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Hinduism Are Hindus Sacred Temple Fake?

Discussion in 'Interfaith Dialogues' started by Babajis Servant, Mar 22, 2012.

  1. Babajis Servant

    Babajis Servant
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    WGJKK WGJKF,

    I wanted to know on the denial of the Idol worship, does this means all the Idols in the ancient sacred temples should not be worshiped? as some of these are more than thousands or years old.
    And the Sanatan text says that few of these temples are created by Lord Ram (the temple in Rameshwaram), Lord Krishna (temple in Dwarka and Jagannath) and soon

    And how are Gurudwaras different from Temple?

    My great apologies if I have hurt someone, forgive me for my lack of knowledge.

    Gurfateh.
     
    #1 Babajis Servant, Mar 22, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 23, 2012
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  3. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    Welcome friend,

    you have posted an interesting question, one to which you will get many answers, chances are that none of them will be the 'official sikh line', they will just be personal opinions, just in fact like this post!

    Further down through the thread the answers will be come less as each individual poster then argues with another about which is the correct answer, after which it will spin off on a tangent and then die lol

    Yes, my understanding is that no idols should be worshipped, and that Lord Ram and Lord Krishna never existed as far as Sikhism is concerned.

    Gurudwaras today are no different from Hindu temples, but that was not the original intention, they should have been places of learning and contemplation and focus. As Sikhs we should put great emphasis on non ritualistic activities, but most Gurudwaras wish to appear hip and modern and exciting, so a lot model themselves on Mandirs.

    I completely respect Hinduism and Vedicism and hope I can learn something from your goodself, but Sikhism is not Hinduism, it is Sikhism. If we can accept this point then we can have some fruitful dialogue

    Best Wishes
     
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  4. Ambarsaria

    Ambarsaria Canada
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    Babajis Servant ji welcome to spn and your first post. Some comments,
    Hope above provides input to your question.

    Regards.
     
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    #3 Ambarsaria, Mar 22, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2012
  5. Babajis Servant

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    Thanks for the kind replies.
    I just wanted to say that in no ways Sikhism is related to Hinduism. I respect Sikhism the way it is.

    I am a firm Hindu in the same way as you are a true Sikh, with Babajis grace I want Babajis to bless me with knowledge of true Sikhi.

    I know I am not a born Sikh nor I am ready to leave my religion but from the bottom of my heart I respect Babaji and all his beloved ones.

    I face lot of confusion as my Hindu faith collide with Sikh teaching, because I love and respect Babaji in same way how I love and respect my religious text and 1000's of Gods : )

    And my religion permit me for this.May Babaji show me the light and bless me to become one of his smallest servant.

    Now its easy for me as my doubt is clear about the question I raised as you said: "that Lord Ram and Lord Krishna never existed as far as Sikhism is concerned"
     
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    #4 Babajis Servant, Mar 22, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 23, 2012
  6. Inderjeet Kaur

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    We are taught that a Hindu should be a good Hindu, a Muslim should be a good Muslin and, of course, a Sikh should be a good Sikh. Our way is not the only way; other religions also have validity.

    Being a good Hindu, according to my understanding, involves praying to what we call "idols." If that is your belief, I cannot contradict it in your own mandirs. That is one difference between a ZHindu mandir and a gurudwara. There are no "idols" in a gurudwara.

    I'm not in total agreement with Harry ji about Lord Ram and Lord Krishna. They may well have existed; we just don't concern ourselves with them. Sikhi is like that; we don't all agree on everything. I think we all believe in the things written in the definition of a Sikh from the Sikh Rehat Maryada:
    Please feel free to ask whatever you like. As long as your questions are honest ones, as I'm sure they will be, you should expect honest, respectful answers from us.

    Much joy and prosperity to you.
    [SIZE=-1]
    [/SIZE]
     
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    #5 Inderjeet Kaur, Mar 23, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2012
  7. BhagatSingh

    BhagatSingh Canada
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    WJKK WJKF,
    Ekoankar is Akal Moorat, the timeless idol (timeless and idol, both formless and form). Both creator and creation exist in time but Ekoankar is beyond time. To unlearn (go beyond) time helps to recognize Ekoankar. and yes it is possible to unlearn time. Worship this Akal Moorat in whatever rituals you perform. The timeless is everywhere even in an idol.

