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Hard Talk, Hard Hearts, Heartache: Gaza

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 27-Mar-2009, 03:49 AM
Narayanjot Kaur's Avatar Narayanjot Kaur Narayanjot Kaur is offline
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Hard Talk, Hard Hearts, Heartache: Gaza

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On behalf of forum member VaheguruSeekr ji -- Something to consider

Israel troops admit Gaza abuses
Israel frequently claims to possess the most moral army in the world.

An Israeli military college has printed damning soldiers' accounts of the killing of civilians and vandalism during recent operations in Gaza.
One account tells of a sniper killing a mother and children at close range whom troops had told to leave their home.

Another speaker at the seminar described what he saw as the "cold blooded murder" of a Palestinian woman.

The army has defended its conduct during the Gaza offensive but said it would investigate the testimonies.

The Israeli army has said it will investigate the soldiers' accounts. The testimonies were published by the military academy at Oranim College. Graduates of the academy, who had served in Gaza, were speaking to new recruits at a seminar.


The climate in general [was that] lives of Palestinians are much, much less important than the lives of our soldiers
Soldier testimony "[The testimonies] conveyed an atmosphere in which one feels entitled to use unrestricted force against Palestinians," academy director Dany Zamir told public radio.

Heavy civilian casualties during the three-week operation which ended in the blockaded coastal strip on 18 January provoked an international outcry.

Correspondents say the testimonies undermine Israel's claims that troops took care to protect non-combatants and accusations that Hamas militants were responsible for putting civilians into harm's way.

'Less important'
The Palestinian woman and two of her children were allegedly shot after they misunderstood instructions about which way to walk having been ordered out of their home by troops.

"The climate in general... I don't know how to describe it.... the lives of Palestinians, let's say, are much, much less important than the lives of our soldiers," an infantry squad leader is quoted saying. In another cited case, a commander ordered troops to kill an elderly woman walking on a road, even though she was easily identifiable and clearly not a threat.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/hard-talk/24401-hard-talk-hard-hearts-heartache-gaza.html

Testimonies, which were given by combat pilots and infantry soldiers, also included allegations of unnecessary destruction of Palestinian property. "We would throw everything out of the windows to make room and order. Everything... Refrigerators, plates, furniture. The order was to throw all of the house's contents outside," a soldier said.

One non-commissioned officer related at the seminar that an old woman crossing a main road was shot by soldiers. "I don't know whether she was suspicious, not suspicious, I don't know her story… I do know that my officer sent people to the roof in order to take her out… It was cold-blooded murder," he said.

The transcript of the session for the college's Yitzhak Rabin pre-military course, which was held last month, appeared in a newsletter published by the academy. Israeli human rights groups have criticised the military for failing to properly investigate violations of the laws of war in Gaza despite plenty of evidence of possible war crimes.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24401

'Moral army'
The soldiers' testimonies also reportedly told of an unusually high intervention by military and non-military rabbis, who circulated pamphlets describing the war in religious terminology.

Palestinian civilians paid a heavy price during the three-week Israeli operation. "All the articles had one clear message," one soldier said. "We are the people of Israel, we arrived in the country almost by miracle, now we need to fight to uproot the gentiles who interfere with re-conquering the Holy Land." "Many soldiers' feelings were that this was a war of religion," he added.

Defence Minister Ehud Barak told Israel Radio that the findings would be examined seriously. "I still say we have the most moral army in the world. Of course there may be exceptions but I have absolutely no doubt this will be inspected on a case-by-case basis," he said.

Medical authorities say more than 1,300 Palestinians were killed during Israel's 22-day operation, including some 440 children, 110 women, and dozens of elderly people.
The stated aim was to curb rocket and mortar fire by militants from Gaza. Thirteen Israelis, including three civilians were killed.

