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Guru Granth Sahib
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ਜਪੁ | Jup
ਸੋ ਦਰੁ | So Dar
ਸੋਹਿਲਾ | Sohilaa
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ | Raag Siree-Raag
Gurbani (14-53)
Ashtpadiyan (53-71)
Gurbani (71-74)
Pahre (74-78)
Chhant (78-81)
Vanjara (81-82)
Vaar Siri Raag (83-91)
Bhagat Bani (91-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਝ | Raag Maajh
Gurbani (94-109)
Ashtpadi (109)
Ashtpadiyan (110-129)
Ashtpadi (129-130)
Ashtpadiyan (130-133)
Bara Maha (133-136)
Din Raen (136-137)
Vaar Maajh Ki (137-150)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗਉੜੀ | Raag Gauree
Gurbani (151-185)
Quartets/Couplets (185-220)
Ashtpadiyan (220-234)
Karhalei (234-235)
Ashtpadiyan (235-242)
Chhant (242-249)
Baavan Akhari (250-262)
Sukhmani (262-296)
Thittee (296-300)
Gauree kii Vaar (300-323)
Gurbani (323-330)
Ashtpadiyan (330-340)
Baavan Akhari (340-343)
Thintteen (343-344)
Vaar Kabir (344-345)
Bhagat Bani (345-346)
ਰਾਗੁ ਆਸਾ | Raag Aasaa
Gurbani (347-348)
Chaupaday (348-364)
Panchpadde (364-365)
Kaafee (365-409)
Aasaavaree (409-411)
Ashtpadiyan (411-432)
Patee (432-435)
Chhant (435-462)
Vaar Aasaa (462-475)
Bhagat Bani (475-488)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੂਜਰੀ | Raag Goojaree
Gurbani (489-503)
Ashtpadiyan (503-508)
Vaar Gujari (508-517)
Vaar Gujari (517-526)
ਰਾਗੁ ਦੇਵਗੰਧਾਰੀ | Raag Dayv-Gandhaaree
Gurbani (527-536)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਹਾਗੜਾ | Raag Bihaagraa
Gurbani (537-556)
Chhant (538-548)
Vaar Bihaagraa (548-556)
ਰਾਗੁ ਵਡਹੰਸ | Raag Wadhans
Gurbani (557-564)
Ashtpadiyan (564-565)
Chhant (565-575)
Ghoriaan (575-578)
Alaahaniiaa (578-582)
Vaar Wadhans (582-594)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੋਰਠਿ | Raag Sorath
Gurbani (595-634)
Asatpadhiya (634-642)
Vaar Sorath (642-659)
ਰਾਗੁ ਧਨਾਸਰੀ | Raag Dhanasaree
Gurbani (660-685)
Astpadhiya (685-687)
Chhant (687-691)
Bhagat Bani (691-695)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਤਸਰੀ | Raag Jaitsree
Gurbani (696-703)
Chhant (703-705)
Vaar Jaitsaree (705-710)
Bhagat Bani (710)
ਰਾਗੁ ਟੋਡੀ | Raag Todee
ਰਾਗੁ ਬੈਰਾੜੀ | Raag Bairaaree
ਰਾਗੁ ਤਿਲੰਗ | Raag Tilang
Gurbani (721-727)
Bhagat Bani (727)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੂਹੀ | Raag Suhi
Gurbani (728-750)
Ashtpadiyan (750-761)
Kaafee (761-762)
Suchajee (762)
Gunvantee (763)
Chhant (763-785)
Vaar Soohee (785-792)
Bhagat Bani (792-794)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ | Raag Bilaaval
Gurbani (795-831)
Ashtpadiyan (831-838)
Thitteen (838-840)
Vaar Sat (841-843)
Chhant (843-848)
Vaar Bilaaval (849-855)
Bhagat Bani (855-858)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੋਂਡ | Raag Gond
Gurbani (859-869)
Ashtpadiyan (869)
Bhagat Bani (870-875)
ਰਾਗੁ ਰਾਮਕਲੀ | Raag Ramkalee
Ashtpadiyan (902-916)
Gurbani (876-902)
Anand (917-922)
Sadd (923-924)
Chhant (924-929)
Dakhnee (929-938)
Sidh Gosat (938-946)
Vaar Ramkalee (947-968)
ਰਾਗੁ ਨਟ ਨਾਰਾਇਨ | Raag Nat Narayan
Gurbani (975-980)
Ashtpadiyan (980-983)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਲੀ ਗਉੜਾ | Raag Maalee Gauraa
Gurbani (984-988)
Bhagat Bani (988)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਰੂ | Raag Maaroo
Gurbani (889-1008)
Ashtpadiyan (1008-1014)
Kaafee (1014-1016)
Ashtpadiyan (1016-1019)
Anjulian (1019-1020)
Solhe (1020-1033)
Dakhni (1033-1043)
ਰਾਗੁ ਤੁਖਾਰੀ | Raag Tukhaari
Bara Maha (1107-1110)
Chhant (1110-1117)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕੇਦਾਰਾ | Raag Kedara
Gurbani (1118-1123)
Bhagat Bani (1123-1124)
ਰਾਗੁ ਭੈਰਉ | Raag Bhairo
Gurbani (1125-1152)
Partaal (1153)
Ashtpadiyan (1153-1167)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਸੰਤੁ | Raag Basant
Gurbani (1168-1187)
Ashtpadiyan (1187-1193)
Vaar Basant (1193-1196)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਾਰਗ | Raag Saarag
Gurbani (1197-1200)
Partaal (1200-1231)
Ashtpadiyan (1232-1236)
Chhant (1236-1237)
Vaar Saarang (1237-1253)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਲਾਰ | Raag Malaar
Gurbani (1254-1293)
Partaal (1265-1273)
Ashtpadiyan (1273-1278)
Chhant (1278)
Vaar Malaar (1278-91)
Bhagat Bani (1292-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਾਨੜਾ | Raag Kaanraa
Gurbani (1294-96)
Partaal (1296-1318)
Ashtpadiyan (1308-1312)
Chhant (1312)
Vaar Kaanraa
Bhagat Bani (1318)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਲਿਆਨ | Raag Kalyaan
Gurbani (1319-23)
Ashtpadiyan (1323-26)
ਰਾਗੁ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ | Raag Prabhaatee
Gurbani (1327-1341)
Ashtpadiyan (1342-51)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਜਾਵੰਤੀ | Raag Jaijaiwanti
Gurbani (1352-53)
Salok | Gatha | Phunahe | Chaubole | Swayiye
Sehskritee Mahala 1
Sehskritee Mahala 5
Gaathaa Mahala 5
Phunhay Mahala 5
Chaubolae Mahala 5
Shaloks Bhagat Kabir
Shaloks Sheikh Farid
Swaiyyae Mahala 5
Swaiyyae in Praise of Gurus
Shaloks in Addition To Vaars
Shalok Ninth Mehl
Mundavanee Mehl 5
ਰਾਗ ਮਾਲਾ, Raag Maalaa
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Wonderful Excerpts Of SPN Member Confused Ji's Post
