what is wrong

Was It Pre destined?

A question that has been my constant companion for quite some time is “ As to why do we do wrong or commit something that is branded as wrong as per sikhi”.

I have been asking this from many persons but all of them laughed at and never answered. The search is on. It has been stated that everything is as per destiny and most rather all of things are preordained. Let us have a look as to how Gurbani tells us.

From the Word, comes destiny that is written on one's forehead[1]. More so, even the union with Him, and separation from Him, come by His Will. We come to receive what is written in our destiny.[2] Those who have not sought the Sanctuary of the True Guru and the Sangat, the Holy Congregation-cursed are their lives, and cursed are their hopes of life[3] but those humble servants of the Lord who have attained the Company of the True Guru, have pre-ordained destiny inscribed on their foreheads[4]. By destiny, I shall meet with the Guru. Those who have such destiny come to meet the True Guru[5]. I repeat that it is by perfect good fortune, one meets the True Guru when one's destiny shows this.[6] Even same can be said to be meeting the Sangat or the holy congregation.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/gurmat-vichaar/15753-what-is-wrong.html
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=15753

We also enter into the realm of the Lord's Love if that is pre ordained[7]. The Flower and the Fruit of the Lord's Love are obtained by destiny only.[8] We all act according to the pre-ordained destiny that no one can erase[9].
No one shall be absorbed in His love unless it is pre-ordained. Even those Gurmukhs who pre-ordained destiny written on their foreheads will remain absorbed in the Lord's Love[10].
Everything seems to be pre-destined. Right from the meeting of the Guru and remembering Him and finally getting out of the mess of Maya. It all seems to be under the wider game plan of the nature. Thus our all actions towards religion and spirituality are pre destined. We do not seem to possess any free will. All that we can do is to act per the Gurmat and expect nothing or hope for nothing.

However, doing anything that may not be approved by Gurmat will also fall with in the Zone of something pre destined. In that case why should one believe that
one can get out of the re-incarnation cycle out Of turn. He must have planned something for us in any case as to when we shall be out of these incarnations. I shall be grateful If some one can give a take of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as to how to bring destiny in our favor so that we also get something as early as possible. Is there anything in Gurmat that suggests that one can get something out Of turn.

The question thus boils down as to whether I have the capacity to go out of my powers and do something that is not pre- destined. If not, then what ever I do shall be as per Destiny. Even If it is wrong it will be as per destiny. Thus the future Lives will also get decided on the basis of the present actions that were completely pre-destined. Where is the role of poor intellect to improve upon?

I hope even that I write to you is also predestined. If so what is the worth of mankind to act as per that is not pre-destioned. Life shall continue as per pre decided pattern and shall take me as per that is pre destined and the same shall be applicable to most of us or rather all of us.

The basic question that remains to be answered is that we act 'wrong' because it is pre destined. How can we say that all goods are pre destined and all bads are our doing. ?

Would like to be guided.






[1]AKrw isir sMjogu vKwix(4-8, jpu, mÚ 1)

[2] sMjogu ivjogu duie kwr clwvihlyKy Awvih Bwg ] (6-19, jpu, mÚ 1)

[3] jo siqgur srix sMgiq nhI Awey iDRgu jIvy iDRgu jIvwis ]3] (10-6, gUjrI, mÚ 4)

[4] ijn hir jn siqgur sMgiq pweI iqn Duir msqik iliKAw ilKwis ] (10-7, gUjrI, mÚ 4)

[5] ijn kau pUrib iliKAw iqn sqguru imilAw Awie ]4] (27-10, isrIrwgu, mÚ 3)

[6] pUrY Bwig sqguru imlY jw BwgY kw audau hoie ] (31-13, isrIrwgu, mÚ 3)

[7]pUrib ilKq ilKy guru pwieAw min hir ilv mMfl mMfw hy ]1] (13-9, gauVI pUrbI, mÚ

[8]Pulu Bwau Plu iliKAw pwie ] (25-14, isrIrwgu, mÚ 1)

[9] pUrib iliKAw kmwvxw koie n mytxhwru ]3] (27-8, isrIrwgu, mÚ 3)

[10] Duir msqik ijn kau iliKAw sy gurmuiK rhy ilv lwie ]1] rhwau ] (27-15, isrIrwgu, mÚ 3)

 
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As long as the destiny written upon my forehead was not activated, I wandered around lost, running in all directions.
I was drowning in the horrible world-ocean of this Dark Age of Kali Yuga, and my remorse would never have ended.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=15753
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=15753
O Mat'huraa, consider this essential truth: to save the world, the Lord INCARNATED Himself.

