So We Sikhs Want a Homeland?

Lets looks at history...... we actually had a home land, during the Sikh Empire, we then had our first Anglo Sikh war and then followed by our second Sikh War when Maharaja Ranjit Singh died leaving the Empire in a power struggle.

Now lets rewind again a bit earlier, the Hindu's were being converted byu the Moghuls until Sikhism started becoming a martial religion

Now lets forward again back to the second Anglo SIkh war, so then these same Hindus that were butchered by the Moghuls revolted against the SIkhs especially the Dogras, also the Muslims and the British
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/hard-talk/33201-so-we-sikhs-want-a-homeland.html

We then lost our homeland and still being a martial religion we were put into use in WW1 and WW2
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=33201

Now comming to 2010, we are no longer are a martial religion even though we speak like we still are. We are not tauaght to fight, and all the 5K have now just been turned into symbols.

How do you feel about wearing symbols? They were never supposed to be symbols they were suppose to be real tools!

Since now we only wear symbols this weakens what SIkhism really stand for and now we get to a stage of non-martial Sikhism which means for most of us we just do paat!

So it looks like we had our Sikh homeland but it was unfortunately dissolved although we still have our roots in Punjab today and that is a good enough homeland without it being an offical Sikh state

Now to the points of getting our homeland back..... we are no longer a martial force and many of us have integrated into society, getting educated, families etc etc and in my point of view it would take the entire Sikh population to take up arms but we are no longer martial so its not possible.

Infact we have a PM that is Sikh but yet he cannot just hand the SIkhs our own state.

So to conclude, how can we expect a homeland if we are no longer those kind of Sikhs that were last seen in the Sikh Empire, sure we may be good at praying but now the second arm of Sikhism (martial) is just symbolic?

84 showed us what would happen if we try and fight in modern times because as I said we are no longer one (caste prevailes), we are out numbered by the Indian army and any other attempt from us would go along the lines of terrorism.

So to me it looks like, we should just do our best in our own capacity to achieve good jobs and get on with life. What do you think?

 
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Dear Badshah ji

Just curious...

So what would you say is more important in Sikhism and to you?
Spiritual progress or military progress?

You dont see the point..... up-to the end of the Sikh Empire being a baptized Sikh meant something and everything made sense.

Now in 2010, if you have everthing symbolic then naturally people will question, oh so what the point of this or that because now these things make no sense.

Let me give you an example...... Sikh Empire sikh gets baptized and trained to use 5Ks and be spiritual so that means you are Saint Soldier

Today, what is the meaning of taking Amrit if the K's are only symbolic, who wants to be a sybolic SIkh? So thats why sybols gets challenged by todays Sikhs as they cannot understand them. You cannot use stories from almost 100 years ago of brave warrior sikhs to convince someone to wear "symbols" in 2010

Dear Badshah Ji

You are correct...I don't see the point

Sikh Empire Sikh = Saint Soldier

2010 Sikh = 50% Saint, 50% Symbolic (unless you join the army and they let you wear 5K's)

Dear Badshah Ji

I'm a bit of a pragmatist at times and would humbly suggest that if the Gurus said something is important then it is important and that is the only reason, in Sikhism, that it should be important
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=33201

Historical profile, whilst interesting, should not be as important

Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=33201
Good point re role models and I think they are role models today, especially in the Military forces in USA for example, where you have the "full 5K Sikh" in active duty

I agree with you but look, you put missles on a F15 fighter plane so that it can use them

So now if we put a kirpan on a sikh its simply symbolic, does that mean its of no use?

Dear Badshah Ji

There is undoubtedly a proud military heritage that should continue to be remembered with pride

The Kirpan is a more subtle, skilful and elegant weapon from a different time ...whereas today we have missiles and guns.....we also have laws in most countries around carrying such things on our person...
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=33201
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=33201

I have some sympathy with what you are saying....but we are where we are...

I think there should be two tiers of Sikhs in this day and age

1. Spirtual sikhs (do naam jap all day and seva to community)
2. Saint soldiers (pray but enrol into the army)

Now that makes sense to me..... with the kirpan replaced with a gun in point 2, obviously kachera modified for all weather conditions and movement