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How could Guru Nanak visit Mecca if he wasn't a Muslim?

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 08-Nov-2007, 07:52 AM
kds1980's Avatar kds1980 kds1980 is offline
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How could Guru Nanak visit Mecca if he wasn't a Muslim?

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How could Guru Nanak visit Mecca if he wasn't a Muslim? | Sikhism101.com | UniversalFaith.net

How could Guru Nanak visit Mecca if he wasn't a Muslim?

The assertion that non-Muslims cannot infiltrate Mecca is false. The city of Mecca was not developed during the time of the Guru. It was a vast desert land and people could commute freely unlike now. Only until recently Saudi Arabia has become rich with the oil money and developed as a result.

Guru Nanak Sahib Ji was neither the first nor the last non-Muslim to visit or infiltrate Mecca. The most famous incident of a non-Muslim visiting Mecca was the visit by the British explorer Sir Richard Burton in 1853. Burton disguised himself as an Afghani Muslim to visit and write Personal Narrative of a Pilgrimage to Al Madinah and Mecca. Therefore, how can it be impossible for Guru Nanak Sahib Ji, who is ‘Akaal Roop’, the embodiment of the Divine Light of God, to visit Mecca? The who land belongs to God, so how can the Living Image of God, Guru Nanak Sahib Ji be stopped traveling anywhere in the world. God or God’s power cannot be limited.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/17921-how-could-guru-nanak-visit-mecca.html

Guru sahib dressed as a Fakeer, holy man, which meant a chola of khuddar (rough low grade material) and a pair of wooden sandals with his companion Baba Mardana Ji, who was from a Muslim background, infiltrated the city of Mecca.

ਬਾਬਾ ਫਿਰ ਮੱਕੇ ਗਯਾ ਨੀਲ ਬਸਤ੍ਰ ਧਾਰੇ ਬਨਵਾਰੀ ॥
ਆਸਾ ਹੱਥ ਕਿਤਾਬ ਕੱਛ ਕੂਜਾ ਬਾਂਗ ਮੁਸੱਲਾ ਧਾਰੀ ॥
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=17921
“Donning blue attire then Baba Nanak went to Mecca. He held staff in his hand, pressed a book under his arm, caught hold of a metal pot and mattress.”
(Vaar 1, Pauree 32 – Bhai Gurdaas Ji)

Dress in Sikhi and in Guru Nanak Sahib Ji’s own words, carries no divinity or spiritual significance. He dressed as a Fakeer so as not to be thought a novice and thus excluded from religious discussions of the Muslims Fakeers of the time. Moreover wearing a Fakeer’s dress does not necessarily make one Muslim.

Only in more recent history has the security of Mecca and Medina been stepped up. However, even then non-Muslims are allowed to enter the city of Mecca as long as they have business there. In the past, several non-Muslims journalists and camera crew have been allowed in to create documentaries, as well as VIPs. For example, Mecca is currently in redevelopment; project under taken by architecture firm based in North America. Non-Muslim Architects ands engineers have been in Mecca and will continue until 2012. However that should not be confused with the existing rule in place that forbids non-Muslims from entering the area as others mentioned.

Muslims seeking to twist history and reality for their own agenda and world-view have totally manipulated the reason why Guru Nanak Sahib Ji visited Mecca. Muslims go to Mecca to pay their homage and worship God (this pilgrimage is called Hajj in the Islamic faith), but this was not the purpose of the Guru to go there. Guru Sahib says:

ਹਜ ਕਾਬੈ ਜਾਉ ਨ ਤੀਰਥ ਪੂਜਾ ॥ ਏਕੋ ਸੇਵੀ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਦੂਜਾ ॥੨॥
ਪੂਜਾ ਕਰਉ ਨ ਨਿਵਾਜ ਗੁਜਾਰਉ ॥ ਏਕ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ਲੇ ਰਿਦੈ ਨਮਸਕਾਰਉ ॥੩॥
"I do not make pilgrimages to Mecca, nor do I worship at Hindu sacred shrines. I serve the One Lord, and not any other. ||2|| I do not perform Hindu worship services, nor do I offer the Muslim prayers. I have taken the One Formless Lord into my heart; I humbly worship Him there. ||3||”
(Ang 1136)

This shows that Guru Sahib did not visit Mecca to worship Allah. Instead, He went for different reasons. Muslims believe that God is in the west and only likes Muslims. Guru Sahib visited Mecca to clear their doubts and to show them the right path. He went to preach oneness of God who does not reside only in the west. Guru Sahib said there are infinite heavens, hells and solar systems. There is no end to God or His creation.

Guru Nanak Sahib Ji is recorded to have visited Mecca not the Kaa’ba. The one thing clear from the historical evidence is that he visited Mecca with his companion, Baba Mardana Ji, who was from a Muslim background. They stayed somewhere probably in a nearby village or town. Pilgrims do not stay in the Kaa’ba. They stay outside the holy shrine area in villages, towns or tents. It is also clear from the evidence that Guru Sahib is recorded as having slept with his feet ‘towards’ the Kaa’ba. If Guru Sahib were sleeping inside or nearby the Kaa’ba (which is not possible when millions visit it), there would not have been the account that we read today.

