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How could Guru Nanak visit Mecca if he wasn't a Muslim?

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by kds1980, Nov 8, 2007.

  1. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    How could Guru Nanak visit Mecca if he wasn't a Muslim? | Sikhism101.com | UniversalFaith.net

    How could Guru Nanak visit Mecca if he wasn't a Muslim?

    The assertion that non-Muslims cannot infiltrate Mecca is false. The city of Mecca was not developed during the time of the Guru. It was a vast desert land and people could commute freely unlike now. Only until recently Saudi Arabia has become rich with the oil money and developed as a result.

    Guru Nanak Sahib Ji was neither the first nor the last non-Muslim to visit or infiltrate Mecca. The most famous incident of a non-Muslim visiting Mecca was the visit by the British explorer Sir Richard Burton in 1853. Burton disguised himself as an Afghani Muslim to visit and write Personal Narrative of a Pilgrimage to Al Madinah and Mecca. Therefore, how can it be impossible for Guru Nanak Sahib Ji, who is ‘Akaal Roop’, the embodiment of the Divine Light of God, to visit Mecca? The who land belongs to God, so how can the Living Image of God, Guru Nanak Sahib Ji be stopped traveling anywhere in the world. God or God’s power cannot be limited.

    Guru sahib dressed as a Fakeer, holy man, which meant a chola of khuddar (rough low grade material) and a pair of wooden sandals with his companion Baba Mardana Ji, who was from a Muslim background, infiltrated the city of Mecca.

    ਬਾਬਾ ਫਿਰ ਮੱਕੇ ਗਯਾ ਨੀਲ ਬਸਤ੍ਰ ਧਾਰੇ ਬਨਵਾਰੀ ॥
    ਆਸਾ ਹੱਥ ਕਿਤਾਬ ਕੱਛ ਕੂਜਾ ਬਾਂਗ ਮੁਸੱਲਾ ਧਾਰੀ ॥
    “Donning blue attire then Baba Nanak went to Mecca. He held staff in his hand, pressed a book under his arm, caught hold of a metal pot and mattress.”
    (Vaar 1, Pauree 32 – Bhai Gurdaas Ji)

    Dress in Sikhi and in Guru Nanak Sahib Ji’s own words, carries no divinity or spiritual significance. He dressed as a Fakeer so as not to be thought a novice and thus excluded from religious discussions of the Muslims Fakeers of the time. Moreover wearing a Fakeer’s dress does not necessarily make one Muslim.

    Only in more recent history has the security of Mecca and Medina been stepped up. However, even then non-Muslims are allowed to enter the city of Mecca as long as they have business there. In the past, several non-Muslims journalists and camera crew have been allowed in to create documentaries, as well as VIPs. For example, Mecca is currently in redevelopment; project under taken by architecture firm based in North America. Non-Muslim Architects ands engineers have been in Mecca and will continue until 2012. However that should not be confused with the existing rule in place that forbids non-Muslims from entering the area as others mentioned.

    Muslims seeking to twist history and reality for their own agenda and world-view have totally manipulated the reason why Guru Nanak Sahib Ji visited Mecca. Muslims go to Mecca to pay their homage and worship God (this pilgrimage is called Hajj in the Islamic faith), but this was not the purpose of the Guru to go there. Guru Sahib says:

    ਹਜ ਕਾਬੈ ਜਾਉ ਨ ਤੀਰਥ ਪੂਜਾ ॥ ਏਕੋ ਸੇਵੀ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਦੂਜਾ ॥੨॥
    ਪੂਜਾ ਕਰਉ ਨ ਨਿਵਾਜ ਗੁਜਾਰਉ ॥ ਏਕ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ਲੇ ਰਿਦੈ ਨਮਸਕਾਰਉ ॥੩॥
    "I do not make pilgrimages to Mecca, nor do I worship at Hindu sacred shrines. I serve the One Lord, and not any other. ||2|| I do not perform Hindu worship services, nor do I offer the Muslim prayers. I have taken the One Formless Lord into my heart; I humbly worship Him there. ||3||”
    (Ang 1136)

    This shows that Guru Sahib did not visit Mecca to worship Allah. Instead, He went for different reasons. Muslims believe that God is in the west and only likes Muslims. Guru Sahib visited Mecca to clear their doubts and to show them the right path. He went to preach oneness of God who does not reside only in the west. Guru Sahib said there are infinite heavens, hells and solar systems. There is no end to God or His creation.

    Guru Nanak Sahib Ji is recorded to have visited Mecca not the Kaa’ba. The one thing clear from the historical evidence is that he visited Mecca with his companion, Baba Mardana Ji, who was from a Muslim background. They stayed somewhere probably in a nearby village or town. Pilgrims do not stay in the Kaa’ba. They stay outside the holy shrine area in villages, towns or tents. It is also clear from the evidence that Guru Sahib is recorded as having slept with his feet ‘towards’ the Kaa’ba. If Guru Sahib were sleeping inside or nearby the Kaa’ba (which is not possible when millions visit it), there would not have been the account that we read today.

