Do You Think You Are Khalsa?

PCJS · #1 (**permalink**) 10-Apr-2007, 22:39 PM

Well folks,
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/opinion-polls/15242-do-you-think-you-are-khalsa.html
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=15242

Many people refer to themselves as Khalsa. Some people even use Khalsa as their last name.

Just wondering...

First of all, do you even know what Khalsa is supposed to be?

Second, is there supposed to be anyone better than Khalsa?

Third, do you think you are a Khalsa?

Finally, doesn't referring to yourself as Khalsa automatically make you not a Khalsa?

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simpy · #2 (**permalink**) 10-Apr-2007, 22:49 PM

Respected PCJS Ji,
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=15242

Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Gobind Singh Ji, OUR FATHER named us khalsa.

that's why we refer ourself KHALSA. and we obey our Guru's Word, with His grace.....
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=15242

how much ego you feed yourself when you tell your name to others, which most probably your parents gave you????????? or did you name yourself after evalutaing your qualities properly

forgive me please

PCJS · #3 (**permalink**) 10-Apr-2007, 23:03 PM

Ok so, you are saying that even though you don't possess qualities of a Khalsa, you call yourself Khalsa because Guru Gobind Singh Ji instructed you to do so...

Do I understand it correctly?

I am not sure if this is correct statement though...
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=15242

I don't think Guru Gobind Singh Ji ever encouraged anyone to refer to themselves as Khalsa. Instead, he "may have" referred to the others as Khalsa, not to himself...

simpy · #4 (**permalink**) 10-Apr-2007, 23:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PCJS

Ok so, you are saying that even though you don't possess qualities of a Khalsa, you call yourself Khalsa because Guru Gobind Singh Ji instructed you to do so...

Do I understand it correctly?

I am not sure if this is correct statement though...

I don't think Guru Gobind Singh Ji ever encouraged anyone to refer to themselves as Khalsa. Instead, he "may have" referred to the others as Khalsa, not to himself...

Respected PCJS Ji,

you can twist this statement to whatever is convienent to you, your choice

parents name their children, and then they also instill good qualities in them, not just what their name is but everything possible.....

Our Guru Ji, Our Father is always within us, correcting us, teaching us, guiding us, in the ROOP OF NAAM

ijn kY hir nwmu visAw sd ihrdY hir nwmo iqn kMau rKxhwrw ]
hir nwmu ipqw hir nwmo mwqw hir nwmu sKweI imqRü hmwrw ]
hir nwvY nwil glw hir nwvY nwil msliq hir nwmu hmwrI krdw inq swrw ]
hir nwmu hmwrI sMgiq Aiq ipAwrI hir nwmu kulu hir nwmu prvwrw ]
jn nwnk kMau hir nwmu hir guir dIAw hir hliq pliq sdw kry insqwrw ]

Guru Mere Sang Sadaa Hai Naalay

forgive me please

PCJS · #5 (**permalink**) 10-Apr-2007, 23:37 PM

I brought this up was because it seems like some people so busy trying to tell Sikhs that they are not Sikhs by trying to show them they don't have qualities of a Sikh.

I personally don't care what you refer to yourself as. If it creates ego in you, then it beats the whole purpose. But I like to remind those who are so busy telling Sikhs that they are not Sikhs that they are not Khalsas at all and yet they refer to themselves as Khalsa.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=15242

What's more sinful? Calling yourself a Sikh even though we might not be good Sikh or calling yourself a Khlasa when you know for sure you are not a Khalsa?

A Sikh is a learner and a Khalsa who has spiritually perfected him/herself. So anybody who refers him/herself as a Sikh is a Sikh because a Sikh is simply someone who learns but not everybody who calls him/herself Khalsa is a Khalsa. In fact, anybody who refers to him/herself as Khalsa is not a Khalsa, just like a Guru wouldn't be a Guru if he referred to himself as Guru.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=15242

So quit judging others, people...

simpy · #6 (**permalink**) 12-Apr-2007, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PCJS

I brought this up was because it seems like some people so busy trying to tell Sikhs that they are not Sikhs by trying to show them they don't have qualities of a Sikh.

