Sikhism/Gurmatt Nankian Philosophy: A Totally New and Unique Path to the Creator

The Uniqueness of Guru nanak Ji Sahib's Nirmal Panth has always been regarded as either "subservient" to Hinduism/vedic philosophy or a side kick to Islam's monotheism philosophy or even worse..an amalgmation of Both !! Most Sikh scholars of repute have not been able to discard their Hindu/brahmin/vedic leanings to see Guru nanak Ji's GURMATT PATH as soemthing that is Totally NEW and UNIQUE in that Guru nanak ji totally REJECTED all previous philosophies, rituals, traditions, religious books, etc etc and Established His OWN clear and unique Path as the Gaddee Raah towards the Creator - a Super Duper Highway, with no "toll stops", no hang-ups and no restrictions. This Raah is open to all irrespective of race or creed , caste or social status, rich and the poor, black and the white..all that is required is Simple TRUTHFUL LIVING.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/essays-on-sikhism/24130-sikhism-gurmatt-nankian-philosophy-totally-new.html
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24130
Dr Baldev Singh Ji in this brilliant treatise brings this to the fore - in his usual forthright language.
The Sikh bulletin has devoted the Entire Issue for feb-March 2009 to this article. A worthwhile read indeed. See the Attachment for the Article. ***

 
Do share your immediate thoughts or reactions on this issue? We value your views! Login Now! or Sign Up Today! to share your views with us.. Gurfateh!

__________________
We hear with our ears but we listen with our minds.
Hearing the sound of a mantra is one thing - listening to it is another !

A very good read. Some 35 years ago Hardev S. Shergill became my guardian while I stayed in Vancouver for 6 months.

Giani Ji
I have gone through the article attached by you. I found it like churning the water.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24130

How far you accept the conclusion when he writes concept of Karma
soul, and savlation, 'For example the concept of God, incarnation of God, the caste system,

transmigration and karma, soul and salvation, hell and heaven, gods and goddesses, and idol worship were all swept into the dustbin.'
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24130
Best regards
Sahni Mohinder

The article makes me think we can have a healthy and prolonged discussion in this thread.

Baldev Singh is a controversial figure in Sikh circles. So it may not be a matter of who is right or who is wrong. Rather it may be that some interpretations of concepts like karma are clearly wrong given the wisdom of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj. And finding that which is closer to a correct understanding requires discussion and strong applications of bibek buddhi (as Mr. Shergill inspires us to do in his introduction to the article).

Here is an example of where good discussion can take place. I quote from the article, on Karma and reincarnation:

The superstructure of Varna Ashrama Dharma/caste system
is supported by karma and reincarnation (transmigration). In
other words, both karma and reincarnation are part of the
trilogy invented by the Brahmans and they both are designed
to justify the caste base factor. The Brahman invoked divine
sanctions to perpetuate the caste system for eternity. Hindu
scriptures proclaim that Prajapati (God) ordained the four
castes. This was followed by the invention of the doctrine of
"karma and reincarnation" to desensitize people’s sense of
justice and compassion against the atrocities committed on
the masses to enforce the caste system. According to the law
of karma, one reaps the fruit in this life for the deeds
performed in the previous life. So, if a person is subjected to
injustice and cruelty in this life, it is due to one’s own actions
in previous life, not due to the perpetrators of cruelty and
injustice.

There is no question in my mind these interpretations of karma and reincarnation were rejected by Guru Nanak. These meanings of karma and reincarnation cannot be separated from the caste system -- as given in the Law of Manu. Beings struggle, according to this view, for thousands of reincarnations at lower levels, in suffering, cleansing their karma until they are purified and move to the next level where they endure a different level of suffering. And the process starts all over again. Even Mahatma Ghandi advised the sudras to feel blessed by their suffering because this was their time to discover the gift of humility which would take them to the next level up. In other words, content yourself with your suffering because it is good for your soul. It is complete arrogance for someone who believes himself to be at a superior plane to tell the miserable masses to endure it because it is good for the soul.

Guru Nanak completely repudiated all of this. What is Mr. Baldev Singh saying? That the doctrine of karma and reincarnation enforced the rule of moral apathy among the low and moral arrogance among the high. Everyone had to stay stuck where they were. This arrogance was among other things the cause of endless suffering. The ideas of karma and reincarnation kept the social system revolving in one place and no one could escape "the fear of coming and going." What was missing from the equation was the idea of moral accountability.

