Are Hindus Sacred Temple Fake?

Babajis Servant · #1 (**permalink**) 22-Mar-2012, 21:48 PM

WGJKK WGJKF,

I wanted to know on the denial of the Idol worship, does this means all the Idols in the ancient sacred temples should not be worshiped? as some of these are more than thousands or years old.
And the Sanatan text says that few of these temples are created by Lord Ram (the temple in Rameshwaram), Lord Krishna (temple in Dwarka and Jagannath) and soon
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/hinduism/38248-are-hindus-sacred-temple-fake.html

And how are Gurudwaras different from Temple?
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38248

My great apologies if I have hurt someone, forgive me for my lack of knowledge.

Gurfateh.
*

harry haller · #2 (**permalink**) 22-Mar-2012, 22:44 PM

Welcome friend,

you have posted an interesting question, one to which you will get many answers, chances are that none of them will be the 'official sikh line', they will just be personal opinions, just in fact like this post!

Further down through the thread the answers will be come less as each individual poster then argues with another about which is the correct answer, after which it will spin off on a tangent and then die

Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38248
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38248

Yes, my understanding is that no idols should be worshipped, and that Lord Ram and Lord Krishna never existed as far as Sikhism is concerned.

Gurudwaras today are no different from Hindu temples, but that was not the original intention, they should have been places of learning and contemplation and focus. As Sikhs we should put great emphasis on non ritualistic activities, but most Gurudwaras wish to appear hip and modern and exciting, so a lot model themselves on Mandirs.

I completely respect Hinduism and Vedicism and hope I can learn something from your goodself, but Sikhism is not Hinduism, it is Sikhism. If we can accept this point then we can have some fruitful dialogue

Best Wishes

Ambarsaria · #3 (**permalink**) 22-Mar-2012, 22:54 PM

Babajis Servant ji welcome to spn and your first post. Some comments,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Babajis Servant

WGJKK WGJKF,

I wanted to know on the denial of the Idol worship, does this means all the Idols in the ancient sacred temples should not be worshiped?
I do not think it is for Sikhs to tell Hinduism believers what to do or not do. However, in Sikhism we do not have belief in these or need to worship.

as some of these are more than thousands or years old.
Age has little to do with the above answer. There are beautiful rocks perhaps billions years old.

And the Sanatan text says that few of these temples are created by Lord Ram (the temple in Rameshwaram), Lord Krishna (temple in Dwarka and Jagannath) and soon

And how are Gurudwaras different from Temple?
Gurdwaras are places for worship but not of worship. The difference is that only Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is of reverence being treated as embodiment of a Guru or a most revered teacher. Gurdwaras are nice buildings and many have historic connections to the evolution of Sikhism. So there may be love and cherish but not in the context that these are places holding more of God/creator inside versus your house or any other place. Being community places there are certain norms associated for up-keeping these but that is about it. The key focus is Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

My great apologies if I have herted someone, forgive me for my lack of knowledge.

Gurfateh.

Hope above provides input to your question.

Regards.

Babajis Servant · #4 (**permalink**) 23-Mar-2012, 00:01 AM

Thanks for the kind replies.
I just wanted to say that in no ways Sikhism is related to Hinduism. I respect Sikhism the way it is.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38248

I am a firm Hindu in the same way as you are a true Sikh, with Babajis grace I want Babajis to bless me with knowledge of true Sikhi.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38248

I know I am not a born Sikh nor I am ready to leave my religion but from the bottom of my heart I respect Babaji and all his beloved ones.

I face lot of confusion as my Hindu faith collide with Sikh teaching, because I love and respect Babaji in same way how I love and respect my religious text and 1000's of Gods : )

And my religion permit me for this.May Babaji show me the light and bless me to become one of his smallest servant.

Now its easy for me as my doubt is clear about the question I raised as you said: "that Lord Ram and Lord Krishna never existed as far as Sikhism is concerned"

Inderjeet Kaur · #5 (**permalink**) 23-Mar-2012, 05:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Babajis Servant

Thanks for the kind replies.
I just wanted to say that in no ways Sikhism is related to Hinduism. I respect Sikhism the way it is.

I am a firm Hindu in the same way as you are a true Sikh, with Babajis grace I want Babajis to bless me with knowledge of true Sikhi.

I know I am not a born Sikh nor I am ready to leave my religion but from the bottom of my heart I respect Babaji and all his beloved ones.

I face lot of confusion as my Hindu faith collide with Sikh teaching, because I love and respect Babaji in same way how I love and respect my religious text and 1000's of Gods : )

And my religion permit me for this.May Babaji show me the light and bless me to become one of his smallest servant.

Now its easy for me as my doubt is clear about the question I raised as you said: "that Lord Ram and Lord Krishna never existed as far as Sikhism is concerned"

We are taught that a Hindu should be a good Hindu, a Muslim should be a good Muslin and, of course, a Sikh should be a good Sikh. Our way is not the only way; other religions also have validity.

Being a good Hindu, according to my understanding, involves praying to what we call "idols." If that is your belief, I cannot contradict it in your own mandirs. That is one difference between a ZHindu mandir and a gurudwara. There are no "idols" in a gurudwara.