I personally don't care what you refer to yourself as. If it creates ego in you, then it beats the whole purpose. But I like to remind those who are so busy telling Sikhs that they are not Sikhs that they are not Khalsas at all and yet they refer to themselves as Khalsa.

What's more sinful? Calling yourself a Sikh even though we might not be good Sikh or calling yourself a Khlasa when you know for sure you are not a Khalsa?

A Sikh is a learner and a Khalsa who has spiritually perfected him/herself. So anybody who refers him/herself as a Sikh is a Sikh because a Sikh is simply someone who learns but not everybody who calls him/herself Khalsa is a Khalsa. In fact, anybody who refers to him/herself as Khalsa is not a Khalsa, just like a Guru wouldn't be a Guru if he referred to himself as Guru.

So quit judging others, people...

Respected PCJS Ji,

Endless thanks for the reply….

and thanks for judging your fellow members.

i am not sure what is in all this for you but one thing is for sure that you are doing a great service to the human race BY POINTING OUT OTHERS SHORTCOMINGS. Keep up the good work….

A good nice parupkaari human being like you can never refrain from telling others about their short falls-a great service you are doing. The more you do, the more others improve… Very beneficial for others…i don’t have words to thank you enough.

Khalsa is Waheguru’s slave. Your act of kindness is helping a lot of us moors to become worthy of Waheguru’s grace/Guru’s grace, which no doubt is going to be by His Own Grace only. But your help is great in preparing us on our path to righteousness and i tell you- this help is priceless…. Endless thanks for inspecting and cleaning our filth.

Getting slandered by others opens up a lot of fine and clean passages that lead to the state of pure consciousness. Your great service is like a ‘free of cost trash basket’ for everybody’s sins. Endless thanks for carrying the load of others trash on your shoulders and helping others in ‘burning away their demerits’. i am running out of words to appreciate your service to the humanity… we love you very much….

Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Raam Das Ji De Bachan Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib De Panna # 775

Awvho sMq jnhu gux gwvh goivMd kyry rwm ]
gurmuiK imil rhIAY Gir vwjih sbd Gnyry rwm ]
sbd Gnyry hir pRB qyry qU krqw sB QweI ]
Aihinis jpI sdw swlwhI swc sbid ilv lweI ]
Anidnu shij rhY rMig rwqw rwm nwmu ird pUjw ]
nwnk gurmuiK eyku pCwxY Avru n jwxY dUjw ]1]
sB mih riv rihAw so pRBu AMqrjwmI rwm ]
gur sbid rvY riv rihAw so pRBu myrw suAwmI rwm ]
pRBu myrw suAwmI AMqrjwmI Git Git rivAw soeI ]
gurmiq scu pweIAY shij smweIAY iqsu ibnu Avru n koeI ]
shjy gux gwvw jy pRB Bwvw Awpy ley imlwey ]
nwnk so pRBu sbdy jwpY Aihinis nwmu iDAwey ]2]
iehu jgo duqru mnmuKu pwir n pweI rwm ]
AMqry haumY mmqw kwmu k®oDu cqurweI rwm ]
AMqir cqurweI Qwie n pweI ibrQw jnmu gvwieAw ]
jm mig duKu pwvY cotw KwvY AMiq gieAw pCuqwieAw ]
ibnu nwvY ko bylI nwhI puqu kutMbu suqu BweI ]
nwnk mwieAw mohu pswrw AwgY swiQ n jweI ]3]
hau pUCau Apnw siqguru dwqw ikn ibiD duqru qrIAY rwm ]
siqgur Bwie clhu jIviqAw iev mrIAY rwm ]
jIviqAw mrIAY Baujlu qrIAY gurmuiK nwim smwvY ]
pUrw purKu pwieAw vfBwgI sic nwim ilv lwvY ]
miq prgwsu BeI mnu mwinAw rwm nwim vifAweI ]
nwnk pRBu pwieAw sbid imlwieAw joqI joiq imlweI ]4]

forgive me please

Harjas Kaur Khalsa · #7 (**permalink**) 12-Apr-2007, 11:02 AM

I took surname of Khalsa because in the United States 90% of Sikh converts take this surname. It is a way of eliminating any references to caste, class, race, nationality. You cannot tell who is convert from Judaism, Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, etc. Are we worthy to be called Harjas? Are we worthy to be called Kaur? Are we worthy to be named Gurdev? Are we worthy to be named Nirmal? Isn't the name something you are given to try to live up to? There are thousands of people with the surname Khalsa. It actually is a tip off that I'm an American convert. Although some Indians in America have also taken this surname. This is the name I accepted from the Panj Piare when I became amrit chuk.

