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Pride and Humility

Discussion in 'Interfaith Dialogues' started by Astroboy, Feb 12, 2008.

  1. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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    Pride and Humility explained:-
    In general, pride and humility do oppose each other, but only when applied in the same respect. One can be proud of his success while humble when looking at the path left to travel. Likewise, it seems rational to be proud of one's strengths while being humble about one's weaknesses, but perhaps this should be better called "to be realistic".


    YouTube - Pride and Humility

    YouTube - HUMILITY NEEDED - SIKH RELIGION

    YouTube - Humility and Love

    YouTube - Guruka Singh - The Five Challenges
     
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  3. Harjas Kaur Khalsa

    Harjas Kaur Khalsa
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    I don't have an issue with states of mastana. And I completely accept the Gurbani you linked Namjap ji. But watching the antics of the Naamdhari Kookay, the biggest disapproval I have is not the hairwaving and jumping around, so much as the dedhari Guru they are becoming excited about and the people who are all matatekking to him as Sikh Satguru. I don't believe any Gurbani could relate to the dedhari guru in the video. I don't know why you linked them together.

    mY baurI myrw rwmu Bqwru ]
    mai ba-uree mayraa raam bhataar.
    I am crazy - the Lord is my Husband.



    Do you really believe this relates to Jagjit Singh Naamdhari? Because the Kookay do. That's why they are losing control of themselves in his presence. I could show you a Christian video where people are behaving the same way... but it still wouldn't relate to this shabad.
     
    #2 Harjas Kaur Khalsa, Mar 28, 2008
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2008
  4. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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    Your reply bring to mind another video - an unknown sect of Muslim who behave like Mastanas too. But Harjas Ji, Guru is always the Shabad and not an individual. Even when Nanak was physically alive, he confirmed it. So if we ignore the mastana acting and concentrate on the Gurbani and the singing, then we are not letting your minds mislead us. Jagjit singh or any so called sant can be shown in a video, but my heart follows the Har Jas.

    Harjas Ji, I just loved the kirtan and couldn't find another audio/video without Jagjit Singh Ji appearance. Sorry, I hurt your feelings. Never intended to, but at the back of my mind knew that you're going to say something. Thank God you are not hard on me. :wah:
     
  5. Harjas Kaur Khalsa

    Harjas Kaur Khalsa
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    Naamdharis believe and teach that Jagjit Singh Naamdhari the individual IS Guru Nanak and IS the Shabad. Maybe you can ignore the kookay and Jagjit Singh or any baba and sant in a video.... and concentrate on the Gurbani kirtan. But how can you deny relating them together only confuses people and promotes the Naamdhari message... which is that their dedhari guru is in fact who the Shabad is being sung for, and who is in fact, supposed to be the Shabad?


    Yes, the Naamdharis are talented musicians. But there is a hukamnama from Akal Takht Sahib that Naamdharis are not to play kirtan in Gurdwara, so we can't really separate their music from their message. As in this video, the message isn't just Guruji's Shabad. The message seen in the video is Jagjit Singh Naamdhari is the Guru and people become mastana and matatek in his presence.
     
  6. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    I'm going to replace the video right away. Thank you for your direction. I am lacking in understanding of the Guru's Hukam. Hope you stay with us long enough to teach and guide all of us. I appreciate your knowledge and wisdom.
     
  7. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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  8. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    Sikh Reht Maryada



    [SIZE=-1]THE CODE OF SIKH CONDUCT AND CONVENTIONS[/SIZE]


    [SIZE=-1]CHAPTER V[/SIZE]


    [SIZE=-1]Kirtan (Devotional Hymns Singing by a Group or an Indvidual)[/SIZE]​



    [SIZE=-1]Article VI [/SIZE]​



    [SIZE=-1]a) Only a Sikh may perform Kirtan in a congregation. [/SIZE]​


    [SIZE=-1]b) Kirtan means singing the scriptural compositions in traditional musical measures. [/SIZE]​


    [SIZE=-1]c) In the congragation, Kirtan only of Gurbani (Guru Granth's or Guru Gobind Singh's hymns) and, for its elaboration, of the compositions of Bhai Gurdas and Bhai Nand Lal, may be performed.[/SIZE]​


    [SIZE=-1]d) It is improper, while singing hymns to rhythmic folk tunes or to traditional musical measures, or in team singing, to induct into them improvised and extraneous refrains. Only a line from the hymn should be made a refrain. [/SIZE]​



    [SIZE=-1]Chapter I[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=-1]