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<blockquote data-quote="Archived_member14" data-source="post: 163741" data-attributes="member: 586"><p>Parma ji,</p><p></p><p>Yes, I write long responses and not so clearly much of the time (except to me when reading over or somebody who comes from my kind of understanding). And I *am* a very muddle-headed person. This is enough reason for you to drop the discussion at any time. But since it seems that you have not yet understood where I am coming from, allow me to say more here.</p><p></p><p>=====</p><p>This part from your response:</p><p></p><p>Quote C: We function only because of thinking, but this does not require that the different concepts involved be given the status of “reality” / existent. </p><p></p><p>Parma: At one point you are mentioning nothing can exist without thinking then you go on to suggest that thinking is the only thing that brings more thinking, but then you suggest thinking is a mind moment. Make up your mind either there is thinking or mind moments!</p><p></p><p>C: I don’t believe I ever suggested that “nothing can exist without thinking”, nor that “thinking is the only thing that brings more thinking”.</p><p>It is like this:</p><p></p><p>What we are is a moment of consciousness arisen with a set of mental factors at some material base, one after another and another. When there is seeing for example, seeing as a conscious moment arises with perception, attention, concentration, life faculty, feeling, intention and contact. These latter are mental factors each performing their individual functions in order that the experience happens. And they all, along with the seeing consciousness, arises at a material bases, the eye-base. </p><p></p><p>Seeing is extremely fleeting and is followed by some other kind of consciousness. This would arise at another material base and with its particular set of mental factors. Seeing and the other sense door experience is a resultant consciousness. Thinking on the other hand is a volitional consciousness which arises following upon the sense experience and also otherwise. But like all consciousness it too is fleeting. </p><p></p><p>I call all of these ‘mind moments’ because there ever exists only one experience at a time and all of them are equally momentary. </p><p></p><p>So there is thinking. It is a reality and exists, but this existence is momentary as must be all conditioned existence. Thoughts are created so to speak, by thinking, and does not have any characteristic. When there is a thought, it is because at that moment, thinking has arisen due to some proximate cause. Thoughts themselves do not rise and fall away but are only the “objects” of the thinking consciousness. Unlike the thinking itself, they are therefore not said to be real and existent. </p><p></p><p>I hope the above has better clarified my position.</p><p></p><p>=====</p><p>Parma: The conclusion of your idea’s is; you are neither the thinker, the thinking the thought. You are neither the seeker the seeking the sought. Your process has become quagmire. </p><p></p><p>C: According to me, there is of course no thinker. If I refer to myself, you or anyone in a conversation, it is only for the sake of communication to distinguish between what comes down to different set of experiences.</p><p>There is on the other hand “thinking” and “seeking” and objects thought about and sought after. The objects in this case however, are only ideas, hence non-existent. Can you please tell me what problem you have with this proposition? </p><p></p><p>=====</p><p>Parma: Realise in trying to split the processes of thought in fact you have split your reasons and so you have split your justifications. In context the individual or the concept of what you are. Your justifications have become delusional.</p><p></p><p>C: I understand that this is because you believe in the existence of a ‘self’ or ‘soul’, whereas I come from a Buddhist perspective which does not believe in the existence of this. And this may be the reason why you read into my comments certain contradictions. What do you think?</p><p></p><p>=====</p><p>Quote C: For example, in order to boil water, there must be thinking, seeing and visible object, body consciousness and the earth, fire and wind elements, intention, feeling, attention, concentration, perception, body intimation and so on, all must be very real and without which no concepts would be thought about. And thinking, must think at many levels starting from drawing outlines, distinguishing objects, space, movement etc., but these as you can now probably imagine, are just mind constructs. Reacting to these constructs will lead me to different experiences through the five senses and the mind and this is basically how everybody functions. </p><p></p><p>Indeed to think that concepts are real and existing, this is not only unnecessary but is in fact a problem, since it leads to functioning driven by ignorance and attachment.</p><p></p><p>Parma: At what point do you contemplate reality?