I'm not in total agreement with Harry ji about Lord Ram and Lord Krishna. They may well have existed; we just don't concern ourselves with them. Sikhi is like that; we don't all agree on everything. I think we all believe in the things written in the definition of a Sikh from the Sikh Rehat Maryada:

Quote:

Any human being who faithfully believes in
i. One Immortal Being,
ii. Ten Gurus, from Guru Nanak Sahib to Guru Gobind Singh Sahib,
iii. The Guru Granth Sahib,
iv. The utterances and teachings of the ten Gurus and

v. the baptism bequeathed by the tenth Guru, and who does not owe allegiance to any other religion, is a Sikh

Please feel free to ask whatever you like. As long as your questions are honest ones, as I'm sure they will be, you should expect honest, respectful answers from us.

Much joy and prosperity to you.

BhagatSingh · #6 (**permalink**) 23-Mar-2012, 08:56 AM

WJKK WJKF,
Ekoankar is Akal Moorat, the timeless idol (timeless and idol, both formless and form). Both creator and creation exist in time but Ekoankar is beyond time. To unlearn (go beyond) time helps to recognize Ekoankar. and yes it is possible to unlearn time. Worship this Akal Moorat in whatever rituals you perform. The timeless is everywhere even in an idol.

Gurudwaras are not much different from temples. Only the rituals that take place inside are different. The various traditions in Hinduism have their own different set of rituals. So a simple comparison cannot be made. Also there are ancient temples where the Gods are carved inside the temples and even on the outside, all over.

I am guessing this is why temples themselves are worshipped. Needless to say any place carrying a sacred object is worthy of worship.

We often bow down before we even enter a gurudwara. This is to say we are entering sacred space. We then bow to the Nishaan sahib (or in the west, the Nishan Sahib before the Gurudwara itself). Then we bow to the Guru Granth Sahib and the Weapons that are placed in front of it. And if you are in Harimandir Sahib then you bow down to Dakhni Deori, a place where Baba Deep Singh ji laid down his head, etc etc.

Quote:

I face lot of confusion as my Hindu faith collide with Sikh teaching, because I love and respect Babaji in same way how I love and respect my religious text and 1000's of Gods : )

Really? Which tradition do you follow? What religious text do you follow? Who is/are your God(s)?

And this is where I fulfill Harry ji's prophecy. what would he do without me?

Quote:

Originally Posted by harry haller

Welcome friend,

you have posted an interesting question, one to which you will get many answers, chances are that none of them will be the 'official sikh line', they will just be personal opinions, just in fact like this post!

Further down through the thread the answers will be come less as each individual poster then argues with another about which is the correct answer, after which it will spin off on a tangent and then die

Yes, my understanding is that no idols should be worshipped,

Yes

Quote:

and that Lord Ram and Lord Krishna never existed as far as Sikhism is concerned.

No. As far as the authors of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji are concerned, they do/did/will exist.

Quote:

Gurudwaras today are no different from Hindu temples, but that was not the original intention, they should have been places of learning and contemplation and focus. As Sikhs we should put great emphasis on non ritualistic activities, but most Gurudwaras wish to appear hip and modern and exciting, so a lot model themselves on Mandirs.

Original intention? The first "Gurudwara" was called Hari Mandir, popularly known as the Golden Temple. 'nuff said.

Gurudwara, Mandirs, churches, mosques are a place of ritual, devotion and love, which we call worship. There is no such thing as a non-ritual activity. Any non-ritual activity that you are going to do in a gurudwara is by definition a ritual. Let's say you go there to listen to or sing kirtan, this is a ritual. You go there to read paath, a ritual. You go there to clean shoes, a ritual.

Now learning and contemplation can also happen but the latter is better done in solitude. If you can find solitude in a gurudwara great. But I can get that at home and I think it's better (and healthier) to perform rituals in the Gurudwara than sit on your butt and be lost in thought.

Quote:

I completely respect Hinduism and Vedicism and hope I can learn something from your goodself, but Sikhism is not Hinduism, it is Sikhism. If we can accept this point then we can have some fruitful dialogue

Best Wishes

I think any person who has studied them both, knows they are not the same. And any person who has studied them both, knows they are very related.

Luckysingh · #7 (**permalink**) 23-Mar-2012, 14:01 PM

Babajis servant ji

As long as you understand what the difference in sikh views are comparitively then you can gain more understanding. Understanding means making sense of the reasoning and doesn't mean you should agree or not. You may come to your own conclusion once you understand where sikhism is coming from.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38248
Below is a link for an interesting read about sikhism and hinduism, it may help you gain a little more clarity:-
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38248

http://www.sikhmissionarysociety.org...ndHinduism.pdf
.
Lucky Singh

Annie · #8 (**permalink**) 23-Mar-2012, 17:48 PM

Babajis Servant ji, the believers of a religion do not all have to agree with every detail of the religion, or understand it exactly the same way. I am by no means an expert, but it is my understanding that the idols are not there to be worshipped. They are symbolic, and are there to help you focus on the deities that they represent. In turn, the deities themselves are also symbols, representing different aspects or parts of one greater deity, and also the parts of a humans mind and spirit. Everything is real, but not in the way one might think if he takes it at face value.

Gyani Jarnail Singh · #9 (**permalink**) 23-Mar-2012, 20:11 PM

1. Its NOT Har(I) mandir but Ha(i)r mandir...SIHAREE....not Biharee.

2. No where in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is the word HA(i)RMANDIR ever used for a PHYSICAL "Gurdwara"...the word harmandir is used for the HUMAN BODY.This word is used MOST by guru Amardass Ji...(long before the Gurdwara in Amrtisar was built)