    The Definition of Sikh


    Ariticle 1 Any human being who faithfully believes in​


    (i) One Immortal Being,​


    (ii) Ten Gurus, from Guru Nanak Dev to Guru Gobind Singh,​


    (iii) The Guru Granth Sahib,​


    (iv) The utterances and teachings of the ten Gurus and​


    (v) the baptism bequeathed by the tenth Guru, and who does not owe allegiance to any other religion, is a Sikh. ​

    [/SIZE]
     
    #7 Astroboy, Mar 29, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
  9. Harjas Kaur Khalsa

    Harjas Kaur Khalsa
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    A HUKUMNAMA REGARDING NAAMDHARI and other DEHDHARI Groups.

    Maata No: 13, passed by 5 Singh Sahibaan on 24th October 2000 at Sri Akal Takht Sahib, Amritsar, Punjab.

    In relation to Namdharis and Kirtan in Gurdwara Sahibs, 5 Singh Sahibaan agreed that those who do not believe in the 10 Gurus and Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as their salvation, and instead believe in Dehdhari Gurus and Devi Devte cannot be permitted to do Kirtan in Gurdwara Sahibs.

    Jatherdar Joginder Singh Vendanti
     
  10. pk70

    pk70
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    namjap ji

    I have to take freedom to disgree with you.
    Pride and humality cannot go side by side as per Guru Shabad. Guru Gobind Singh ji taught Sikhs to credit victory to HIM, it is amazing that their humbleness in Battle let the attacker run away alive unlike common military practice during those times. We can be happy of being Sikhs but never be proud because with HIS blessings we are Sikhs.
    We feel pride to be true lover of Gurbani; however, never hasitate to accuse others if we find others in disagreement. What is this? It is our failure in humality test.
    I feel Namdhari Guru is still in defiance to Guru Gobind Singh Ji's Hukam, never admits it; so we can just ignore him.
     
  11. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Who wants to pay this price for attaching themselves to this guy? We gave up being the gurukind. Now it is my turn to apologize for I am sorry for speaking without grace on this point.

    ਰੰਗ ਸੰਗਿ ਬਿਖਿਆ ਕੇ ਭੋਗਾ ਇਨ ਸੰਗਿ ਅੰਧ ਨ ਜਾਨੀ ॥੧॥
    rang sang bikhiaa kae bhogaa ein sang andhh n jaanee ||1||
    He is immersed in the enjoyment of corrupt pleasures; engrossed in them, the blind fool does not understand. ||1||

    ਹਉ ਸੰਚਉ ਹਉ ਖਾਟਤਾ ਸਗਲੀ ਅਵਧ ਬਿਹਾਨੀ ॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
    ho sancho ho khaattathaa sagalee avadhh bihaanee || rehaao ||
    "I am earning profits, I am getting rich", he says, as his life passes away. ||Pause||


    ਹਉ ਸੂਰਾ ਪਰਧਾਨੁ ਹਉ ਕੋ ਨਾਹੀ ਮੁਝਹਿ ਸਮਾਨੀ ॥੨॥
    ho sooraa paradhhaan ho ko naahee mujhehi samaanee ||2||
    "I am a
    hero, I am famous and distinguished; no one is equal to me."||2||


    ਜੋਬਨਵੰਤ ਅਚਾਰ ਕੁਲੀਨਾ ਮਨ ਮਹਿ ਹੋਇ ਗੁਮਾਨੀ ॥੩॥
    jobanavanth achaar kuleenaa man mehi hoe gumaanee ||3||
    "I am young, cultured, and born of a good family." In his mind, he is proud and arrogant like this. ||3||


    ਜਿਉ ਉਲਝਾਇਓ ਬਾਧ ਬੁਧਿ ਕਾ ਮਰਤਿਆ ਨਹੀ ਬਿਸਰਾਨੀ ॥੪॥
    jio oulajhaaeiou baadhh budhh kaa marathiaa nehee bisaraanee ||4||
    He is trapped by his false intellect, and he does not forget this until he dies.