</p><p></p><p>C: In the above quoted passage, I pointed to such things as consciousness, the earth, fire and wind elements, intention, feeling, attention and so on. These are what in fact arises and falls away all day, from which the different concepts are conceived. They can when the conditions are right, be known for what they are. But do I? No. My level of understanding is at what is called, the level of hearing and of considering and very little more. </p><p></p><p>======</p><p>Parma: Your conclusions are aimed in regards to detachment and not in regards to Sikhism. In fact Sikhism is beyond your thoughts so please refrain, and I would appreciate it if you would not use terms on Sikhism and any other religious path as your knowledge is not gained from faith but a delusional detached motive of thought, my thoughts I try to gain from balanced reasons, and I am willing to accept all versions of thought apart from thinking that thinking is existing without thought, that is madness.</p><p></p><p>C: I did say very clearly, that thinking when arisen must have thoughts as object. In other words, there is no thinking without thoughts. What I am trying to get across to you however, is that while thinking is real with particular characteristics, function, manifestation and proximate cause, thought on the other hand, are only “objects” of this thinking. This is because they do not rise and fall away, and have no characteristic, function and so on. And since for anything to be real and existent they must rise and fall away, and have characteristic etc. thoughts can’t be said to be real and existing. Do you now have a better idea of what I am saying? </p><p></p><p>You say that Sikhism is beyond my thoughts and therefore I should refrain from making any statement about it. But why particularly this? If the reason you give is that I deny the existence of ‘thoughts’, then you should not even be trying to tell me this with the expectation that I will respond positively to your suggestion. I mean, I’d be too deluded would not I? In other words, how is it that you expect me to be able to comprehend and follow your suggestion at all?</p><p></p><p>=====</p><p>Quote C:</p><p>There is thinking and thoughts are the object. And this is a fact! ;-) </p><p></p><p>Parma: There is thinking and thought are the object. What is the Fact? I guess you mean you agree thoughts exist fact.</p><p></p><p>C: “Object of experience" does not make it existent. Object of thinking in fact makes it *non-existent*. That is what thinking does, it thinks, imagines, dreams, and project and at best is said to “make sense” of what has just been experienced through one of the five senses. But even in this case, it is based on the memory of what those particular objects were.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Archived_member14, post: 163741, member: 586"] Parma ji, Yes, I write long responses and not so clearly much of the time (except to me when reading over or somebody who comes from my kind of understanding). And I *am* a very muddle-headed person. This is enough reason for you to drop the discussion at any time. But since it seems that you have not yet understood where I am coming from, allow me to say more here. ===== This part from your response: Quote C: We function only because of thinking, but this does not require that the different concepts involved be given the status of “reality” / existent. Parma: At one point you are mentioning nothing can exist without thinking then you go on to suggest that thinking is the only thing that brings more thinking, but then you suggest thinking is a mind moment. Make up your mind either there is thinking or mind moments! C: I don’t believe I ever suggested that “nothing can exist without thinking”, nor that “thinking is the only thing that brings more thinking”. It is like this: What we are is a moment of consciousness arisen with a set of mental factors at some material base, one after another and another. When there is seeing for example, seeing as a conscious moment arises with perception, attention, concentration, life faculty, feeling, intention and contact. These latter are mental factors each performing their individual functions in order that the experience happens. And they all, along with the seeing consciousness, arises at a material bases, the eye-base. Seeing is extremely fleeting and is followed by some other kind of consciousness. This would arise at another material base and with its particular set of mental factors. Seeing and the other sense door experience is a resultant consciousness. Thinking on the other hand is a volitional consciousness which arises following upon the sense experience and also otherwise. But like all consciousness it too is fleeting. I call all of these ‘mind moments’ because there ever exists only one experience at a time and all of them are equally momentary. So there is thinking. It is a reality and exists, but this existence is momentary as must be all conditioned existence. Thoughts are created so to speak, by thinking, and does not have any characteristic. When there is a thought, it is