Source BBC NEWS | Middle East | Israel troops admit Gaza abuses





 
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 27-Mar-2009, 08:22 AM
Gyani Jarnail Singh's Avatar Gyani Jarnail Singh Gyani Jarnail Singh is offline
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Re: Hard Talk, Hard Hearts, Heartache: Gaza

Sad...very sad indeed.
War..and especially one that has gone on for the past 60 years...takes a huge toll on everyone involved..
and emotionally tired men often lose their sense of fairness/spirituality/compassion etc..and begin to see everyone as the enemy...REMEMBER...How the Governor of Sirhind..Ordered the brutal murder of the chhotteh sahibzadehs.....the INNOCENT FACES of the 5 year old Zorawar Singh and 7 year old Fateh Singh didnt strike any chord of compassion in anyone......except the Nawab of Malerjotla !! As far as they were all concerned..these children were the sons of the Mortal enemy of the State..and must be destroyed. The Old GRANDMOTHER..mata gujree was also murdered in the same situation..MOTHER of the Enemy of the State !! Imagine a 70 year old grandmother..and 5/7 year old children..enemies of the state !! to be buried ALIVE in a Brick Wall... IF that was to happen TODAY...wouldnt that be all over the Google/CNN/CBN/BBC...pictures of the Wall and all ?? Would there be any "blame" on anyone ?? or JUSTIFICATIONS..loudly proclaimed by either side...Strange ? NOT REALLY......Similar things happened in 1984..all over Punjab..Delhi..Kanpur..etc etc...in the World's BIGGEST democracy...
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24401
The "State of Israel " lives in hourly danger of exploding bombs,,suicide bombers..rockets...calls to drive the Isrealis into the SEA..rise daily from its neighbours...i wonder how they sleep at night...Continous War for 60 years.... BOTH HANDS are needed to CLAP.....Who cries for the innocents ?? depends on ones religion...politics...?? and so many other things....NO ONE is REALLY "neutral"
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 28-Mar-2009, 06:25 AM
mahanbir singh's Avatar mahanbir singh mahanbir singh is offline
 
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Re: Hard Talk, Hard Hearts, Heartache: Gaza

we need loud thinkers & protestors to stop this nonesense.
what big powers are doing? They see the innocent killings & do nothing.They just watch the brutal killings. This is not a sign of humanity but insanity.
We all talk about peace but we hardly do any thing to work for peace.
All this blood shed is in the name of a religion or a peice of land or what?
Cant we solve any problem without guns, bombs & battels?
Man has made so much advance in war technology & economy & agriculture but remains stupid as it has not advanced in the field of Spirtuality.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24401
Man fail to recognize that we all are one.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24401
MANAS KI JAT SBHEY EKE PAHICHANBO THE GIVEN BY GURU GOBIND SINGH JI HAS FALLEN ON DEAF EARS.
As long as man does not change his beliefs that we are one man's behaviour will not change.
Behaviours dont change with bombs & battles. They change with change of beliefs. May God us wisdom to think & act as we all are one. EK PITA EKAS KE HUM BARAK.
WITH LOVE
MAHANBIR SINGH
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 28-Mar-2009, 14:40 PM
Gyani Jarnail Singh's Avatar Gyani Jarnail Singh Gyani Jarnail Singh is offline
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Re: Hard Talk, Hard Hearts, Heartache: Gaza

