId jI)
Rise up, Fareed, and cleanse yourself; chant your morning prayer.
jo isru sWeI nw invY so isru kip auqwir ]71] (1381-13, slok, syK PrId jI)
The head which does not bow to the Lord - chop off and remove that head. ||71||
jo isru sweI nw invY so isru kIjY kWie ] (1381-14, slok, syK PrId jI)
That head which does not bow to the Lord - what is to be done with that head?
kuMny hyiT jlweIAY bwlx sMdY Qwie ]72] (1381-14, slok, syK PrId jI)
Put it in the fireplace, instead of firewood. ||72||
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/19207-why-does-lord-require-this.html
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The fact of the matter is that we have come here for he wanted.We were helpless when we took birth. WE live in pain and anguish till we live and ....we die, we are still help less. He is the architect of my destiny and He has produced me and made me that I am. WE act as per HIS will and wishes. Our each action is governed by the will Of super-consciousness. If one reads Gurbani; we shall be classified as ' the poor creature' who is not capable of doing anything.

Even devotional worship to HIM is gifted by HIM.
If we have forgotten HIM ,it is on account of Maya /illusion/ sense organs.Where is the fault; that Bhagat Fareed ji is to speak like this.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=19207
I never wanted to come here.He made me come here and then why should I bow to him at all.Because of food i eat or the so called beautiful things that I see and much more...but I never want ....why should the creator be unhappy with me...I think the line should be applicable to Fareed ji and not to me....
what do you think?.please support it with gurbani...

For Moderators please.
[ I could not format the text better than this.I think we require more fonts and sizes for better presentation of the english text esp. when it is side by side of the gurmukhi Text.]

Archived_Member1 · #2 (**permalink**) 13-Jan-2008, 10:55 AM

when reading Fareed ji's bani, be sure to remember that he was a Muslim, and so was writing from a Muslim perspective.

Sikh80 · #3 (**permalink**) 13-Jan-2008, 11:09 AM

But then Fareed's Bani is registered in GRanth Sahib and it shall be treated as the Bani Of Nirankaar. No?

Archived_Member1 · #4 (**permalink**) 13-Jan-2008, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sikh80

But then Fareed's Bani is registered in GRanth Sahib and it shall be treated as the Bani Of Nirankaar. No?

of course, i never suggested otherwise. but sometimes it helps to understand the context from which the writer is coming.

Sikh80 · #5 (**permalink**) 13-Jan-2008, 11:22 AM

It is ok. But the basic answer to the question remains to be answered.It may look simple but it is not so.No.

Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=19207
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=19207
Sometimes, I think that there cannot be any answer at all as HE willed so we sprouted from no where and will go wherever HE wills us to go and we shall sprout again..and it goes on.....NO.

Archived_Member1 · #6 (**permalink**) 13-Jan-2008, 21:36 PM

[quote=Sikh80;68542]auTu PrIdw aujU swij subh invwj gujwir ] (1381-13, slok, syK PrId jI)
Rise up, Fareed, and cleanse yourself; chant your morning prayer.
jo isru sWeI nw invY so isru kip auqwir ]71] (1381-13, slok, syK PrId jI)
The head which does not bow to the Lord - chop off and remove that head. ||71||
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=19207
jo isru sweI nw invY so isru kIjY kWie ] (1381-14, slok, syK PrId jI)
That head which does not bow to the Lord - what is to be done with that head?
kuMny hyiT jlweIAY bwlx sMdY Qwie ]72] (1381-14, slok, syK PrId jI)
Put it in the fireplace, instead of firewood. ||72||
**********************************************

The fact of the matter is that we have come here for he wanted.We were helpless when we took birth. WE live in pain and anguish till we live and ....we die, we are still help less. He is the architect of my destiny and He has produced me and made me that I am. WE act as per HIS will and wishes. Our each action is governed by the will Of super-consciousness. If one reads Gurbani; we shall be classified as ' the poor creature' who is not capable of doing anything.

