Gurbani Vyakaran - Punjabi Grammar

Perhaps worth noting that all work done many centuries after Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji was composed are our attempts and of some esteemed scholars like Prof. Sahib Singh ji and others. Languages change with times so we need to keep ourselves in tune to the message versus get stuck in comparing who is best at defining what grammatical rules or books our Guru ji's or older Bhagats like Kabir ji used in their compositions or not.

Let us not get carried away and lose sight that it is Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji that we are trying to understand as written and as Guru ji wanted us to read and understand it. Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is not written for any elite even though the learned one's can help in making it more right to understand and easy to understand.

The following quick references for Punjabi Grammar including Prof. Sahib Singh ji's Vyakaran,



I have uploaded the book in side-by-side two facing pages format per the URL below,
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/gurbani-grammar-vyakaran/38429-gurbani-vyakaran-punjabi-grammar.html
http://s802.photobucket.com/albums/y...ni%20Vyakaran/

General Punjabi Grammar for all to find help in perhaps can be also of great use as follows,
http://punjabi.aglsoft.com/punjabi/learngrammar/

It will be great to learn by quoting complete sabads and then having a discourse. Just a suggestion.

Let us go.

Sat Sri Akal.

PS: I believe it is important to note that there are not different Grammars for Punjabi and Gurbani. The differences of note could only be observed, if such exist, due to the writings in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji being almost 600+ years old (Kabir ji) versus the Punjabi in the days of Guru ji's (500 years ago) and Punjabi of today. First and foremost it should be all considered Punjabi but of different times.

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It would be incorrect to consider the application of grammar as Punjabi Grammar.in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
It is important to understand that Punjabi is a Language not the script.The application of grammar is for the script only and the script is Gurmukhi and is indepependent of Language in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji .
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38429
We can find Maharshtrian Language in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as in the Banee of Bhagat NAMDEV Ji but in Gurmukhi script We can find langugaes of nealy all states across India in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji but in Gurmukhi script.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38429
We can see that the original Kabir Banee is not in Punjabi language.The whole language of Kabi Banee is from NORTh EAST area of India.And the same Banee has been included in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji in Gurmukhi script not in Punjabi language.

So the grammar is of the SCRIPT not Of the language in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

These are my personal observations and views.

Prakash.s.Bagga

Prakash.S.Bagga ji show us how the rules of Punjabi Grammar are different from Gurbani Grammar by examples please. Otherwise your post tells me nothing.

There are vocabularies from various regions, even other languages but well understood as written in Punjabi. Are you telling me Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is not written in Punjabi or language of the greater Punjab of the times? Minor dialect differences are well within the realm of understanding in the Punjabi context that these are included in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

If you do not know Punjabi language, you cannot understand Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji even if you pronounce it. Others have to translate or do exposition for you. Language is not just grammar. It is Alphabet/script, grammar and vocabulary.

To me Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji reads and sounds as Punjabi as I have ever learned or known. I personally have no interest in trying to relate it to Sanskrit, Hindi, Devnagri, etc., beyond simple clarification of a word or such that may be used. Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji grammar is not Sanskrit or any other like Devnagri, Hindi, and other and as such these are just diversions for me. You may fancy this kind of stuff but I don't as this for me is a sure way of making Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as though for the elite and not the common man. By necessity so leading to or requiring preachers and pandit look alikes. We know how many have used this guise to destroy the messages of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji or take advantage by deriving self serving meanings. May Sikhism and Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji be saved from such charlatans.

Sat Sri Akal.

I have to agree with Ambarsariah ji..its PUNJABI GRAMMAR and Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji uses PUNJABI GRAMMAR. Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is written in PUNJABI....the Peoples Language as opposed to others. Grammars are for LANGUAGES..not scripts alone...for example Malay language has a Grammar but NO SCRIPT. The Only thing unique is Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is UNIQUE...BUT its Part and parcel of PUNJABI LITERATURE/GREAT WRITING as well as GURU of Sikhs. IN fact many Jansanghi arya samajist HINDUS HATE PUNJABI solely becasue of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji...and call it the SIKH Language. For this reason alone thousnads of them STABBED their MOTHER TONGUE in her back by claiming they spoke HINDI ( in teatth punjabi..Mein Punjabi nahin Bolda..mein HINDU hun...whereas a Hindi speaker would say hum hindi mein baat kardeh hein hum hindu hein..). PUNJABI LANGUAGE in GURMUKHI SCRIPT actually SURVIVES solely becasue of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

when we translate/transliterate ENGLISH word KNIFE in say Gurmukhi Script we would write it as "Nife".. Nanna+Kanna+E+F and not even bother to write it as (K)Nanna+kanna+E+F !!! But when some write Gurbani from Gurmukhi in English they write the Punjabi word AA(siharee)D as...Ad(i)....and DISTORT the perfectly good Punjabi Word AAD into a Meaningless ADI...so AAD Granth becomes ADI GRANTH !! The SIHAREE in PUNJABI has absolutely no significance in English...its ONLY relevance is in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji context ONLY. Just as the SILENT "K" in KNIFE has no significance except in its Original Language...
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38429
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38429
i hope I am making sense..ha ha

Let's not complicate things. I think the whole idea of starting this thread is a very good one and it is to SIMPLIFY things, not complicate them.
As far as I know, the gurmukhi text is an important source of the punjabi of today.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38429
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38429
All languages can be spoken one way, but written in many different ways. We shouldn't confuse the issue by overlapping here.
I do believe as Gyani ji stated, that punjabi language survives today because of Sri guru granth sahib ji. If it were not for this, then even the written shahmukhi would still be more widespread today as it was previously.

Yes I agree there are examples where language and grammar are same but in many cases this is different also.Thus the rule of language and grammar being same is not same every where.
For Enlish Language one has English Grammar.Where there exist different language dilects there this language and grammar may be different.
in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji there are different language dialect in Gurmukhi script.This is the real character of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
The grammar of Punjabi language is different from that of Gurbani Grammar that is why you have different books on Gurbanee Grammar.
Without being prejudice one should see how Gurbanee grammar is different from Punjabi grammar.
Prakash.S.Bagga

In which script we write Punjabi language that is Gurmukhi.Do we have separate Punjabi Scriprt?
Prakash.S.Bagga

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Special Report Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38429 Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=38429 Editorial Op-Ed Save Gurmukhi to Save Punjabi Nanak Singh Nishter Tracing the links between scripts and languages, the author stresses the need to preserve and protect the Gurmukhi script. This article clearly indicates the difference between script and language. The article is dt 30.04.12 by Nashtar Singh Nishthar ji. Prakash.S.Bagga