    Gurudwaras are not much different from temples. Only the rituals that take place inside are different. The various traditions in Hinduism have their own different set of rituals. So a simple comparison cannot be made. Also there are ancient temples where the Gods are carved inside the temples and even on the outside, all over.

    [​IMG]
    I am guessing this is why temples themselves are worshipped. Needless to say any place carrying a sacred object is worthy of worship.

    We often bow down before we even enter a gurudwara. This is to say we are entering sacred space. We then bow to the Nishaan sahib (or in the west, the Nishan Sahib before the Gurudwara itself). Then we bow to the Guru Granth Sahib and the Weapons that are placed in front of it. And if you are in Harimandir Sahib then you bow down to Dakhni Deori, a place where Baba Deep Singh ji laid down his head, etc etc.


    Really? Which tradition do you follow? What religious text do you follow? Who is/are your God(s)?

    And this is where I fulfill Harry ji's prophecy. what would he do without me?

    Yes
    No. As far as the authors of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji are concerned, they do/did/will exist.

    Original intention? The first "Gurudwara" was called Hari Mandir, popularly known as the Golden Temple. 'nuff said.

    Gurudwara, Mandirs, churches, mosques are a place of ritual, devotion and love, which we call worship. There is no such thing as a non-ritual activity. Any non-ritual activity that you are going to do in a gurudwara is by definition a ritual. Let's say you go there to listen to or sing kirtan, this is a ritual. You go there to read paath, a ritual. You go there to clean shoes, a ritual.

    Now learning and contemplation can also happen but the latter is better done in solitude. If you can find solitude in a gurudwara great. But I can get that at home and I think it's better (and healthier) to perform rituals in the Gurudwara than sit on your butt and be lost in thought.

    I think any person who has studied them both, knows they are not the same. And any person who has studied them both, knows they are very related.
     
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  8. Luckysingh

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    Babajis servant ji

    As long as you understand what the difference in sikh views are comparitively then you can gain more understanding. Understanding means making sense of the reasoning and doesn't mean you should agree or not. You may come to your own conclusion once you understand where sikhism is coming from.
    Below is a link for an interesting read about sikhism and hinduism, it may help you gain a little more clarity:-

    http://www.sikhmissionarysociety.org/sms/smspublications/SikhReligionAndHinduism.pdf
    .
    Lucky Singh
     
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  9. Annie

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    Babajis Servant ji, the believers of a religion do not all have to agree with every detail of the religion, or understand it exactly the same way. I am by no means an expert, but it is my understanding that the idols are not there to be worshipped. They are symbolic, and are there to help you focus on the deities that they represent. In turn, the deities themselves are also symbols, representing different aspects or parts of one greater deity, and also the parts of a humans mind and spirit. Everything is real, but not in the way one might think if he takes it at face value.
     
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  10. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    1. Its NOT Har(I) mandir but Ha(i)r mandir...SIHAREE....not Biharee.

    2. No where in the SGGS is the word HA(i)RMANDIR ever used for a PHYSICAL "Gurdwara"...the word harmandir is used for the HUMAN BODY.This word is used MOST by guru Amardass Ji...(long before the Gurdwara in Amrtisar was built)
     
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  11. ravneet_sb

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    Sat Sri Akaal,


    Har Man Andir (Har Mandir) (Harmandir)

    It's not only the physical place,

    Human mind is deeply influence by five, to break the influence, sacred space is created.

    One must take inside journey, one will find the same dominant five organs, operated by mind. Mind is controlled controlled by intellect (intelligence act),
    and acted by

    jyot

    which is common to all

    Whose inner journey is initiated, will never blame or say negative of basic instincts for others.

    Everyone's Inside Mind has five basic instincts.