The bull of dharma in metaphor was and is standing then and now on only one leg -- bearing the weight of the world's criminality. All forgetting that the Universal Sach was/is how dharma is regained.

In my opinion Baldev Singh is correct in his reading that Guru Nanak completely overturned the prevailing theories of karma and reincarnation. What is left open is whether there is another Nanakian understanding of karma and reincarnation, and what that might be. That will be a good discussion.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24130

My own reservations so far with the article pertain more to Baldev Singh's apparent "intellectualization" of the nature of hukam, dharma and the cosmic order. Intellectualization and bibek buddhi are not the same thing. So far I have not finished the article -- maybe Baldev ji will be more convincing to me in how he constructs the nature of buddhi in coming to an understanding of hukam, cosmic order, the nature of God.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24130

But I hope we can continue a discussion of the article. And use our buddhi so that future discussions do not become childish. I look forward to your continued interactions japjisahib04 ji because you are taking questions from your heart.

AAD JIO,

super brilliant and insightful.....how you managed to catch the beam of light in your palm astonishes yet gladdens me. Guru Ji has indeed "chosen" wisely...Some of us were simply born into Sikhi....others had sikhi thrust upon them ( in a nice way !!)....

Guru nanak Ji had the World's biggest "dustbin" and YES He and his successors threw a whole lot of utter rubbish into this...BUT most of us just cant resist the idea..of one look at the dustbin..and ..saying...what ?? This thrown here..this looks perfectly "good"..lets keep it for some future use....and then we "see" another so called "useful" thing..and then another..and we reclaim a whole lot back from the dustbin.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24130
Gurbani and the GURUS used the same words..BUT they had entirely NEW MEANINGS...for those Old words and concepts...WHY the Brahmin?Mannu "certifies" Karma is entirely different from the "karma" Guru Ji considers...Gurbaksh Singh kala Afghana has been condemned for this - he delved deeply into the whys and the hows of the Brahmin/Mannu mind control mechnaisms perpetuated to keep the Sudras and the others under their THUMB. In fact I would even go so far to say that the Heaven/Hell concepts are also founded on the premise of KEEPING CONTROL over the Masses - That is why the Communists call Religion the Opiate of the Masses (but I dont agree completley because the Commies throw OUT GOD as well - so they are only partly right !! AND they are Partly RIGHT because thats why the Sikh GURUS BANNED the PRIESTLY CLASS from Sikhism- its this Class that OPPRESSES..in the Name of GOD as is happening now in Sikhism - because our forefathers couldnt resist picking up things from the GURUS" DUSTBIN. Now the Priests and Hisgh Priests and Jathedars are back with a Vengeance to extract their pound of flesh from the Sikh masses just like their Brahmin/Prohit predecessors that Guru nanak condemned in Asa Di Vaar and relegated to the Dustbin.
the HEAVEN/SURG cooncept is to "reward"...the CARROT approach to pacify and control the masses and keep them subjugated. BUT not Everyone takes to the carrot approach..for these hardened souls there is the STICK..or Narak/Hell approach....Gurbani mentions the Famous SAW of Heaven in a Holy City..the Karwatt Arra..this was a saw placed on top of a deep well....and anyone wealthy enough to go to Heaven was offerred the "Once in a life time chance" to SIGN over all his welath to the Brahmin....and have his HEAD SAWED OFF..and thrown into the "well...to Heaven" !!
Guru Ji visited this place ...the SATEE practise was also nothing less than the naked way of grabbing properties of the dead person by getting rid of his wife..GURU JI Banned this as well...
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24130
IF we read GURBANI as intended by the GURUS..as intentioned by them...see their outlook...the BHAAV.... we will see clearly WHY a SIKH/GURSIKH/GURMUKH is not at all to be remotley "attracted" by "HEAVEN"..or scared of "HELL"...that is WHY the Sacred Gurbani repeats agian and again....a Gumukh DOES NOT DESIRE HEAVEN....he wants only MERGER with the Creator....SAME goes for karma, re-incarnation, migration, reclamation, 84 lakh joons etc etc etc....EVERYTIME Time and Time again..the BOTTOM LINE of GURUS TEACHING IS...."This Human janm is PRECIOUS..Once in a life time opportunity..unimaginably VALUABLE.... ONLY chance to MEET THE MAKER....merge with the MAKER..dont waste it... DONT WASTE IT....DONT WASTE IT..." The Gurus shabad may mention anything and everything..from heavens to hells..from Karmas to reincarnations to 84 lakh joons and migrations recycling etc etc BUT ALWAYS...the GURU RETURNS EMPHATICALLY to the CORE TEACHING..DONT WASTE THIS HUMAN BIRTH...use it to MERGE with thy maker. YOU WILL NOT GET A SECOND CHANCE. PERIOD.
Please continue to add to this discussion....