Whoever meditates on Guru Arjun Dayv, shall not have to pass through the painful womb of reincarnation ever again. ||6||(ang 1409)

I think the quote at ang 1409 should give some kind Of an answer. Many learned will also opine.

Respected Saadh Sangat Ji,

Quote:

Originally Posted by gogi “ As to why do we do wrong or commit something that is branded as wrong as per sikhi”.

answer to this is -ONE IS NOT FOLLOWING GURU JI's WORD- NOT LIVING IN HUKAM........




paapi punni aakhan naahi kar kar karna likh le jah aapey beej aapey hi khah.............

munda santokh saram pat jholi dhyaan ki kareh bhibhoot
khintha kaal kuaari kayaa jugat dandaa parteet.............

(japuji sahib, we read it everyday)

and many many more Guru Ji's WORD.............

Eh tan dharti beej karma karo salil apaaoo sarangpani
Man kirsaan riday jamaai le…………………

Amal kar dharti beej sabdo kare…………………..


this is what me neech thinks, Dhan Dhan Guru JI answers every possible question..................

humbly asking for everybody's forgiveness

Life is a progression. Your destiny is that you will die, but you dont know how you will die this is progression. If I study hard Im destined to learn, but will i be able to teach what I have learned that would be progression. Simply when it comes to other faiths aswell. Jesus was destined to be born, but they also say he was tempted. Now had he followed his temptations he would have progressed to sin and not be destined to be a savour. Its a balance, i'd say of pregression then of the fruits you receive you are destined. Just like if I train and workout, I'll have a good body, its the progression of the training that has led me to have the good body destined. No doubt if you play with fire your bound to get burned. If it makes sense sound, if not fine!!! Will please let me know if the gurbarni comes out with the same answer please!! Common sense when you look at it this way? ainit??

I think the best way of this would be to see if 'Gurbani' offers any 'free- will' to human being . If the answere is yes, one can state that the man had his choice to do the thing in the best manner to his spritual advantage. If the answer is other wise , it can be stated that there is no chouce except to do as per gurmat and and leave everything to the Almighty. It is also fairly well known that Our theory Of Karma is not well defined and pointed.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=15753
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=15753

Destiny cannot be changed. It has been stated more than 100 places and more than 10 places have already been quoted in the question. Surinder ji, ,if it is convenient to her, may kindly like to point if there is some element Of free will in human actions as pewr 'Gurbani'.

There must be some free will. Think about it, if there is no free will then there cant be any religion faith or anything. Whats the point of the gurus teaching anything for we cant change as we are destined. The will of god. So to change your ideas to think the way they have taught you to think would also be against the will of god as well, wouldnt it, as you are breaking the mould of who you are and changing your ways. Breaking your destiny and then gods will! Whats the point in working! Whats the point in anything!! All stops as we are waiting for destiny. To furfill a destiny you must have some free will otherwise i guess you would stay seated wherever you are! I dont know I hope gurbarni has some answers otherwise its all over isnt it!!!

Respected and Righteous Roopk Ji,

What me neech can tell you, you know all.... Today's Hukamnaama says it all OUTLOUD anyways........................
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=15753
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=15753

after reading your post in this thread and after reading respected hukamnaama, me neech thinks that it all depends on what is your definition of FREEWILL.


forgive me please

Respected Saadh Sangat Ji,

Guru Sahib has said this many times- jo jo beejay so luney, in different ways.In Japji Sahib Guru Sahib Ji tells us how to live our life. And the same is repeated again and again all the way in Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaaj. If someone still have questions, then we neech can only pray for them. Very sorry if it hurts anybody in any manner. Satguru Di agyaa da paalan- Living His Willand His Will is described starting the very First Panna of Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.If after being a true Sikh, a person doesn't follow that, what can somebody do???????

like:


karna ta aap hi paina hai, mannana ta aap hi paina hai, kise ne ta aa ke nahee karnaa .......sahmne pakki pakaaee pai hai, chak ke khaani ta aap hi paini hai.....