    Ang 242
     
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  12. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਅਖਰ ਪੜਿ ਪੜਿ ਭੁਲੀਐ ਭੇਖੀ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਅਭਿਮਾਨੁ ॥
    Akẖar paṛ paṛ bẖulī­ai bẖėkẖī bahuṯ abẖimān.
    Reading their books over and over again, people continue making mistakes; they are so proud of their religious robes.
    Guru Nanak Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]

    ਸੁਤ ਸੰਪਤਿ ਦੇਖਿ ਇਹੁ ਮਨੁ ਗਰਬਿਆ ਰਾਮੁ ਰਿਦੈ ਤੇ ਖੋਇਆ ॥
    Suṯ sampaṯ ḏėkẖ ih man garbi­ā rām riḏai ṯė kẖo­i­ā.
    Gazing upon your children and your property, your mind is proud and arrogant; you cast out the Lord from your heart.
    Devotee Baini - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]

    ਆਪਨ ਤਨੁ ਨਹੀ ਜਾ ਕੋ ਗਰਬਾ ॥
    Āpan ṯan nahī jā ko garbā.
    The body which you are so proud of, does not belong to you.
    Guru Arjan Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]

    ਧਨਵੰਤਾ ਹੋਇ ਕਿਆ ਕੋ ਗਰਬੈ ॥
    Ḏẖanvanṯā ho­ė ki­ā ko garbai.
    Why should anyone be proud of being rich?
    Guru Arjan Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]
     
  13. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਸਫਲੁ ਓਹੁ ਮਾਥਾ ਸੰਤ ਨਮਸਕਾਰਸਿ ॥
    Safal oh māthā sanṯ namaskāras.
    Blessed is that forehead, which bows in humility to the Saints.
    Guru Arjan Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]

    ਸਹਜ ਸੁਹੇਲਾ ਫਲੁ ਮਸਕੀਨੀ ॥
    Sahj suhėlā fal maskīnī.
    The fruit of humility is intuitive peace and pleasure.
    Guru Arjan Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]

    ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਕੈ ਗਰੀਬੀ ਸਮਾਹਾ ॥
    Barahm gi­ānī kai garībī samāhā.
    The God-conscious being is steeped in humility.
    Guru Arjan Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]

    ਕਰਉ ਬੰਦਨਾ ਅਨਿਕ ਵਾਰ ਸਰਨਿ ਪਰਉ ਹਰਿ ਰਾਇ ॥
    Kara­o banḏnā anik vār saran para­o har rā­ė.
    Bow in humility to the Lord, over and over again, and enter the Sanctuary of the Lord, our King.
    Guru Arjan Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]
     
  14. carolineislands

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    Are the Naamdaris allowed to come to Gurdwara? They can come but they can't sing, right?
     
  15. carolineislands

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  16. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    Caroline Ji,

    From time to time all rules have to be re-defined because we are constantly growing in consciousness. In the beginning we question everything, and in the end we have to come to terms with everything. Actually, there is only one rule - His HUKAM.

    ਹੁਕਮਿ ਰਜਾਈ ਚਲਣਾ ਨਾਨਕ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਨਾਲਿ ॥੧॥
    Hukam rajā­ī cẖalṇā Nānak likẖi­ā nāl. ||1||
    O Nanak, it is written that you shall obey the Hukam of His Command, and walk in the Way of His Will. ||1||
    Guru Nanak Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]
     
  17. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਮਨਮੁਖ ਲੂਣ ਹਾਰਾਮ ਕਿਆ ਨ ਜਾਣਿਆ ॥
    मनमुख लूण हाराम किआ न जाणिआ ॥
    Manmukẖ lūṇ hārām ki­ā na jāṇi­ā.
    The manmukhs are false to their own selves; they feel no gratitude for what they have been given.
    Guru Nanak Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]

    ਦੇਖਾ ਦੇਖੀ ਸਭ ਕਰੇ ਮਨਮੁਖਿ ਬੂਝ ਨ ਪਾਇ ॥
    देखा देखी सभ करे मनमुखि बूझ न पाइ ॥
    Ḏėkẖā ḏėkẖī sabẖ karė manmukẖ būjẖ na pā­ė.
    They all show off and pretend, but the self-willed manmukhs do not understand.
    Guru Amar Das - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]


    ਮਨਮੁਖਿ ਕਿਛੂ ਨ ਸੂਝੈ ਅੰਧੁਲੇ ਪੂਰਬਿ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਕਮਾਇ ॥
    मनमुखि किछू न सूझै अंधुले पूरबि लिखिआ कमाइ ॥
    Manmukẖ kicẖẖū na sūjẖai anḏẖulė pūrab likẖi­ā kamā­ė.
    The blind, self-willed manmukhs do not understand anything. They do what they are pre-ordained to do.
    Guru Amar Das - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]
     
  18. Harjas Kaur Khalsa

    Harjas Kaur Khalsa
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    They aren't allowed to sing Gurbani kirtan, because they aren't singing to Shabadguru, but to their human guru, Jagjit Singh Naamdhari. Since they aren't Sikhs, why would they be singing kirtan in Gurdwara? Naamdharis are on payroll of Indian government and Naamdhari radio broadcasts from RSS-VHP Hindutva website. There are extremely good reasons why they are not allowed.