Once it was called the "Indian Sub Continent"...for the sake of "peace' it was divided into TWO !! Did Peace come..NO..but THREE WARS did ....and then it was further divided into THREE....did peace come..NO...Further WARS are on the cards...SRI Lanka..civil war...Pakistan..exploding bombs in mosques kill own co-religionists......Afghanistan...war...1862 China invaded and grabbed large tracts of Indian Land..a further Major WAR of Aggression is expected from way of Tibet in 2017 (Indian Intelligence reports)...while war rages on in Southern Phillipines..Mindanao..in Souther Thailand..in Middle east...in Timor..in Sumatra Indonesia...in the South Americas..in Europe..in Russia..
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24401
And MAN continues to destroy the planet..with green house emisiions..depleting the ozone layer..depleting the fossil fuels....pollution...depleting the fresh water resources...
Aggressive Religious Fanatics continue their overzealous converisons and subversions...I pity the Mother Earth and its Inhabitants...Cry my Beloved Earth..CRY
ONLY the Teachings of the One Truly Universal Scripture..Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji can change these attitudes and bring real peace....but SIKHS continue to "enforce copyright" issues on the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and refuse to lift the covers of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji so that its GYAAN can shine forth..we have the Lighthouse..but we refuse to open the glass windows..Manas ki Jaat ek Pehchanbo ?? We even refuse to let the SIKHS be "EK JAAT"..what about the entire humanity ?? Is there hope ?? Hope springs eternal..
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 28-Mar-2009, 21:44 PM
Tejwant Singh's Avatar Tejwant Singh Tejwant Singh is offline
 
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Re: Hard Talk, Hard Hearts, Heartache: Gaza

When religions demark their territories, they show how worse they are in their mentality than the animals that do that with their urine. The name of the astronaut who wrote a book I read a long time ago slipped my mind at the moment. His journey to the space changed his whole perspective about humanity. What he saw was a small speck in this vast Milky Way and he wrote and I am paraphrasing it now, ' Do we have to bring the all humanity up here so that we can teach ourselves about our divisions and demarcations'?

It is not about who is a Sikh and who is not? Whose pug is more starched and whose whiskers have more mousse splattered on them?

It is all about the message that our Gurus taught us, showed us through their sacrifices, created the concept of langar and pangat, built Harmander Sahib with 4 doors to welcome all humanity and here we are letting our uneducated honchos- the so called the care takers of Sikhi sitting cross-legged on top of this treasure like snakes.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24401

The message of true love is more vital and urgent now than ever before.

As they say, one can awaken the one who is asleep but one can not awaken the sleepwalker.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24401

Let us, as SPNers take the first concrete steps to awaken the sleepwalkers and create a chain of love so our Gurus' message is linked universally to all especially at the places where it is needed the most, because lots of innocents are dying from hunger, war, neglect. Many are being raped by the marauders who are supposed to be their caretakers in places like Darfur and others.

Tejwant Singh

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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 02-Apr-2009, 06:52 AM
mahanbir singh's Avatar mahanbir singh mahanbir singh is offline
 
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Re: Hard Talk, Hard Hearts, Heartache: Gaza

