FINAL RIFT: Ravidassia shrines shift out Guru Granth Sahib saroops

Ravidassia shrines shift out Guru Granth Sahib Saroops
WSN Bureau
For centuries, Bhagat Ravidass’ bani was preserved and celebrated because the Sikh Gurus included it in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib. For centuries, Sikhs everywhere in the world have been bowing their heads before the scriptures that contain this bani of Bhagat Ravidass. For any Sikh, the Gurbani has the status of the Guru, and Sikhs seek guidance from this Living Guru.

Now, followers of Bhagat Ravidass, who call themselves Ravidassias, are shifting out the Guru Granth Sahib from their shrines, thus making a permanent departure from the world’s fifth largest and youngest religion. In shrine after shrine, the Ravidassia sect authorities are either shifting the scriptures out or are telling the local Sikhs to take away the holy volume.

In a most peculiar reaction, and one that may possibly not go down too well with the proud Sikh community, the SGPC president Avtar Singh Makkar is flitting from one leader to another to convince them that they should not shift out the Sikh scriptures.
In the absence of any debate within the Sikh community (Most Sikhs, in fact, are shocked at the reaction of the Ravidassia sect), and with Makkar’s efforts largely propelled by an intention to save his boss Prakash Singh Badal from any unsavoury controversy, he does not seem to be succeeding.

But even as such behind the scenes bids to patch the rift for some time continue, Birs of Sri Guru Granth Sahib were shifted out from six Ravidass temples in Italy.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-news/25908-final-rift-ravidassia-shrines-shift-out.html
In Vienna too, the Saroop of Sri Guru Granth Sahib have been shifted out by the Ravidassia sect from Sri Guru ravidass Sabha, Vienna shrine. Bhai Narinder Singh of the Vienna gurdwara received the Saroops and despite the provocative step, he said in his Ardaas that those believing in the teachings of the Sikh Gurus and of the Bhagats must not let negativity rule their thoughts and lives. He even thanked those who had come to the gurdwara to hand over the birs. Hundreds of Sikhs were present when the Saroops were handed over.

The trigger for the rift was the shooting incident in Vienna where a group of Sikhs attacked the leaders of the Sachkhand Ballan Ravidassia sect who encouraged followers to touch their feet in the presence of Guru Granth Sahib, a practice considered anathema by the Sikhs. The incident was followed by widespread violence in Punjab.
Interestingly, and ironically, the SGPC president despite his best efforts failed to even set up a meeting with Dera Sachkhand Ballan and Sri Guru Ravidass Sadhu Sampardai President Nirmal Dass. Makkar visited the dera in Ballan and also Nirmal Dass’ dera in village Rasoolpur last Thursday and efforts have been made ever since to speak to the dera head. But so far only dera incharge Surinder Dass Bawa talked to him on the issue.

Significantly, Dera Ballan had made a clear departure from the tradition during the Antim Ardaas of Sant Ramanand, deputy head of the dera who was killed in a Vienna temple on May 24, by not organizing any Akhand Path and not having Prakash of Guru Granth Sahib in the religious function held on June 13.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=25908

Sikhs consider it surprising that even within the Ravidassia sect, little debate has taken place about their relations with the Sikh community and one wonders if the leaders have thought the implications of distancing themselves from a heritage earned over centuries, that too belonging to a community that accords great respect to Bhagat Ravidass ji.
The latest move seems to be a peculiar way of identity assertion by the Adharmi community.
15 July 2009

 
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No problem to us in Sikhism from this act. A day will come and they will relise the mistake they had made. It was due to our reverened Gurus that Bhagats got their fair place with due respect in the religious history of India. The respect to Bani of Bhagat Ravidass jee, which it had recieved from our Gurus donot have any parallels. god bless them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This article is strange. This is exactly what we want to happen from all places which have a dehdari guru installed. How can you have 2 gurus in one place? it does not make sense. The ravidassia community should have never installed Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji in the "temple". I would not worry about separation from the ravidassia community this act should strengthen ties with the ravidassia community and the sikhs as they have showed respect.

I think we as sikhs misunderstand that the inclusion of bani of a bhagat in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji does not mean that we "share" our guru with members of the bhagats community, there is a place called the gurdwara where all humans can go to but if people need "more" than this they have to produce their "own" and i cannot go to such a place because it is not universal. Jatts incur alot of criticism from dalits about control of gurdwaras but i have yet to see a gurdwara being named after a jatt bhagat.

please see this link:


Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=25908
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=25908
This individual and her views need not come near my guru.

Thanks,

Indy

Dear Brother Indy jee,
Pl refer to the news on todays first page of Punjabi Tribune. It says that they had changed the basic name of all their religious places from Gurdwaras or Ravidass Gurdwaras to 'Aaad Duwaree'. Moreover, they had denounced their relationship with us (Sikhs) by installing their latest book or granth called " Sri Aaad Parkash Ratnaker Granth' instead of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji which they were doing till date. Copies of this granth has been printed both in Punjabi and hindi and things are being arranged to send these copies to all over world to their sect's religious places in order to install insted of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
Really bad news.

Dear Hardip Ji,
Why is this bad news?, what did you want from these people? people have the freedom to practice "their" religion, "they" were changing our religion previously to satisfy their ego, people who constantly need societies-acceptance will now find self-acceptance in their new found religion.

If we look a black churches in america we can see the difference in preaching under the banner of christianity, our religion was also heading for the same difference but now sikhism has freed itself from such harm and by doing so has given them more honor if they see themselves as unique they maybe able to give greater mobility to their own community which was not happening in sikhism as they did not see sikhism as their own.

You see the problem here is not that sikhism has become caste orientated, the problem is that under the current reality and times we live in, society causes groups and identities to become more self-conscious, well sikhism rejects this as attachment and ego, the ravidassia community does not want to be a part of sikhism it wants to be a part of "itself" because of individual freedoms, and this is not a sikh trait but a choice resulting from the human condition when adapting to freedom. American white sikhs were free a long time before the ravidassias were and they do not feel the need to separate, the test of freedom and its general birth pangs amongst the ravidassias community will be a short lesson i sincerely believe this new religion will be short lived and the next generation won't identify with any community simply because religion just wont be that important.

Every religion have its own codes and conducts,which have to be kept in mind while taking directions from others religion and using their themes for one's own school of thoughts, if that are not taken careof, ill things could be happened. Sikhs have no person suprime than "Sh. Guru Granth Sahib Ji" who is full of complete knoledge of God ,its reality could not be challanged and like a Mile stone gives right direction to any one who wants to learn something in this regards. Thanks to Shri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib Ji's Who have saved us from so called modern Kami,land grabers,mayadharies Guru's, It is good if they could not give due respect to shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji it is better to place them in Gurudwaras.

I don't see why it would be a problem for Sikhs. Ravidassis consider themselves different already. Infact, I think removing the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji while a stange act considering they've had it in their deras for 100s of years is actually better for them. The reason is that once with Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is removed Ravidassis are well and truely free of any other religion.

The loss is that of Ravidassias not Sikhs. Because their children and generations to follow
will have no chance to read the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=25908
They will be confined to Bhagat Ravidass's bani only, like Kabir Panthis.

A clarification with the indulgence and patience of the forum. Kabir Panth is multi-denominational. Kabir Panthis come from many different religious paths to worship as Kabir Panthis, as Kabir Panth is not a religion but is a worldwide organization for structured gathering and worship, with a leadership, and a framework for worship. But one does not give up one's religion to worship in this panth. Muslims, Hindus, Christians and others join as the panth periodically for prayer and devotion. So they add the granth of Kabir to pre-existing scriptures of their own religion.