    Understand Mandir (Man Andir) Harmandir (Har Man Andir)

    Man to Jyot Saroop Hai Apna Mool Pachan.



    Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
    Waheguru Ki Ki Fateh
     
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  12. Randip Singh

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    On a side not though haven't we created idols of our own. Hasn't bowing down to pay respect to Bani become an act of wordhip? Various rules and rituals such as circumnavigating Bani an indication of this? Also pictures of Baba's Sants and Guru's are bowed to and prayed to?

    Is there any difference between Sikhs and Hindu's anymore?animatedkhanda1
     
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  13. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    Majority Sikhs today are just KESHADHAREE HINDUS. ( Hindus with Long hair). Not much different between the two...

    2. HINDUS today DONT follow the Vedas shastars or Purans...
    3. SIKHS dONT follow what Gurbani says

    Guru Ji observed this ages ago..Bed kateb kaho matt jhootheh..JHOOTHAH uh jo na bichareh...BOTH SIKHS and hINDUS DONT do vichaar on their religious texts..
     
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  14. Harry Haller

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    There is a massive difference between Sikhs and Hindu's. There are also many Hindus who call themselves Sikhs...

    I personally do not blame or judge anyone for whatever way they wish to live their lives, however, if we are to call ourselves Sikhs, it would be helpful to know the history and way in which Sikhi was born, as this sets a foundation for interpreting bani correctly and in the spirit in which it was written.

    Sikhism was a religion different to most others in that rejected superstition, ritual in favour of truth and reality, and it is in this spirit in which we should function, however it is hard, one has to take responsibility for living within Hukam, or take the consequences, sometimes there are consequences even from being in Hukam, and it can be quite lonely watching people practice Sikhi, when deep in your heart you know they have just replaced one idol with another, its lonely because maybe we all want and need idols, but in my view, the true Sikh is one who sustains himself not only with the grace of God, but uses the grace of God to educate and inform themselves of the truth, and through that truth, live within the best they can to follow Hukam.

    Anything else is just bells and whistles
     
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  15. Kamala

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    No. They are still sacred and respected by Sikhs, but if you call that Mandir a Gurdwara then you are wrong.
     
  16. sanj007

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    Well what is Hinduism or Sanantan Dharma, primal points:

    1) Moksha-Merging with god, so to speak, but only if the individual leads a noble life
    2)


    Note word ALL

    3) Karma yoga-selfless service:
    http://www.santosha.com/philosophy/gita-chapter3.html
    A number of non hindus think they change hinduism into something it is not, well they cant verses are clear!
     
  17. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    What a beautiful quote, could you kindly explain why Hinduism is not known for treating all alike, given the caste system? or why certain people are not allowed to read the scriptures?

    Clearly a number of Hindus seem to think they can change Hinduism into something it is not, the Hinduism I see on a daily basis is unlike what you are quoting, mind you to be fair, I could say the same about Sikhism...........
     
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  18. Kanwaljit Singh

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  19. sanj007

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    dear me hinduism scriptures are clear, black and white, what other individuals choose to do is up to them, but end game of Hinduism is Moksha,now tell me how can they gain this.
    Now for this caste system which has no sanction scriptures and let see facts of scriptures as already stated buts lets see some more:
    http://agniveer.com/888/caste-system/

    Now every society has functions, so what do you call these functions, nothing, what is name for priest, nothing, what is name for cleaner, nothing, its simple, there is no birth based anything, we all born equally and attain our jobs/professions through our training and education, but each function has dignity of labour:

    My caste=HUMAN, as per Hindu scriptures, accept all ebings as god resides in all, regardless of paypackets, simple!!

    Social evil of birth based caste has no sanction in scriptures, and people are working to eliminate it, starting with oneself
    Next....
     
  20. sanj007

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    some do and some dont, it will take time to wipe this social evl, but scriptures are clear, hence need stating these facts to help wipe out this cultural malpractice
     
  21. Kanwaljit Singh

    Kanwaljit Singh India
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    I think the problem is there are many scriptures and schools of thoughts, which don't gel together!
     

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