Gyani ji

You always crack me up... in about 4 words, and then I am helpless without fail~~~ Now this paragraph!

Guru Nanak Ji had the World's biggest "dustbin" and YES He and his successors threw a whole lot of utter rubbish into this...BUT most of us just cant resist the idea..of one look at the dustbin..and ..saying...what ?? This thrown here..this looks perfectly "good"..lets keep it for some future use....and then we "see" another so called "useful" thing..and then another..and we reclaim a whole lot back from the dustbin. (Gyani ji, previous post)
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24130
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24130

One thing I forgot to say earlier. For Guru Nanak, there was no high and there was no low. And that is another "useful" thing in the "dustbin." When people (not just Sikhs) see it, the idea of the high and the low, they say "this looks perfectly 'good' " and they can't let go of it.One million thanks.

Here is something posted a while back by forum membe VaheguruSeekr ji about Dogma inflexible beliefs. I thought I would post it here because it is relevant to this discussion.

Dogmas Versus the Science of Guru Nanak


It is amazing to see the strife amongst Sikh brethren, between the oldschoolers, who take Sikhi as one more belief system based on some dogmas which can not be questioned because questioning gives Sikhi a scientific approach.

Then there are others who want to question and find answers besides repeating and memorizing the Gurbani, the TRUE essence of the message in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. I include myself in the latter.
Source:: Sikh Sikhs Sikhism http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14565

First and foremost the question we should ask is, why this fear of the scientific approach when as Sikhs we live in the realm of NIRBHAU. Why reject something without even understanding it? Is this the role reversal of a Sikh who wants to wear a Janieu without questioning its meaning? We hope not.

Lets try to define what SIKHI is before we indulge in our obstinated view of Sikhi through our self created blinders and start mud slinging with fellowseekers who may have a different approach which is as old or as new as IK ONGKAAR, and that's of questioning in order to create perfect harmony within-Sahej- Gurmat Fulcrum.

Lots of us still refer to Sikhi as a religion, full of dogmas of dos and don'ts based on personalities like Judaism (Messiah in coming), Christianity(Jesus), Islam (Mohammed) and Hinduism (many deities personified as gods andgoddesses). We tend to compare sikhi with these religions, each of which claims to have the ONLY WAY to seek IK ONG KAAR. In other words all the above personality based religions are exclusive, enclosed by walls erected with bricksand mortar called dogmas. In order for them to lure the followers, they offer their exclusively concocted snake oil (secret recipe) to the potential recruits as the only ticket to an imaginary place called Heaven-eternal life. And those on the outside are guaranteed to go to an awful place deep in the earth(where all our riches in the form of minerals come from) called Hell-eternal torment. In order for the followers to get the full potential of the snake oil rub, they invented mechanical rituals which do not require any thought process thus making them feel as comfy as birds of a feather. This creates an environment of an exclusive - bigoted- group with its exclusive rituals - Water baptism, Hajj, praying 5 times, circumcision, animal and human sacrifice (Sati) and many more. These enclosed belief systems created their own Dos and Don’ts. As someone said about Christianity, which can also be applied to all dogmatic religions, "It is time for all spiritual beings to stop preaching hell fire and brimstone and other stupid fears, and just teach, "love one another"...nothing else".
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24130
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24130

Source:: Sikh Sikhs Sikhism http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=14565

These dogmatic religions went to wars, crossing the territorial boundaries in order to enforce and expand their belief systems unto others in the way of abductiing, raping and ruthless killings all in the name of some imaginary personified God with a long white beard and anger in his eyes, holding a clipboard or the modern kind with the tablet pc, noting down our each movement, just like the prison warden keeping an eye on the shackled ones.

