☀️ JOIN SPN MOBILE
Forums
New posts
Guru Granth Sahib
Composition, Arrangement & Layout
ਜਪੁ | Jup
ਸੋ ਦਰੁ | So Dar
ਸੋਹਿਲਾ | Sohilaa
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ | Raag Siree-Raag
Gurbani (14-53)
Ashtpadiyan (53-71)
Gurbani (71-74)
Pahre (74-78)
Chhant (78-81)
Vanjara (81-82)
Vaar Siri Raag (83-91)
Bhagat Bani (91-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਝ | Raag Maajh
Gurbani (94-109)
Ashtpadi (109)
Ashtpadiyan (110-129)
Ashtpadi (129-130)
Ashtpadiyan (130-133)
Bara Maha (133-136)
Din Raen (136-137)
Vaar Maajh Ki (137-150)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗਉੜੀ | Raag Gauree
Gurbani (151-185)
Quartets/Couplets (185-220)
Ashtpadiyan (220-234)
Karhalei (234-235)
Ashtpadiyan (235-242)
Chhant (242-249)
Baavan Akhari (250-262)
Sukhmani (262-296)
Thittee (296-300)
Gauree kii Vaar (300-323)
Gurbani (323-330)
Ashtpadiyan (330-340)
Baavan Akhari (340-343)
Thintteen (343-344)
Vaar Kabir (344-345)
Bhagat Bani (345-346)
ਰਾਗੁ ਆਸਾ | Raag Aasaa
Gurbani (347-348)
Chaupaday (348-364)
Panchpadde (364-365)
Kaafee (365-409)
Aasaavaree (409-411)
Ashtpadiyan (411-432)
Patee (432-435)
Chhant (435-462)
Vaar Aasaa (462-475)
Bhagat Bani (475-488)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੂਜਰੀ | Raag Goojaree
Gurbani (489-503)
Ashtpadiyan (503-508)
Vaar Gujari (508-517)
Vaar Gujari (517-526)
ਰਾਗੁ ਦੇਵਗੰਧਾਰੀ | Raag Dayv-Gandhaaree
Gurbani (527-536)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਹਾਗੜਾ | Raag Bihaagraa
Gurbani (537-556)
Chhant (538-548)
Vaar Bihaagraa (548-556)
ਰਾਗੁ ਵਡਹੰਸ | Raag Wadhans
Gurbani (557-564)
Ashtpadiyan (564-565)
Chhant (565-575)
Ghoriaan (575-578)
Alaahaniiaa (578-582)
Vaar Wadhans (582-594)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੋਰਠਿ | Raag Sorath
Gurbani (595-634)
Asatpadhiya (634-642)
Vaar Sorath (642-659)
ਰਾਗੁ ਧਨਾਸਰੀ | Raag Dhanasaree
Gurbani (660-685)
Astpadhiya (685-687)
Chhant (687-691)
Bhagat Bani (691-695)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਤਸਰੀ | Raag Jaitsree
Gurbani (696-703)
Chhant (703-705)
Vaar Jaitsaree (705-710)
Bhagat Bani (710)
ਰਾਗੁ ਟੋਡੀ | Raag Todee
ਰਾਗੁ ਬੈਰਾੜੀ | Raag Bairaaree
ਰਾਗੁ ਤਿਲੰਗ | Raag Tilang
Gurbani (721-727)
Bhagat Bani (727)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੂਹੀ | Raag Suhi
Gurbani (728-750)
Ashtpadiyan (750-761)
Kaafee (761-762)
Suchajee (762)
Gunvantee (763)
Chhant (763-785)
Vaar Soohee (785-792)
Bhagat Bani (792-794)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ | Raag Bilaaval
Gurbani (795-831)
Ashtpadiyan (831-838)
Thitteen (838-840)
Vaar Sat (841-843)
Chhant (843-848)
Vaar Bilaaval (849-855)
Bhagat Bani (855-858)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੋਂਡ | Raag Gond
Gurbani (859-869)
Ashtpadiyan (869)
Bhagat Bani (870-875)
ਰਾਗੁ ਰਾਮਕਲੀ | Raag Ramkalee
Ashtpadiyan (902-916)
Gurbani (876-902)
Anand (917-922)
Sadd (923-924)
Chhant (924-929)
Dakhnee (929-938)
Sidh Gosat (938-946)
Vaar Ramkalee (947-968)
ਰਾਗੁ ਨਟ ਨਾਰਾਇਨ | Raag Nat Narayan
Gurbani (975-980)
Ashtpadiyan (980-983)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਲੀ ਗਉੜਾ | Raag Maalee Gauraa