Even devotional worship to HIM is gifted by HIM.
If we have forgotten HIM ,it is on account of Maya /illusion/ sense organs.Where is the fault; that Bhagat Fareed ji is to speak like this.
I never wanted to come here.He made me come here and then why should I bow to him at all.Because of food i eat or the so called beautiful things that I see and much more...but I never want ....why should the creator be unhappy with me...I think the line should be applicable to Fareed ji and not to me....
what do you think?.please support it with gurbani...

ok, first, Fareed ji is not saying that God should chop off the head of everyone, he's saying that God should chop off Fareed ji's head if Fareed ji doesn't bow.

Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=19207
second, do you understand the concept of karam (karma)? if you're on a street, and at one end is a Gurdwara, and the other end is a brothel, who chooses where you go? does God make that choice for you? no, this is your decision, and you will see the results of your decision later in life.

yes, everything is god's will. but we have a choice how we act on that will.

Sikh80 · #7 (**permalink**) 13-Jan-2008, 21:48 PM

Thanks for clarifying that it is Fareed's bani. But then what should be applicable to Fareed, Fareed would have wanted should be applicable to ordinary human being as well.

Regarding Free will, I do not think we have. Which ever way one go it is pre-destined. I fail to answer. May be God brought me to the crossing of gurudwara or to indulge in that you say as hedonism. I cannot say anyone can say with 100 percent accuracy where one should move. But speaking generally, one should prefer Gurudwara.

Karma. well it is not fully explained .It has the biggest lacuna that there is no specific fruit attached to the actions. The theory is incomplete both at macro and micro level.
regards

Let us see what we are supposed to be as a sikh. Sikh is to be a nice human being from all angles. He has to be a good man/son/husband/father/employee and anything else that one has to for leading this life and act without expecting any fruits of the actions.[Gyani Maskeen ji] The fructification Of our efforts is not stated anywhere and to this effect the theory Of karma is incomplete and will remain so. It is a great deterrent for us.it is the way I see. Had Guru sahibaan secified that the result Of the Karmas will be reflected after 30 yeas or 40 years or the things should have been that specific things would have been easier.As it is not so we have to live with whatever we have.

Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=19207
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=19207
Next come the spiritual part Of the sikh. Sikh has to be in constant meditation of the almighty. Be it amritvella or any other time. It shall make our minds occupied and we shall have little time to do something that is not as per the conscience. I think if we do not think that is bad we shall never do it.This is the philosphy of simran /or meditating on continued basis. WE shall be sub duing our mind and also be in HIS meditation. We can achieve this by visiting Gurudwara.
It is the sikhi ,that I have understood.

I have posted 3 posts but both have been clubbed with in a single post.Kindly do not mind my english.It is very colorful. But please tell what is this automated double post.I noted it yesterday.

Archived_Member1 · #8 (**permalink**) 14-Jan-2008, 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sikh80

Regarding Free will, I do not think we have. Which ever way one go it is pre-destined. I fail to answer. May be God brought me to the crossing of gurudwara or to indulge in that you say as hedonism. I cannot say anyone can say with 100 percent accuracy where one should move. But speaking generally, one should prefer Gurudwara.

Karma. well it is not fully explained .It has the biggest lacuna that there is no specific fruit attached to the actions. The theory is incomplete both at macro and micro level.
regards

karma is fully explained in one simple line. ape bij ape hi khah. as you sow, so shall you reap. to blame god for your bad actions is a cop out. we must take responsibility for our actions, and we will suffer the consequences if we choose badly.

yes, everything is God's will. but we live in the world of maya, illusion, and so we have the illusion of free will. we must make our own decisions. we should base them on what we understand of God's Hukam, but we can't sit around waiting for God to make up our mind for us.

Huck_Finn · #9 (**permalink**) 14-Jan-2008, 06:25 AM

God wills all of you to shut up !!