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28-Mar-2008, 20:48 PM
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| | | | | Re: Pride and Humility I don't have an issue with states of mastana. And I completely accept the Gurbani you linked Namjap ji. But watching the antics of the Naamdhari Kookay, the biggest disapproval I have is not the hairwaving and jumping around, so much as the dedhari Guru they are becoming excited about and the people who are all matatekking to him as Sikh Satguru. I don't believe any Gurbani could relate to the dedhari guru in the video. I don't know why you linked them together. Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=19870
Do you really believe this relates to Jagjit Singh Naamdhari? Because the Kookay do. That's why they are losing control of themselves in his presence. I could show you a Christian video where people are behaving the same way... but it still wouldn't relate to this shabad.
Last edited by Harjas Kaur Khalsa; 28-Mar-2008 at 20:51 PM.
Reason: spelling
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28-Mar-2008, 21:05 PM
|  | ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap) | | | Enrolled: Jul 14th, 2007
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| | | | | Re: Pride and Humility Your reply bring to mind another video - an unknown sect of Muslim who behave like Mastanas too. But Harjas Ji, Guru is always the Shabad and not an individual. Even when Nanak was physically alive, he confirmed it. So if we ignore the mastana acting and concentrate on the Gurbani and the singing, then we are not letting your minds mislead us. Jagjit singh or any so called sant can be shown in a video, but my heart follows the Har Jas.
Harjas Ji, I just loved the kirtan and couldn't find another audio/video without Jagjit Singh Ji appearance. Sorry, I hurt your feelings. Never intended to, but at the back of my mind knew that you're going to say something. Thank God you are not hard on me. | 
28-Mar-2008, 21:19 PM
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| | | | | Re: Pride and Humility Quote: | Guru is always the Shabad and not an individual. Even when Nanak was physically alive, he confirmed it. So if we ignore the mastana acting and concentrate on the Gurbani and the singing, then we are not letting your minds mislead us. Jagjit singh or any so called sant can be shown in a video, but my heart follows the Har Jas. | Naamdharis believe and teach that Jagjit Singh Naamdhari the individual IS Guru Nanak and IS the Shabad. Maybe you can ignore the kookay and Jagjit Singh or any baba and sant in a video.... and concentrate on the Gurbani kirtan. But how can you deny relating them together only confuses people and promotes the Naamdhari message... which is that their dedhari guru is in fact who the Shabad is being sung for, and who is in fact, supposed to be the Shabad? Quote: | Harjas Ji, I just loved the kirtan and couldn't find another audio/video without Jagjit Singh Ji appearance. | Yes, the Naamdharis are talented musicians. But there is a hukamnama from Akal Takht Sahib that Naamdharis are not to play kirtan in Gurdwara, so we can't really separate their music from their message. As in this video, the message isn't just Guruji's Shabad. The message seen in the video is Jagjit Singh Naamdhari is the Guru and people become mastana and matatek in his presence. | 
28-Mar-2008, 21:28 PM
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| | | | | Re: Pride and Humility I'm going to replace the video right away. Thank you for your direction. I am lacking in understanding of the Guru's Hukam. Hope you stay with us long enough to teach and guide all of us. I appreciate your knowledge and wisdom. | 
28-Mar-2008, 22:41 PM
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29-Mar-2008, 02:11 AM
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| | | | | Re: Pride and Humility Quote:
Originally Posted by Harjas Kaur Khalsa Yes, the Naamdharis are talented musicians. But there is a hukamnama from Akal Takht Sahib that Naamdharis are not to play kirtan in Gurdwara, so we can't really separate their music from their message. As in this video, the message isn't just Guruji's Shabad. The message seen in the video is Jagjit Singh Naamdhari is the Guru and people become mastana and matatek in his presence. | Sikh Reht Maryada THE CODE OF SIKH CONDUCT AND CONVENTIONS
CHAPTER V Kirtan (Devotional Hymns Singing by a Group or an Indvidual) a) Only a Sikh may perform Kirtan in a congregation. b) Kirtan means singing the scriptural compositions in traditional musical measures. c) In the congragation, Kirtan only of Gurbani (Guru Granth's or Guru Gobind Singh's hymns) and, for its elaboration, of the compositions of Bhai Gurdas and Bhai Nand Lal, may be performed. d) It is improper, while singing hymns to rhythmic folk tunes or to traditional musical measures, or in team singing, to induct into them improvised and extraneous refrains. Only a line from the hymn should be made a refrain. The Definition of Sikh Ariticle 1 Any human being who faithfully believes in (i) One Immortal Being, (ii) Ten Gurus, from Guru Nanak Dev to Guru Gobind Singh, (iii) The Guru Granth Sahib, (iv) The utterances and teachings of the ten Gurus and (v) the baptism bequeathed by the tenth Guru, and who does not owe allegiance to any other religion, is a Sikh. | 
29-Mar-2008, 04:25 AM
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| | | | | Re: Pride and Humility A HUKUMNAMA REGARDING NAAMDHARI and other DEHDHARI Groups.Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=19870Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=19870
Maata No: 13, passed by 5 Singh Sahibaan on 24th October 2000 at Sri Akal Takht Sahib, Amritsar, Punjab.
In relation to Namdharis and Kirtan in Gurdwara Sahibs, 5 Singh Sahibaan agreed that those who do not believe in the 10 Gurus and Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as their salvation, and instead believe in Dehdhari Gurus and Devi Devte cannot be permitted to do Kirtan in Gurdwara Sahibs.
Jatherdar Joginder Singh Vendanti | 
29-Mar-2008, 11:43 AM
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| | | | | Re: Pride and Humility namjap ji
I have to take freedom to disgree with you.
Pride and humality cannot go side by side as per Guru Shabad. Guru Gobind Singh ji taught Sikhs to credit victory to HIM, it is amazing that their humbleness in Battle let the attacker run away alive unlike common military practice during those times. We can be happy of being Sikhs but never be proud because with HIS blessings we are Sikhs. Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=19870
We feel pride to be true lover of Gurbani; however, never hasitate to accuse others if we find others in disagreement. What is this? It is our failure in humality test. Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=19870
I feel Namdhari Guru is still in defiance to Guru Gobind Singh Ji's Hukam, never admits it; so we can just ignore him. | 
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