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gyani Jarnail Singh View Post
Once it was called the "Indian Sub Continent"...for the sake of "peace' it was divided into TWO !! Did Peace come..NO..but THREE WARS did ....and then it was further divided into THREE....did peace come..NO...Further WARS are on the cards...SRI Lanka..civil war...Pakistan..exploding bombs in mosques kill own co-religionists......Afghanistan...war...1862 China invaded and grabbed large tracts of Indian Land..a further Major WAR of Aggression is expected from way of Tibet in 2017 (Indian Intelligence reports)...while war rages on in Southern Phillipines..Mindanao..in Souther Thailand..in Middle east...in Timor..in Sumatra Indonesia...in the South Americas..in Europe..in Russia..
And MAN continues to destroy the planet..with green house emisiions..depleting the ozone layer..depleting the fossil fuels....pollution...depleting the fresh water resources...
Aggressive Religious Fanatics continue their overzealous converisons and subversions...I pity the Mother Earth and its Inhabitants...Cry my Beloved Earth..CRY
ONLY the Teachings of the One Truly Universal Scripture..Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji can change these attitudes and bring real peace....but SIKHS continue to "enforce copyright" issues on the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and refuse to lift the covers of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji so that its GYAAN can shine forth..we have the Lighthouse..but we refuse to open the glass windows..Manas ki Jaat ek Pehchanbo ?? We even refuse to let the SIKHS be "EK JAAT"..what about the entire humanity ?? Is there hope ?? Hope springs eternal..
piarey Gyani ji,
You have beutifull described what is going on in the world
You are absolutely right when you say that teachihgs of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji change the attitudes.
Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji IS A LIGHT HOUSE FOR THE ENTIRE WORLD.
WE HAVE PUSHED THE LIGHT HOUSE UNDER THE BUSHEL. IT WAS MEANT TO BE HUNG ON THE MOUNTAIN TOP SO THAT EVERY ONE CAN SEE THE LIGHT.
WHEN WE SIKHS OURSELVES DO NOT OPEN THE PAGES OF Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji HOW CAN WE SHOW THE LIGHT TO OTHERS?
THERE IS NO GOOD PARCHARAK OR KATHAKAR WHO CAN SPREAD THE MESSAGE.
WITH SO MUCH MONEY & RESOURCES AT OUR DISPOSAL WE ARE DOING NOTHING.
WE LISTEN TO GOOD KIRTAN BUT WE HAVE NO INTEREST IN GOOD SERMONS .
I in my small way speak in Gurdwaras & teach the message of ONENESS.
I have just returnes from Melbourne where i was asked to do Katha. i made it a point to REMIND the SADH SANGAT the concept of ONENESS & LOVENESS.
WE ALL ARE TECHERS. LET US TEACH OUR CHILDREN FIRST.THEN THE FAMILY & FRIENDS THEN THE COMMUNITY & THEN THE WHOLE HUMANITY.
WE MUST TEACH GUMUKHI , OUR MOTHER TONGUE. IT IS UNFORTUNATE THAT ENGLISH BEING A COMMON LANGUAGE OF THE WORLD WE ARE NOT TEACHING OURSELVES THE LANGUAGE OF OUR GURUS TO EXACTLY KNOW THE FEELINGS OF OUR GURUS THRU READING OF GURBANI OURSELVES RATHER THAN ENGLISH TRANSLATION OR TRANSLITERATION/
I FIND A LARGE % OF SIKHS DO NOT KNOW ONE AKHAR OF GURMUKHI.
HOW WE CAN DIP IN THE SAROVAR OF NECTAR OF GURBANI & DRINK THE AMRIT.

Last edited by mahanbir singh; 02-Apr-2009 at 07:05 AM. Reason: UNFINISHED WHAT I WAS WRITTING
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 02-Apr-2009, 20:11 PM
Archived_member7's Avatar Archived_member7 Archived_member7 is offline
 
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Re: Hard Talk, Hard Hearts, Heartache: Gaza

Lets also see the other side of the story before we blame Israel



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Old 02-Apr-2009, 20:28 PM
Archived_member7's Avatar Archived_member7 Archived_member7 is offline
 
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Re: Hard Talk, Hard Hearts, Heartache: Gaza


Back in June, 2008, Egypt helped broker a 6-month cease-fire agreement between Israel and Hamas, the ruling body in the Gaza Strip. Though the cease-fire was broken several times by both sides, it largely held. Toward the end of the cease-fire in December, Israel, while closing Gaza's borders since November, indicated that it might extend the agreement, if Hamas ceased all Qassam rocket attacks. Qassam rockets are the crude but deadly homemade missiles often launched towards Israeli territory (over 3,000 times in 2008 alone). Hamas leaders, angered by the blockade and seemingly little political headway made over the past 6 months, recently stepped up rocket attacks on Israel once again. Israel has now responded with five days (so far) of air attacks and Naval bombardment on Gaza, resulting in over 350 dead, nearly 1,500 wounded and countless buildings and smugglers' tunnnels destroyed. Hamas has threatened to increase the rocket attacks send suicide bombers into Israel in retaliation, and Israel is massing troops and tanks around Gaza for a possible ground assault. (37 photos total)

