Pride and Humility

Astroboy · #1 (**permalink**) 12-Feb-2008, 23:26 PM

Pride and Humility explained:-
In general, pride and humility do oppose each other, but only when applied in the same respect. One can be proud of his success while humble when looking at the path left to travel. Likewise, it seems rational to be proud of one's strengths while being humble about one's weaknesses, but perhaps this should be better called "to be realistic".
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/interfaith-dialogues/19870-pride-and-humility.html
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=19870

YouTube - Pride and Humility

YouTube - HUMILITY NEEDED - SIKH RELIGION

YouTube - Humility and Love

YouTube - Guruka Singh - The Five Challenges

Harjas Kaur Khalsa · #2 (**permalink**) 28-Mar-2008, 20:48 PM

I don't have an issue with states of mastana. And I completely accept the Gurbani you linked Namjap ji. But watching the antics of the Naamdhari Kookay, the biggest disapproval I have is not the hairwaving and jumping around, so much as the dedhari Guru they are becoming excited about and the people who are all matatekking to him as Sikh Satguru. I don't believe any Gurbani could relate to the dedhari guru in the video. I don't know why you linked them together.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=19870
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=19870

mY baurI myrw rwmu Bqwru ]
mai ba-uree mayraa raam bhataar.
I am crazy - the Lord is my Husband.

Do you really believe this relates to Jagjit Singh Naamdhari? Because the Kookay do. That's why they are losing control of themselves in his presence. I could show you a Christian video where people are behaving the same way... but it still wouldn't relate to this shabad.

Astroboy · #3 (**permalink**) 28-Mar-2008, 21:05 PM

Your reply bring to mind another video - an unknown sect of Muslim who behave like Mastanas too. But Harjas Ji, Guru is always the Shabad and not an individual. Even when Nanak was physically alive, he confirmed it. So if we ignore the mastana acting and concentrate on the Gurbani and the singing, then we are not letting your minds mislead us. Jagjit singh or any so called sant can be shown in a video, but my heart follows the Har Jas.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=19870
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=19870

Harjas Ji, I just loved the kirtan and couldn't find another audio/video without Jagjit Singh Ji appearance. Sorry, I hurt your feelings. Never intended to, but at the back of my mind knew that you're going to say something. Thank God you are not hard on me.

Harjas Kaur Khalsa · #4 (**permalink**) 28-Mar-2008, 21:19 PM

Quote:

Guru is always the Shabad and not an individual. Even when Nanak was physically alive, he confirmed it. So if we ignore the mastana acting and concentrate on the Gurbani and the singing, then we are not letting your minds mislead us. Jagjit singh or any so called sant can be shown in a video, but my heart follows the Har Jas.

Naamdharis believe and teach that Jagjit Singh Naamdhari the individual IS Guru Nanak and IS the Shabad. Maybe you can ignore the kookay and Jagjit Singh or any baba and sant in a video.... and concentrate on the Gurbani kirtan. But how can you deny relating them together only confuses people and promotes the Naamdhari message... which is that their dedhari guru is in fact who the Shabad is being sung for, and who is in fact, supposed to be the Shabad?

Quote:

Harjas Ji, I just loved the kirtan and couldn't find another audio/video without Jagjit Singh Ji appearance.

Yes, the Naamdharis are talented musicians. But there is a hukamnama from Akal Takht Sahib that Naamdharis are not to play kirtan in Gurdwara, so we can't really separate their music from their message. As in this video, the message isn't just Guruji's Shabad. The message seen in the video is Jagjit Singh Naamdhari is the Guru and people become mastana and matatek in his presence.

Astroboy · #5 (**permalink**) 28-Mar-2008, 21:28 PM

I'm going to replace the video right away. Thank you for your direction. I am lacking in understanding of the Guru's Hukam. Hope you stay with us long enough to teach and guide all of us. I appreciate your knowledge and wisdom.

Astroboy · #6 (**permalink**) 28-Mar-2008, 22:41 PM

YouTube - Bhai Joginder Singh Riaar - Mere Baba Main Baura
Text : mayray baabaa mai ba-uraa sabh khalak sai-aanee mai ba-uraa

Bhai Harjinder Singh Ji (Srinagar Wale) - Ham Kookar Tere Darbar
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=19870
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=19870
Text : ham kookar tayray darbaar

Astroboy · #7 (**permalink**) 29-Mar-2008, 02:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harjas Kaur Khalsa

Yes, the Naamdharis are talented musicians. But there is a hukamnama from Akal Takht Sahib that Naamdharis are not to play kirtan in Gurdwara, so we can't really separate their music from their message. As in this video, the message isn't just Guruji's Shabad. The message seen in the video is Jagjit Singh Naamdhari is the Guru and people become mastana and matatek in his presence.

Sikh Reht Maryada

THE CODE OF SIKH CONDUCT AND CONVENTIONS

CHAPTER V

Kirtan (Devotional Hymns Singing by a Group or an Indvidual)

Article VI

a) Only a Sikh may perform Kirtan in a congregation.

b) Kirtan means singing the scriptural compositions in traditional musical measures.

c) In the congragation, Kirtan only of Gurbani (Guru Granth's or Guru Gobind Singh's hymns) and, for its elaboration, of the compositions of Bhai Gurdas and Bhai Nand Lal, may be performed.

d) It is improper, while singing hymns to rhythmic folk tunes or to traditional musical measures, or in team singing, to induct into them improvised and extraneous refrains. Only a line from the hymn should be made a refrain.

Chapter I

The Definition of Sikh

Ariticle 1 Any human being who faithfully believes in

(i) One Immortal Being,

(ii) Ten Gurus, from Guru Nanak Dev to Guru Gobind Singh,

(iii) The Guru Granth Sahib,

(iv) The utterances and teachings of the ten Gurus and

(v) the baptism bequeathed by the tenth Guru, and who does not owe allegiance to any other religion, is a Sikh.

Harjas Kaur Khalsa · #8 (**permalink**) 29-Mar-2008, 04:25 AM

A HUKUMNAMA REGARDING NAAMDHARI and other DEHDHARI Groups.

Maata No: 13, passed by 5 Singh Sahibaan on 24th October 2000 at Sri Akal Takht Sahib, Amritsar, Punjab.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=19870
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=19870

In relation to Namdharis and Kirtan in Gurdwara Sahibs, 5 Singh Sahibaan agreed that those who do not believe in the 10 Gurus and Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as their salvation, and instead believe in Dehdhari Gurus and Devi Devte cannot be permitted to do Kirtan in Gurdwara Sahibs.

Jatherdar Joginder Singh Vendanti

pk70 · #9 (**permalink**) 29-Mar-2008, 11:43 AM

namjap ji

I have to take freedom to disgree with you.
Pride and humality cannot go side by side as per Guru Shabad. Guru Gobind Singh ji taught Sikhs to credit victory to HIM, it is amazing that their humbleness in Battle let the attacker run away alive unlike common military practice during those times. We can be happy of being Sikhs but never be proud because with HIS blessings we are Sikhs.
We feel pride to be true lover of Gurbani; however, never hasitate to accuse others if we find others in disagreement. What is this? It is our failure in humality test.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=19870
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=19870
I feel Namdhari Guru is still in defiance to Guru Gobind Singh Ji's Hukam, never admits it; so we can just ignore him.