The Magical Hat

Epepke makes an ignorant statement about the turban and kachera that a fellow Atheist finds offensve. This is my reponse. The smiley's have been translated from that forum into this one.


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The intellect of the mind is like a drunken elephant. Whatever one utters is totally false, the most false of the false. - Guru Nanak, 351

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See the book by G. Mann a retired physicist from the L Livermore Laboratory in CA. "My Memories of Old Punjab."

He has a chapter at least on the turban in history and also its significance during his lifetime in Punjab. One thing I remember is that before the days of water purification farmers would use the loose end of the turban as a filter. They could quench their thirst by covering their mouths with the cloth and drink water from a pond through it. That way anything that was dangerous would be filtered out.

He also reports that a man with a beard and turban was always regarded by police (this is under the Raj during his childhood) with more respect than a man with a beard, cut hair, and NO turban. A man with a beard and no turban was viewed as borderline, probably a gangster but definitely a Bad Mash of some kind, definitely unreliable, and someone to be watched.

Simple filteration of water, that's quite interesting.

We see in ancient cultures that a man with no beard could simply be not trusted. because theives and criminals were shaved and put to jail.
Today its the other way around, a man with a beard is seen to be less trustworthy.

Bhagat Singh ji

You always ask others to give data like in one of Singh ji's post you asked him to provide data of Restaurants where employees do not wash hands, I am asking you by the same token before accusing people with turbans as less trustworthy, give me data, as you know Sikhs are very less in World population; otherwise you must admit you are nothing but blind accuser.

Oops! I meant it in a sense that "Today its the other way around, a man with a beard is seen to be less trustworthy." I mean it more generally not applying to individuals like you and me. We know beards should not be a factor in determining trustorthiness. I apologise for this confusion.
That simply comes from my own experience taht there seems to be a trend with increased facial hair and how much people trust (the people with facial hair) initiallly. I do not have statistical evidence that shows that. Although, there maybe some evidence that exists.

you say, "I am asking you by the same token before accusing people with turbans as less trustworthy"
I realize that I changed my statement (and the apparent meaning of it) but from what I said (and apparently meant) in my previous statement, I did not make that accusation.
Also the word "seems" automatically implies uncertainty.

Bhagat ji

Thanks for rewording your statement. I understood that you were not making an accusation against those who wear turbans. I think you wear one yourself. You meant that the social acceptance of turbans has changed and not for the better. I am not aware of statistics to prove either side of the argument. However this study was published some months ago on Sikhnet. It is hair-raising, frightening. It demonstrates that there are many people in the west who in complete bigotry rising from even greater ignorance equate the turban with danger and evil. Read this and you will go away very upset. At least I did.

Study suggests "turban effect" as a source of "Islamophobia"

July 2nd, 2008 Source: www.canada.com

A Muslim-style turban is perceived as a threat, according to a new study, even by people who don't realize they hold the prejudice, dubbed "the turban effect" by researchers.

Research volunteers played a computer game that showed apartment balconies on which different figures appeared, some wearing Muslim-style turbans or hijabs and others bare-headed. They were told to shoot at the targets carrying guns and spare those who were unarmed, with points awarded accordingly.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/interfaith-dialogues/24624-the-magical-hat.html

People were much more likely to shoot Muslim-looking characters - men or women - even if they were carrying an innocent item instead of a weapon, the researchers found.

"Whether they're holding a steel coffee mug or a gun, people are just more likely to shoot at someone who is wearing a turban," says author Christian Unkelbach, a visiting scholar at Australia's University of New South Wales. "Just putting on this piece of clothing changes people's behaviour."

Unkelbach largely blames one-sided media portrayals for the bias.

The results would almost certainly be the same if this study was conducted in Canada, says Mohamed Elmasry, national president of the Canadian Islamic Congress.

"I'm hoping that Canadian Muslims one day become invisible," says Elmasry. "As such, Canadians will treat them like any others."

Islamophobia - "latent" before 9/11 - is on the rise, he says, but there is very little research on the issue in Canada.

The new study "does confirm our biggest fear that there is discrimination and prejudice within our society, and unfortunately people don't recognize it or don't admit it," says Salam Elmenyawi, president of the Muslim Council of Montreal.

"Sometimes they really don't know that it does exist."

Beyond a turban or hijab, someone's name, skin colour or a long beard may also identify them as a Muslim and make them a target of prejudice, he says. Elmenyawi wears a head-covering and long beard and says he struggles between recognizing that negative stereotypes exist and not becoming "paranoid" that he might fall prey to them.

In fact, the Australian study, which will be published in an upcoming issue of the Journal of Experimental Social Psychology, confirmed that people don't even realize they hold these biased views. When the true intention of the experiment was revealed, Unkelbach says participants insisted they were not prejudiced and must have reacted differently from everyone else.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24624

"The most common response was, 'I'm sure I didn't show that effect,'" he says. "They're uncomfortable and I believe them - people are not doing this willingly. If they could, they would control that. Here, people are almost the victims of what they are fed by their environment."

A quick sampling of news items related to Muslims and the Middle East confirmed this, he says, with a focus on violence and terrorism almost obliterating more balanced stories about the culture and people.

"If everything about Middle Easterners is associated with terrorism, people tend to form stereotypes in their head," confirms Rima Wilkes, a sociology professor studying media at the University of British Columbia.

Even fictional media feed these biases, she says. One study showed that movies tend to feature "socially acceptable" villain stereotypes that have evolved over time, from evil Germans in the post-war years to vaguely Muslim bad guys more recently. Even swarthy, pixelated video game adversaries send the message that "ethnic others are bad," Wilkes says.

Shannon Proudfoot
Canwest News Service

Source Study suggests "turban effect" as a source of "Islamophobia" | SikhNet

Aad ji that is scary but THIS is just as scary if not more scary... if what he claims is true.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24624
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24624
I realize by posting this I might be going off topic but this is similar to the situation Turbaned people are in.

Yes, I wear a turban, a dhumalla specifically, and I do have uncut hair, and its because I love to wear one and don't just wear it because someone told me! I think I should put that bolded and underlined in my signature for other forum members.

You are correct. The video has been removed. aad0002

Thanks Bhagat Singh Ji for rewording your statement and still I have a difficulty to accept it is as an acceptable truth.
There are some in this world, who are ignorant to the core of their hearts. They watch one incident and generalize it. How many are there though? I have been living in US (known for its being ignorant generally about the rest of the world and infected by a self assumed thinking that the U.S is the world, outside there is nothing) After having said that let me share with you that I have encountered such ignorant that can be counted on fingers.. In context of beard and Turban, all Americans are not like this. I have enjoyed well extreme respect on their hands that are not ignorant. This is not a new thing. In India regardless where a Sikh goes, his appearance is targeted for jokes (That is not ignorance) but while in dealing in social or financial matter, the Sikhs earn a great respect. If statistics is taken, there wouldn’t be many who would draw a line between clean shaven and Sikhs with beard and Turban in context of “trust”, I feel its matter of mental growth to accept all as brothers and sisters. Bhagat Singh ji is saying (as per his reworded statement) in essence that the world thinks that way which is questionable. In Africa I taught for some time but never ever faced any kind of this low behavior. If it is linked to 911 especially in the western countries, still I doubt it that the statement of Bhagat Singh ji is true hundred percent, and I don’t feel it is scary either. It’s a factual garbage that comes out due to eternal mental capacities.