Quote:

I brought this up was because it seems like some people so busy trying to tell Sikhs that they are not Sikhs by trying to show them they don't have qualities of a Sikh.

Is it qualities of a Sikh which are being pointed out, or is it qualities rejecting Sikh teaching that are being pointed out? Since many people on forums are promoting something as Sikhi which it is not: cutting hair, being a Naamdhari, removing kakkars etc. Are these personal criticisms or matters of distorting definitions of the religious faith for which clarity should be made?

Certainly everyone should be able to agree who Guru Ji is. Certainly everyone should be able to agree that Sikhi promotes not cutting or shaving hair. And if we can't agree on these basic things, what's in a name?

Quote:

What's more sinful? Calling yourself a Sikh even though we might not be good Sikh or calling yourself a Khlasa when you know for sure you are not a Khalsa?

The definition of who is a Sikh and who is a Khalsa and what is legitimate Sikh practice have nothing to do with either of our opinions. And definitely, if I do something wrong, especially on a public forum, I have to answer for it to the sangat, to the Panj Piare, and if bad enough to Akal Takht. So I try very carefully to research something before I say it. That doesn't mean I'm not wrong. But it means people should use care when speaking for what Sikhi is or is not. And if people distort Gurbani or invent new definitions of what Sikhi is on a public forum, and Sikhs do not correct or clarify it, that would be a sin.

If something is not what Sikhi teaches, then you or I or a doctoral dissertation, a book, a website, neon signs or a record album, a radio broadcast or a t.v. show will not make it so. And you should ask yourself, is the issue people have with someone who tells you what Sikhi teaches, or is the issue people have with what Sikhi actually teaches? Think about it. Because even if no one says anything. The eternal Truth is still the eternal Truth. People don't have to be perfect. Guruji still loves all people and will help them. But people need to be careful not to speak some false teaching in the name of Sikh religion. I don't have that right. No one has that right.

Quote:

Sikh Reht Maryada

SIKH CODE OF CONDUCT AND CONVENTIONS

Section One
CHAPTER 1

The Definition of Sikh :

Article I
Any human being who faithfully believes in
i. One Immortal Being,
ii. Ten Gurus, from Guru Nanak Sahib to Guru Gobind Singh Sahib,
iii. The Guru Granth Sahib,
iv. The utterances and teachings of the ten Gurus and
v. the baptism bequeathed by the tenth Guru, and who does not owe allegiance to any other religion, is a Sikh

p. After this, one from amongst the five beloved ones should explain to the initiates the discipline of the order : * Today you are reborn in the true Guru's household, ending the cycle of migration, and joined the Khalsa Panth (order).
*Your spiritual father is now Guru Gobind Singh and spiritual mother, Mata Sahib Kaur.
*Your place of birth is Kesgarh Sahib and your native place is Anandpur Sahib. You, being the sons of one father, are, inter-se yourselves and other baptised Sikhs, spiritual brothers.
You have become the pure Khalsa, having renounced your previous lineage, professional background, calling (occupation), beliefs, that is, having given up all connections with your caste, descent, birth, country, religion, etc.
You are to worship none except the One Timeless Being (Waheguru) no God, Goddess, incarnation or prophet.
You are not to think of anyone except the ten Gurus and anything except their gospel as your saviour.
You are supposed to know Gurmukhi (Punjabi alphabet). (If you do not, you must learn it). And recite, or listen in to the recitation of, the under mentioned scriptural compositions, the daily repetition of which is ordained, every day 1) The Japuji Sahib, (2) The Jaap Sahib, (3) The Ten Sawayyas (Quartrains), beginning "sarawag sudh", (4) The Sodar Rahiras and the Sohila.
Besides, you should read from or listen in to the recitation from the Guru Granth Sahib.