ikv sicAwrw hoeIAY ikv kUVY qutY pwil ]hukim rjweI clxw nwnk iliKAw nwil ]
hukmY AMdir sBu ko bwhir hukm n koie ]nwnk hukmY jy buJY q haumY khY n koie ]

kQnw kQI n AwvY qoit ]kiQ kiQ kQI kotI koit koit ]dydw dy lYdy Qik pwih ]jugw jugMqir KwhI Kwih ]hukmI hukmu clwey rwhu ]nwnk ivgsY vyprvwhu ]swcw swihbu swcu nwie BwiKAw Bwau Apwru ]AwKih mMgih dyih dyih dwiq kry dwqwru ]Pyir ik AgY rKIAY ijqu idsY drbwru ]muhO ik bolxu bolIAY ijqu suix Dry ipAwru ]AMimRq vylw scu nwau vifAweI vIcwru ]krmI AwvY kpVw ndrI moKu duAwru ]nwnk eyvY jwxIAY sBu Awpy sicAwru ]

Awpy Awip inrMjnu soie ]ijin syivAw iqin pwieAw mwnu ]nwnk gwvIAY guxI inDwnu ]gwvIAY suxIAY min rKIAY Bwau ]

jyqI isriT aupweI vyKw ivxu krmw ik imlY leI ]miq ivic rqn jvwhr mwixk jy iek gur kI isK suxI]

jy iqsu ndir n AwveI q vwq n puCY ky ]kItw AMdir kItu kir dosI dosu Dry ]nwnk inrguix guxu kry guxvMiqAw guxu dy ]qyhw koie n suJeI ij iqsu guxu koie kry ]..


.......................If after reading all this a Sikh does not understand what Guru Ji is talking about, then me neech can only remember Guru Ji's words:

kbIr swcw siqguru ikAw krY jau isKw mih cUk ]
AMDy eyk n lwgeI ijau bWsu bjweIAY PUk]


humbly asking for everybody's forgiveness



rwj lIlw qyrY nwim bnweI ]jogu binAw qyrw kIrqnu gweI ]1]srb suKw bny qyrY El@Y ]BRm ky prdy siqgur Kol@y ]1] rhwau ]hukmu bUiJ rMg rs mwxy ]siqgur syvw mhw inrbwxy ]3]ijin qUM jwqw so igrsq audwsI prvwxu ]nwim rqw soeI inrbwxu ]2]jw kau imilE nwmu inDwnw ]Bniq nwnk qw kw pUr Kjwnw ]4]

__________________

another one of Guru Ji's word that is telling what to do for us moors:

gauVI cyqI mhlw 1 ] AauKD mMqR mUlu mn eykY jy kir idRVu icqu kIjY ry ] jnm jnm ky pwp krm ky kwtnhwrw lIjY ry ]1] mn eyko swihbu BweI ry ] qyry qIin guxw sMswir smwvih AlKu n lKxw jweI ry ]1] rhwau ] skr KMfu mwieAw qin mITI hm qau pMf aucweI ry ] rwiq AnyrI sUJis nwhI lju tUkis mUsw BweI ry ]2] mnmuiK krih qyqw duKu lwgY gurmuiK imlY vfweI ry ] jo iqin kIAw soeI hoAw ikrqu n myitAw jweI ry ]3] suBr Bry n hovih aUxy jo rwqy rMgu lweI ry ] iqn kI pMk hovY jy nwnku qau mUVw ikCu pweI ry ]4]

gauVI cyqI mhlw 1 ] AauKD mMqR mUlu mn eykY jy kir idRVu icqu kIjY ry ] jnm jnm ky pwp krm ky kwtnhwrw lIjY ry ]1] mn eyko swihbu BweI ry ] qyry qIin guxw sMswir smwvih AlKu n lKxw jweI ry ]1] rhwau ] skr KMfu mwieAw qin mITI hm qau pMf aucweI ry ] rwiq AnyrI sUJis nwhI lju tUkis mUsw BweI ry ]2] mnmuiK krih qyqw duKu lwgY gurmuiK imlY vfweI ry ] jo iqin kIAw soeI hoAw ikrqu n myitAw jweI ry ]3] suBr Bry n hovih aUxy jo rwqy rMgu lweI ry ] iqn kI pMk hovY jy nwnku qau mUVw ikCu pweI ry ]4]

Gurmukhi Translations(Bhai Sahib Bhai Sahib Singh Ji):



English Translations(SikhiToTHeMax):


humbly asking for everybody's forgiveness