A trail of smoke is seen after the launch of a rocket from the northern Gaza Strip aimed towards Israel on December 27, 2008. (REUTERS/Baz Ratner)




2
Masked Palestinian militants from Islamic Jihad run with homemade rockets to put in place before later firing them into Israel on the outskirts of Gaza City, Saturday, Dec. 20, 2008. (AP Photo/Ashraf Amra) #




3
Masked Palestinian militants from Islamic Jihad place homemade rockets before later firing them into Israel on the outskirts of Gaza City, Saturday, Dec. 20, 2008. (AP Photo/Ashraf Amra) #
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24401




4
A Palestinian man inspects the damage where a rocket fired by Palestinian militants - intended for a target in Israel - accidentally hit a building in Gaza City, Wednesday, Dec. 24, 2008. Palestinian Iyad Dremly, who works for the Palestinian Center for Conflict Resolution, was injured in the explosion, Palestinian sources said. (AP Photo/Adel Hana) #




5
An Israeli Apache helicopter launches a missile during an attack inside the northern Gaza Strip on December 29, 2008 as seen from the Israeli-Gaza border. (JACK GUEZ/AFP/Getty Images) #




6
Smoke rises above Gaza after another Israeli air strike on a Hamas target, December 29, 2008 along Israel's side of the Gaza border. (Uriel Sinai/Getty Images) #




7
Wounded Palestinians are treated on the floor of crowded Kamal Edwan hospital in Beit Lahia in the northern Gaza Strip on December 29, 2008, following an Israeli air strike on the nearby Jabalia refugee camp. Israeli tanks massed at the Gaza border today as warplanes continued pounding Hamas targets in the densely populated enclave. (MOHAMMED ABED/AFP/Getty Images) #




8
Samera Baalusha (34) (right) sits with her daughter Eman (15) and surviving son Mohamad (15 months) while waiting to see the body of her 4-year-old daughter Jawaher Baalusha during the funeral held for Jawher and her four other sisters who were all killed in an Israeli missile strike, on December 29, 2008 in the Jebaliya refugee camp, in the northern Gaza Strip. Jawher Baalusha and her sisters were killed during an Israeli air raid while they were sleeping together in their bedroom. Medics stated that the raid had targeted a mosque near their home in Jabalia. (Abid Katib/Getty Images) #



Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24401

9
An Israeli F15 fighter flies over the northern Israeli-Gaza Strip border on December 28, 2008. (JACK GUEZ/AFP/Getty Images) #




10
Smoke billows from a targeted location in the northern Gaza Strip following an Israeli air raid, as seen from the Israeli-Gaza border on December 30, 2008. (JACK GUEZ/AFP/Getty Images) #






Warning:
This image contains graphic
or objectionable content

click here to view it.
11
Many bodies lie outside the Hamas police headquarters following an Israeli air strike in Gaza City on December 27, 2008. (MOHAMMED ABED/AFP/Getty Images) #




12
Palestinian firefighters try to extinguish flames at a medical warehouse after an Israeli airstrike targeted at a fuel tank nearby in the southern Gaza Strip town of Rafah on Sunday, Dec. 28, 2008. Israel widened its deadliest-ever air offensive against Gaza's Hamas rulers Sunday, pounding Hamas targets, smugglers' tunnels and a central prison. (AP Photo/Xinhua) #




13
Israelis take cover during a rocket warning siren in the southern Israeli town of Ashkelon, Monday Dec. 29, 2008. (AP Photo / Tsafrir Abayov) #




14
Smoke rises after an Israel air strike in Gaza Strip December 28, 2008. Israel launched air strikes on Gaza for a second successive day on Sunday, piling pressure on Hamas. (REUTERS/Ibraheem Abu Mustafa) #




15
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Old 02-Apr-2009, 20:37 PM
Narayanjot Kaur's Avatar Narayanjot Kaur Narayanjot Kaur is offline
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Re: Hard Talk, Hard Hearts, Heartache: Gaza

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