    Here, take a good look at their friends. Would Satguru Nanak Dev Ji take money and radio promotion from radical Hindutva karsevaks? Because Naamdharies claim Jagjit singh Naamdhari is Guru Nanak Dev Ji.

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Here is Badal of SAD/BJP/RSS giving check to Jagjit Singh Naamdhari
    [​IMG]

    YouTube - Video 1 of RSS Attack On Sikhs Kathunangal Oct 2006
    Vishwa Hindu Parishad of America - Web Links
    Vishva Hindu Parishad
    YouTube - Bajrang Dal Speech - Gujarat
     
  19. Sikh80

    Sikh80
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    Without any disrespect, do you have any back up for the above statement or you happen to know ?
    The same was the question asked in another post as well where it was stated that Mr. Baldev singh's writings are not as per Gurmat. The answer is still awaited.

    Kindly clarify or elucidate.
     
  20. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਜਾ ਕੌ ਜੋਗੀ ਜਤੀ ਸਿਧ ਸਾਧਿਕ ਅਨੇਕ ਤਪ ਜਟਾ ਜੂਟ ਭੇਖ ਕੀਏ ਫਿਰਤ ਉਦਾਸ ਕਉ ॥
    जा कौ जोगी जती सिध साधिक अनेक तप जटा जूट भेख कीए फिरत उदास कउ ॥
    Jā kou jogī jaṯī siḏẖ sāḏẖik anėk ṯap jatā jūt bẖėkẖ kī­ė firaṯ uḏās ka­o.
    For His Sake, the Yogis, celibates, Siddhas and seekers, the countless sects of fanatics with matted hair wear religious robes, wandering as detached renunciates.
    Bard Bala-y - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]

    ਕਹਤਿਅਹ ਕਹਤੀ ਸੁਣੀ ਰਹਤ ਕੋ ਖੁਸੀ ਨ ਆਯਉ ॥
    कहतिअह कहती सुणी रहत को खुसी न आयउ ॥
    Kehṯi­ah kahṯī suṇī rahaṯ ko kẖusī na ā­ya­o.
    I listened to preachers and teachers, but I could not be happy with their lifestyles.
    Bard Bhikha - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]

    ਜਾ ਕੀ ਸੇਵਾ ਸਿਧ ਸਾਧ ਮੁਨਿ ਜਨ ਸੁਰਿ ਨਰ ਜਾਚਹਿ ਸਬਦ ਸਾਰੁ ਏਕ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਈ ਹੈ ॥
    जा की सेवा सिध साध मुनि जन सुरि नर जाचहि सबद सारु एक लिव लाई है ॥
    Jā kī sėvā siḏẖ sāḏẖ mun jan sur nar jācẖeh sabaḏ sār ėk liv lā­ī hai.
    The Siddhas and Holy Saadhus, the silent sages and angelic beings, yearn to serve Him; through the most excellent Word of the Shabad, they are lovingly attuned to the One Lord.
    Bard Nala-y - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]
     
  21. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਆਦੇਸੁ ਤਿਸੈ ਆਦੇਸੁ ॥
    आदेसु तिसै आदेसु ॥
    Āḏės ṯisai āḏės.
    I bow to Him, I humbly bow.
    Guru Nanak Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]


    ਓਇ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਆਗੈ ਨਾ ਨਿਵਹਿ ਓਨਾ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਕ੍ਰੋਧੁ ਬਲਾਇ ॥੩॥
    ओइ सतिगुर आगै ना निवहि ओना अंतरि क्रोधु बलाइ ॥३॥
    O­ė saṯgur āgai nā niveh onā anṯar kroḏẖ balā­ė. ||3||
    They do not bow before the True Guru; the demon of anger is within them. ||3||
    Guru Ram Das - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]


    ਖਾਲਕ ਕਉ ਆਦੇਸੁ ਢਾਢੀ ਗਾਵਣਾ ॥
    खालक कउ आदेसु ढाढी गावणा ॥
    Kẖālak ka­o āḏės dẖādẖī gāvṇā.
    I humbly bow to the Creator Lord; I am a minstrel singing His Praises.
    Guru Nanak Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]
     

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