because at that moment, thinking has arisen due to some proximate cause. Thoughts themselves do not rise and fall away but are only the “objects” of the thinking consciousness. Unlike the thinking itself, they are therefore not said to be real and existent. I hope the above has better clarified my position. ===== Parma: The conclusion of your idea’s is; you are neither the thinker, the thinking the thought. You are neither the seeker the seeking the sought. Your process has become quagmire. C: According to me, there is of course no thinker. If I refer to myself, you or anyone in a conversation, it is only for the sake of communication to distinguish between what comes down to different set of experiences. There is on the other hand “thinking” and “seeking” and objects thought about and sought after. The objects in this case however, are only ideas, hence non-existent. Can you please tell me what problem you have with this proposition? ===== Parma: Realise in trying to split the processes of thought in fact you have split your reasons and so you have split your justifications. In context the individual or the concept of what you are. Your justifications have become delusional. C: I understand that this is because you believe in the existence of a ‘self’ or ‘soul’, whereas I come from a Buddhist perspective which does not believe in the existence of this. And this may be the reason why you read into my comments certain contradictions. What do you think? ===== Quote C: For example, in order to boil water, there must be thinking, seeing and visible object, body consciousness and the earth, fire and wind elements, intention, feeling, attention, concentration, perception, body intimation and so on, all must be very real and without which no concepts would be thought about. And thinking, must think at many levels starting from drawing outlines, distinguishing objects, space, movement etc., but these as you can now probably imagine, are just mind constructs. Reacting to these constructs will lead me to different experiences through the five senses and the mind and this is basically how everybody functions. Indeed to think that concepts are real and existing, this is not only unnecessary but is in fact a problem, since it leads to functioning driven by ignorance and attachment. Parma: At what point do you contemplate reality? C: In the above quoted passage, I pointed to such things as consciousness, the earth, fire and wind elements, intention, feeling, attention and so on. These are what in fact arises and falls away all day, from which the different concepts are conceived. They can when the conditions are right, be known for what they are. But do I? No. My level of understanding is at what is called, the level of hearing and of considering and very little more. ====== Parma: Your conclusions are aimed in regards to detachment and not in regards to Sikhism. In fact Sikhism is beyond your thoughts so please refrain, and I would appreciate it if you would not use terms on Sikhism and any other religious path as your knowledge is not gained from faith but a delusional detached motive of thought, my thoughts I try to gain from balanced reasons, and I am willing to accept all versions of thought apart from thinking that thinking is existing without thought, that is madness. C: I did say very clearly, that thinking when arisen must have thoughts as object. In other words, there is no thinking without thoughts. What I am trying to get across to you however, is that while thinking is real with particular characteristics, function, manifestation and proximate cause, thought on the other hand, are only “objects” of this thinking. This is because they do not rise and fall away, and have no characteristic, function and so on. And since for anything to be real and existent they must rise and fall away, and have characteristic etc. thoughts can’t be said to be real and existing. Do you now have a better idea of what I am saying? You say that Sikhism is beyond my thoughts and therefore I should refrain from making any statement about it. But why particularly this? If the reason you give is that I deny the existence of ‘thoughts’, then you should not even be trying to tell me this with the expectation that I will respond positively to your suggestion. I mean, I’d be too deluded would not I? In other words, how is it that you expect me to be able to comprehend and follow your suggestion at all? ===== Quote C: There is thinking and thoughts are the object. And this is a fact! ;-) Parma: There is thinking and thought are the object. What is the Fact? I guess you mean you agree thoughts exist fact. C: “Object of experience" does not make it existent. Object of thinking in fact makes it *non-existent*. That is what thinking does, it thinks, imagines, dreams, and project and at best is said to “make sense” of what has just been experienced through one of the five senses. But even in this case, it is based on the memory of what those particular objects were. [/QUOTE]
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