Fear became the mode de jour, mouse traps with cheesy dogmas as baits and we all know when a mouse is trapped, there is no way out.

Then in the 15th century came Nanak- The Guru. The one that took the veil of fear-based ignorance away. He helped us come out of the darkness of dogmas and examine ourselves in the light of pragmatism- The Sat. He showed us that IK ONGKAAR couldn’t be put behind any walls and become exclusive to any one-belief system. In fact he took the notion of belief system out of the Sikh psyche and gave us the unique way of life called Sikhi Marg based on 3 basic rules of thumbs: Naam Japnah, Kirat karni and Vand kei chaknah.

Dogmas create ideologues not pragmatists. Solutions of the world's problems cannot be solved by any dogmatic ideology but only by pragmatism. That’s the message of Guru Nanak to us and we should embrace it.

The best example in today's world is of our President Bush’s change of policies in Iraq, which were based on ideology and not pragmatism.

If my fellow mates, who are reluctant in using the word Science in their sikhi way of life, change it to Pragmatism, it may help them to see our Gurus' message from a different dimension- sans dogmas, sans do's and don'ts but only with will's and won'ts. Because Sikhi is NOT dogmatic but Pragmatic, hence scientific

Tejwant

Giani Ji and aad Ji

While you lay emphasis on the GURU CORE TEACHING..DONT WASTE THIS HUMAN BIRTH...use it to MERGE with thy maker. YOU WILL NOT GET A SECOND CHANCE. PERIOD, you didn't complete the other side of it. What happens to those who don't even try to merge back or live like criminal. Do they get immunity from this pankti, kar kar karna likh lai jaey aapai beej aapai hi khaey nanak hukmi aavai jaey'. While Guru Nanak logically destroyes and discarded the theory of Avtarhood, disowned all its sectarian gods, goddesses and Avtars and condemened idol worship, formalism, ritualism, ceremonialism, supersition, can you give me one pankti from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji which rejects transmigration, soul and laikh na maiti hai sakhi jo likhiya kartar.
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24130
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24130
Best regards
Sahni Mohinder

TEJwant Ji writes..Then in the 15th century came Nanak- The Guru. The one that took the veil of fear-based ignorance away. He helped us come out of the darkness of dogmas and examine ourselves in the light of pragmatism- The Sat. He showed us that IK ONGKAAR couldn’t be put behind any walls and become exclusive to any one-belief system. In fact he took the notion of belief system out of the Sikh psyche and gave us the unique way of life called Sikhi Marg based on 3 basic rules of thumbs: Naam Japnah, Kirat karni and Vand kei chaknah...

THAT is what is conveveyed by Bhai Gurdass Ji when he writes..
Mitee DHUND JAGG CHANNANN HOYA.
Please note that Bhai Gurdass Jis choice of Vocabulary is unimaginably accurate and fulto the brim with meanings...Perhaps that si why his wriitngs are termed Kunji to Gurbani of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji ( NOT to beleive thsoe that say Gurbani is "locked"..Kunji is NOT in that sense at all...its in the sense we have "footnotes..expalnations etc in modern serious writings......Gurbani is OPEN and visible...Bhai Gurdass Jis choice vocabulary just makes sense in understanding Gurbani...)
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24130
Here he chose the word DHUND..FOG..( and not Darkness/hanera/night..as that is total absence of LIGHT. ) IN DHUND circumstances..the SUN is SHINING..BUT 'certain weather conditioins" make its LIGHT go DIM..until one cant see anything...IN BROAD DAYLIGHT !! See the fantastic analogy..the SACH..the TRUTH is already SHINING...But "DHUND" ...of rituals, traditions, pramparas, utter rubbish of customs and blind beleifs etc etc BLOCKED the TRUTH from the people...Guru Nanak ji came along and LIFTED the VEIL of FOG...removed the DHUND..and made it poossible for the people to see the TRUTH.

Guru nanak ji REMOVED the veil on Truth put in place through DOGMAS and man made laws and rituals etc etc.../
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24130