There is no mention anywhere that he observed ihram, did twaf, ran between Safwa and Marwa or sacrificed an animal. For pilgrimage all these rituals are absolutely essential. As for saying Namaz, there is no evidence that he followed an Imam or uttered Quranic verses anywhere. Furthermore, Guru Sahib no where wrote La Allah Illilah Mohammed Rasul Allah. If one still thinks that Guru Nanak Sahib Ji was a Muslim, then would you accept such pretenders as Muslims who conceal their faith? Guru Sahib never stated that he was a Muslim, instead he did the opposite.

ਨਾ ਹਮ ਹਿੰਦੂ ਨ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਨ ॥ ਅਲਹ ਰਾਮ ਕੇ ਪਿੰਡੁ ਪਰਾਨ ॥੪॥
“I am not a Hindu, nor am I a Muslim. My body and breath of life belong to Allah - to Raam - the God of both. ||4||”
(Ang 1136)




 
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 08-Nov-2007, 20:16 PM
Narayanjot Kaur's Avatar Narayanjot Kaur Narayanjot Kaur is offline
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Re: How could Guru Nanak visit Mecca if he wasn't a Muslim?

The muslim world of Nanaak's time (15th Century) was also very different from today. Traveling from one region to another was common. Then the muslim world was a very open place, and if you were a citizen of one region it was very easy to enter another -- in large part because the idea of nationhood was not really part of the world view. You came from a city-state but were a citizen of the mulsim world.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=17921
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=17921

Mecca, which is in Saudi Arabia today, was under the protection of a sheik. There was no Saudi Arabia with a customs office to check your passport. In fact all of Saudi was a collection of principalities each governed by a ruling family. An entirely different place.
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Old 08-Nov-2007, 20:36 PM
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Re: How could Guru Nanak visit Mecca if he wasn't a Muslim?

Do sikhs believe in Allah?
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Old 08-Nov-2007, 20:37 PM
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Re: How could Guru Nanak visit Mecca if he wasn't a Muslim?

isnt Allah and arbic word, which has no singular, not masculine or femanine, and no plural or dual, it is unique?
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Old 09-Nov-2007, 06:32 AM
kds1980's Avatar kds1980 kds1980 is offline
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Re: How could Guru Nanak visit Mecca if he wasn't a Muslim?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kay View Post
Do sikhs believe in Allah?
In sikhism every word which describe god whether it is allah of muslim or raam of hindu is acceptable.It does not mean that we beleive in muslim god allah or hindu god raam
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Old 09-Nov-2007, 14:38 PM
Narayanjot Kaur's Avatar Narayanjot Kaur Narayanjot Kaur is offline
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Re: How could Guru Nanak visit Mecca if he wasn't a Muslim?

Whoever posted the link below kds ji's last comment -- A History of the Sikhs Volume 1 -- did a great service to the forum and on behalf of everyone who has been tangling with so many futile conversations that compare/contrast Waheguru and Sikhi to Allah and Islam. (Now removed and the link I refered to appears to be a link to changing series of books about Sikhism)

Read it -- you will never be the same person you were before you read it. You will GET the reasons why Sikhism is neither inferior to Islam nor is it a little brother of Islam or any other Faith.

You will, if you have a human heart, be chilled by horror by some of what you read, and at the same time thankful to God for the gift of Nanaak and his Bani.

Macauliffe, the author, lived in India during the raj. He was a highly placed official of the British monarchy. He converted to Sikhism, and wrote his history of the Sikhs using venerated historical documents and consultations with notable Sikh scholars of the time. Please do not confuse him with McLeod. This sometimes happens.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=17921
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=17921


EDITED BY ME 5 MINUTES LATER. THE LINK TO HISTORY OF THE SIKHS WAS REPLACED. SO I WILL POST THE LINK TO MACAULIFFE'S VOLUME HERE.

The Sikh Religion Vol. 1 Index
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Old 09-Nov-2007, 21:47 PM
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Re: How could Guru Nanak visit Mecca if he wasn't a Muslim?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kay View Post
isnt Allah and arbic word, which has no singular, not masculine or femanine, and no plural or dual, it is unique?

the Guru Granth Sahib contains words from many languages... punjabi, sanskrit, persian, arabic...

we call God by many names. God is God. whether you say Waheguru, Allah, Raam, JHWY... none of that matters. God is universal, for everyone. he's not confined to any one faith or name.

and yes, all of those attributes you stated do apply to God.
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Old 10-Nov-2007, 12:01 PM
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Re: How could Guru Nanak visit Mecca if he wasn't a Muslim?

Just a food for thought:

Gurbani says - Aval Allah noor upaya kudrat ke sab bandey

Also look at the attached pic, and guess what the symbol in white strip is!
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Old 10-Nov-2007, 17:00 PM
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Re: How could Guru Nanak visit Mecca if he wasn't a Muslim?

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Arvid jee, are you serious about thew iran flag?

Anyway, I agree with Kelly Kaur... I mean what kind of question is Do you beleive in Allah?

How ignorant...there is only one god...and we believe you can not put a name on god..as god as no limits..and is everywhere...and everything...
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=17921

But how can you ask a question like ' Do you believe in allah? Why cant you ask...Do you beleive in god?.. There is no difference..its all the same....there is but one god..and oen god only..who is truth...and everywhere..universal...thinking to have seperate imaginery gods is just foolishness...no offence
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