    There is no mention anywhere that he observed ihram, did twaf, ran between Safwa and Marwa or sacrificed an animal. For pilgrimage all these rituals are absolutely essential. As for saying Namaz, there is no evidence that he followed an Imam or uttered Quranic verses anywhere. Furthermore, Guru Sahib no where wrote La Allah Illilah Mohammed Rasul Allah. If one still thinks that Guru Nanak Sahib Ji was a Muslim, then would you accept such pretenders as Muslims who conceal their faith? Guru Sahib never stated that he was a Muslim, instead he did the opposite.

    ਨਾ ਹਮ ਹਿੰਦੂ ਨ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਨ ॥ ਅਲਹ ਰਾਮ ਕੇ ਪਿੰਡੁ ਪਰਾਨ ॥੪॥
    “I am not a Hindu, nor am I a Muslim. My body and breath of life belong to Allah - to Raam - the God of both. ||4||”
    (Ang 1136)
     
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  3. spnadmin

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    The muslim world of Nanaak's time (15th Century) was also very different from today. Traveling from one region to another was common. Then the muslim world was a very open place, and if you were a citizen of one region it was very easy to enter another -- in large part because the idea of nationhood was not really part of the world view. You came from a city-state but were a citizen of the mulsim world.

    Mecca, which is in Saudi Arabia today, was under the protection of a sheik. There was no Saudi Arabia with a customs office to check your passport. In fact all of Saudi was a collection of principalities each governed by a ruling family. An entirely different place.
     
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  4. kay

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    Do sikhs believe in Allah?
     
  5. kay

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    isnt Allah and arbic word, which has no singular, not masculine or femanine, and no plural or dual, it is unique?
     
  6. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    In sikhism every word which describe god whether it is allah of muslim or raam of hindu is acceptable.It does not mean that we beleive in muslim god allah or hindu god raam
     
  7. spnadmin

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    Whoever posted the link below kds ji's last comment -- A History of the Sikhs Volume 1 -- did a great service to the forum and on behalf of everyone who has been tangling with so many futile conversations that compare/contrast Waheguru and Sikhi to Allah and Islam. (Now removed and the link I refered to appears to be a link to changing series of books about Sikhism)

    Read it -- you will never be the same person you were before you read it. You will GET the reasons why Sikhism is neither inferior to Islam nor is it a little brother of Islam or any other Faith.

    You will, if you have a human heart, be chilled by horror by some of what you read, and at the same time thankful to God for the gift of Nanaak and his Bani.

    Macauliffe, the author, lived in India during the raj. He was a highly placed official of the British monarchy. He converted to Sikhism, and wrote his history of the Sikhs using venerated historical documents and consultations with notable Sikh scholars of the time. Please do not confuse him with McLeod. This sometimes happens.


    EDITED BY ME 5 MINUTES LATER. THE LINK TO HISTORY OF THE SIKHS WAS REPLACED. SO I WILL POST THE LINK TO MACAULIFFE'S VOLUME HERE.

    The Sikh Religion Vol. 1 Index
     
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  8. Archived_Member1

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    the Guru Granth Sahib contains words from many languages... punjabi, sanskrit, persian, arabic...

    we call God by many names. God is God. whether you say Waheguru, Allah, Raam, JHWY... none of that matters. God is universal, for everyone. he's not confined to any one faith or name.

    and yes, all of those attributes you stated do apply to God. :)
     
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  9. Arvind

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    Just a food for thought:

    Gurbani says - Aval Allah noor upaya kudrat ke sab bandey

    Also look at the attached pic, and guess what the symbol in white strip is!
     
  10. Anoop

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    Arvid jee, are you serious about thew iran flag?

    Anyway, I agree with Kelly Kaur... I mean what kind of question is Do you beleive in Allah?

    How ignorant...there is only one god...and we believe you can not put a name on god..as god as no limits..and is everywhere...and everything...

    But how can you ask a question like ' Do you believe in allah? Why cant you ask...Do you beleive in god?.. There is no difference..its all the same....there is but one god..and oen god only..who is truth...and everywhere..universal...thinking to have seperate imaginery gods is just foolishness...no offence
     
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  11. Archived_Member1

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    from wikipedia:

    The coat of arms of Iran since the 1979Iranian Revolution features a stylized Arabic script of the word Allah ("God") and also "La ilaha ill Allah" (There is no God other than Allah).
    The logo consists of four crescents and a sword. The four crescents are meant to stand for the word Allah, and at the same time, an overlaid "La ilaha illa Allah" (There is no God but Allah) as explained in detail in ISIRI 1. The five parts of the emblem symbolize the Principles of the Religion. Above the sword is a shadda: in Arabic script, this is used to double a letter, here it doubles the strength of the sword. The shape of the emblem is chosen to resemble a tulip, for the memory of the people who died for Iran: it is an ancient belief in Iran, dating back to mythology, that if a young soldier dies patriotically a red tulip will grow on his grave. In recent years it is considered as the symbol of martyrdom.

    so no, it's not a khanda. it does include a sword, but so do the flags of many of the world's countries. :)
     
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  12. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    Kelly ji

    thanks for the information on that symbol.
     