Have, on your person, all the time, the five K's :

I. The Keshas (unshorn hair),
II. The Kirpan {sheathed sword} (The length of the sword to be worn is not prescribed.,
III. The Kachhehra (The Kachhehra (drawers like garment) may be made from any cloth, but its legs should not reach down to below the shins.),
IV. The Kanga (comb),
V. The Karha {steel bracelet} (The Karha should be of pure steel.)

The undermentioned four transgressions (tabooed practices) must be avoided
1. Dishonouring the hair;
2. Eating the meat of an animal slaughtered the Muslim way;
3. Cohabiting with a person other than one's spouse;
4. Using tobacco.

In the event of the commission of any of these transgressions, the transgressor must get baptised again. If a transgression is committed unintentionally and unknowingly, the transgressor shall not be liable to punishment.
You must not associate with a Sikh who had uncut hair earlier and has cut it or a Sikh who smokes. You must ever be ready for the service of the Panth and of the Gurdwaras (Sikh places of worship). You must tender one tenth (Daswand) of your earnings to the Guru.
In short, you must act the Guru's way in all spheres of activity.
You must remain fully aligned to the Khalsa brotherhood in accordance with the principles of the Khalsa faith.
If you commit transgression of the Khalsa discipline, you must present yourself before the congregation and beg pardon, accepting whatever punishment is awarded. You must also resolve to remain watchful against defaults in the future.

q. The following individuals shall be liable to chastisement involving automatic boycott:
1. Anyone maintaining relations or communion with elements antagonistic to the Panth including the minas (reprobates), the masands (agents once accredited to local Sikh communities as Guru's representatives, since discredited for their faults and aberrations), followers of Dhirmal or Ram Rai, et. al., or users of tobacco or killers of female infants
2. One who eats/drinks Left-overs of the unbaptised or the fallen Sikhs;
3. One who dyes his beard;
4. One who gives off son or daughter in matrimony for a price or reward;
5. Users of intoxicants (hemp, opium, liquor, narcotics, cocaine, etc.);
6. One holding, or being a party to, ceremonies or practices contrary to the Guru's way;
7. One who defaults in the maintenance of Sikh discipline.

Sikh Reht Maryada, The Definition of Sikh, Sikh Conduct & Conventions, Sikh Religion Living, India

I didn't quote any Jathabandi Maryada which tend to be stricter. Although, those who have taken amrit need to follow the instructions and Maryada of their Panj Piare. This is just straight up the SGPC Maryada. And if you compare the authoritative definition of a Sikh, and practice of an amritdhari with what is promoted on the forums, you have to admit theres some real distortions being passed off to the public. Should people be quiet and accept all these distorted definitions in the name of tolerance? It's a forum. Why can't people share their best understanding of what the truth about Sikhi is, and what it isn't? If people want to cut hair and have some identity as Sikh, that's fine. It's when people start teaching that Sikhi and our Guru's teach it's acceptable to cut hair; when people start to redefine what Sikhi teaches, then that's a debate. Loud opinions really are nothing. Your position needs to be credible and cite sources to establish what the teachings actually are. Then thats established teaching and practice, not your opinion.

Quote:

First of all, do you even know what Khalsa is supposed to be?

Second, is there supposed to be anyone better than Khalsa?

Third, do you think you are a Khalsa?

Finally, doesn't referring to yourself as Khalsa automatically make you not a Khalsa?

1. I think I have a clue

Quote:

Panth's Status of Guruhood
Article XXIII
The concept of service is not confined to fanning the congregation, service to and in the Guru ka Langar etc. A Sikh's entire life is a life of benevolent exertion. The most fruitful service is the service that secures the optimum good by minimal endeavour. That can be achieved through organised collective action. A Sikh has, for this reason, to fulfil his/her Panthic obligations (obligations as a member of the corporate entity, the Panth), even as he/she performs his/her individual duties. This corporate entity is the Panth. Every Sikh has also to fulfil his obligations as a unit of the corporate body, the Panth.
a. The Guru Panth (Panth's status of Guruhood) means the whole body of committed baptised (Amritdhari) Sikhs. This body was fostered by all the ten Gurus and the tenth Guru gave it its final shape and invested it with Guruhood.

Sikh Reht Maryada, The Definition of Sikh, Sikh Conduct & Conventions, Sikh Religion Living, India

2. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh (The Khalsa belongs to God. the Victory belongs to God.) So God is better than the Khalsa. Khalsa is God's own Army. Khalsa Panth is invested with Guruship, and Guru is God's own Jyot.
3. According to the rehat Maryada and Panj Piare I became a member of the Khalsa when I became amrit chukk.
4. According to the rehat Maryada, there are 4 bujjar kurehits which would invalidate my amrit. There is nothing which says referring to myself as Khalsa will invalidate my amrit and necessitate rebaptism. Also it states that taking amrit we become members of the Khalsa Panth. See above link to Rehat Maryada. To be a member of Khalsa Panth is also an evolution. We are supposed to follow practices of Sikhism and become better people over time. The goal really is jeevan mukta. And I will publically acknowledge that I am not a good person. I want to be a good person. I am not a holy person. I want to be a holy person. So there is no doubt, I accept all of your criticisms as to being a bad person in need of Guruji's corrections. I am sure they will come.

Quote:

The word "Khalsa" means "pure", Khalsa's are Sikhs which have undergone the sacred Amrit Ceremony initiated by the 10th Sikh Guru, Guru Gobind Singh. The Khalsa order was initially created on Baisakhi Day March 30 1699, with Guru Gobind Singh baptizing 5 Sikhs and then in turn asking the five Khalsa's to baptize him. Following this the Guru personally baptized thousands of men and women into the Khalsa order. The Khalsa baptism ceremony is undertaken as part of ones own personal spiritual evolution when the initiate is ready to fully live up to the high expectations of Guru Gobind Singh. All Sikhs are expected to be Khalsa or be working towards that objective...

Spiritual Evolution
Stage 1: Manmukh A person who is self-centered and only thinks about himself and the material world around him and is totally oblivious to God.
Stage 2: Sikh Anyone who sets out on the path of learning and meets the specific definition of a Sikh as appears in the Reht Maryada (Official Code of Conduct).
Stage 3: Khalsa Total dedication to Sikhism. One who has has shed his ego and personality and truly honours the memory of Guru Gobind Singh through his actions and deeds.
Stage 4: Gurmukh One who has achieved mukhti (salvation) and is totally God-centered.
The Sikhism Home Page: The Khalsa

Quote:

The Khalsa was formed to destroy the caste system (the Hindu class system) because all men and women lose their previous caste identities when they join the Khalsa and take the new surnames of Singh (lion) and Kaur (princess). The Khalsa combines all the castes because s/he serves people like the outcaste, works to make a living like the working caste, fights like the warrior caste, and can carry out any religious practice like the brahmin or priestly caste. The Khalsa was also made to show the equality of women and men because women had their own surname, because they were raised in status to a Kaur (princess), and because they also carried weapons like the kirpan. The Khalsa was also made to fight terror, so the Khalsa ideal is the saint-soldier. Finally, the Khalsa is the distinct Sikh community, giving a specific form to the ideas of the Gurus.

REonline - People of Faith - Answers - Sikhism

Quote:

As a result when people came to the United States, Canada or Britain, they began to use their family names/surnames in their name to make it easier to identify oneself when a lot of other Panjabis or Sikhs have the same name.
But, when addressing oneself or when identifying oneself, especially in the Sikh community, one must not stress or emphasise the surname/family name/gout. Better still is to avoid using the surname. "Singh" or "Khalsa" is good enough. However, if someone uses a surname for the purpose of identifying themselves rather than intentions of promoting caste discrimination and superiority, this seems fine to me.

http://www.panthic.org/news/115/ARTICLE/1971/2005-11-13.html

Please correct my mistakes.

simpy · #8 (**permalink**) 12-Apr-2007, 17:38 PM

Respected Harjas Kaur Khalsa Ji,
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=15242

very informative and to the point

forgive me please

Astroboy · #9 (**permalink**) 03-Feb-2008, 23:27 PM

hmmm