  13. spnadmin

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    I second kds1980.
     
  14. Verma1

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    Kds1980, thanks for your post. The purpose of Guru Nanak Dev Ji going to muslim places was to show that there is no difference about what your background is because muslims cause so much trouble with religion. His aim was to create peace in the region, he never converted and WAS NEVER a muslim, instead ghe was the opposite. He was born into a Hindu family, kept his original name, married a Hindu lady, had children who had Hindu names aswell.

    Muslims that claim Guru Nanak was muslim are insulted Him and the religion and saying this to cause trouble with Hindus and Sikhs and for their own worldly agenda. It is one group in particular who make false claims and pick out verses The Granth, misquoting passages quoting from the muslims that Guru Nanak spoke to to teach people all religions are the same, these were NOT quotes by Guru Nanak Himself. That group is the Ahmedins (ahmadiyya), they lie about religions to convert people, falsify information and even lie about the quran listing scientific events 1400 years ago as to whats happening now. Its all FALSE. It is mainly this ahmadiyya community that is involved in this scam about lying and converting, however more groups and muslims are also involved now, even beyond this group.

    Sikhs need to be educated in this as Guru Nanak always quotes 'Ram' in The Granth, never allah. The roots of Sikhism are not and never will be muslim in any way, shape or form and we need to be educated so that we can give these people knowledgable answers so they cannot take advantage and lie about our religion and brainwash us.
     
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  15. Verma1

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    As a simple answer - No, Guru Nanak Dev Ji and nor do Hindus and Sikhs believe in allah.
     
  16. Ambarsaria

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    Verma1 ji there was nothing to believe in Hindu Idols/Gods or Allah for Guru Nanak Dev ji. So it wasn't just Allah.

    Again I say it is great to see Hindu, Muslim and Christian wanting to claim closeness with Guru Nanak Dev ji like the Sikhs do. It is great.

    Sat Sri Akal.
     
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  17. Scarlet Pimpernel

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    New Spn'er welcome , I offer my view, it is given free but it is not without cost, take from it what you will
    If you know what you are ,why worry about it?

    Sat Sri Akaal
     
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  18. Harry Haller

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    Sikhs need to be educated in this as Guru Nanak always quotes 'Ram' in The Granth, never allah. The roots of Sikhism are not and never will be muslim in any way, shape or form and we need to be educated so that we can give these people knowledgable answers so they cannot take advantage and lie about our religion and brainwash us.


    Brotherji,

    Quoting 'Ram' in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is not a nod to hinduism, any more than not quoting 'Allah' is a rejection of Islam,. Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji refers to the Creator, Waheguru, Prabh.

    To say that the roots of Sikhism lie in Hinduism are just as wrong, Sikhism stands up on its own, with its own philosophy and teachings. Both Hinduism and Islam are wonderful religions, Sikhism did not start as a manifestation of either of these, as it views the ultimate Creator in a completely different way
     
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  19. ohhcuppycakee

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    Allah just means Al (the) llah (God). Muslims all over the word use the word Allah because it cannot be made plural. The Muslim concept of Allah is that He is formless, genderless, without partners, and above comprehension.
     
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  20. ohhcuppycakee

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    Why do so many Sikhs (note, on these religious forums) tend to have a prejudice against Muslims, always thinking every thing is an Islamic plot to destroy them? When I read about Sikhism, I find that it is above caste and religion, but when I read what people are saying on these forums I find something very different. It is very discouraging when I want to learn about Sikhism when I find such prejudiced statements.
     
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  21. Ambarsaria

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    ohhcuppycakee ji don't get discouraged but be wise to see beyond poster names. Many a poster are not necessarily what they post themselves to be . We run across agent provocateurs, etc., and it takes a bit of practice to realize some people's agendas.

    Why don't you start a topic on Islam as not everyone may be as knowledgeable but as Sikh (learner) we always love to learn.

    Before partition our village had more muslims than Sikhs and everyone loved each other. Their was a cultural and human bond. Post 1947 is a hate driven era one seems to have lost the heaven pre 1947.

    Please challenge too if there is something wrong stated. The admins are very fair on this forum and encourage interfaith dialog as much as they can.

    May the days and nights bring you health, happiness and prosperity.
     
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