Gurbani (984-988)
Bhagat Bani (988)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਰੂ | Raag Maaroo
Gurbani (889-1008)
Ashtpadiyan (1008-1014)
Kaafee (1014-1016)
Ashtpadiyan (1016-1019)
Anjulian (1019-1020)
Solhe (1020-1033)
Dakhni (1033-1043)
ਰਾਗੁ ਤੁਖਾਰੀ | Raag Tukhaari
Bara Maha (1107-1110)
Chhant (1110-1117)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕੇਦਾਰਾ | Raag Kedara
Gurbani (1118-1123)
Bhagat Bani (1123-1124)
ਰਾਗੁ ਭੈਰਉ | Raag Bhairo
Gurbani (1125-1152)
Partaal (1153)
Ashtpadiyan (1153-1167)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਸੰਤੁ | Raag Basant
Gurbani (1168-1187)
Ashtpadiyan (1187-1193)
Vaar Basant (1193-1196)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਾਰਗ | Raag Saarag
Gurbani (1197-1200)
Partaal (1200-1231)
Ashtpadiyan (1232-1236)
Chhant (1236-1237)
Vaar Saarang (1237-1253)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਲਾਰ | Raag Malaar
Gurbani (1254-1293)
Partaal (1265-1273)
Ashtpadiyan (1273-1278)
Chhant (1278)
Vaar Malaar (1278-91)
Bhagat Bani (1292-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਾਨੜਾ | Raag Kaanraa
Gurbani (1294-96)
Partaal (1296-1318)
Ashtpadiyan (1308-1312)
Chhant (1312)
Vaar Kaanraa
Bhagat Bani (1318)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਲਿਆਨ | Raag Kalyaan
Gurbani (1319-23)
Ashtpadiyan (1323-26)
ਰਾਗੁ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ | Raag Prabhaatee
Gurbani (1327-1341)
Ashtpadiyan (1342-51)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਜਾਵੰਤੀ | Raag Jaijaiwanti
Gurbani (1352-53)
Salok | Gatha | Phunahe | Chaubole | Swayiye
Sehskritee Mahala 1
Sehskritee Mahala 5
Gaathaa Mahala 5
Phunhay Mahala 5
Chaubolae Mahala 5
Shaloks Bhagat Kabir
Shaloks Sheikh Farid
Swaiyyae Mahala 5
Swaiyyae in Praise of Gurus
Shaloks in Addition To Vaars
Shalok Ninth Mehl
Mundavanee Mehl 5
ਰਾਗ ਮਾਲਾ, Raag Maalaa
What's new
New posts
New media
New media comments
New resources
Latest activity
Videos
New media
New comments
Library
Latest reviews
Donate
Log in
Register
What's new
New posts
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Welcome to all New Sikh Philosophy Network Forums!
Explore Sikh Sikhi Sikhism...
Sign up
Log in
Discussions
Interfaith Dialogues
Wonderful Excerpts Of SPN Member Confused Ji's Post
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Harry Haller" data-source="post: 163339" data-attributes="member: 14641"><p>My non belief in past lives does not mean that past lives do not exist. I have to keep things simple for myself, otherwise such beliefs would/could corrupt my thinking. I can see the sense and the positives from a belief in past lives, but it also makes the picture a lot bigger and in my view detracts from the importance of this, our one and only life. If you are to say that you believe in past lives, then I agree and support you fully, I respect this idea, and am happy to retain the concept as a possibility, just not one that I am 'betting on'. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I accept your description, but I would like to think I follow the maxim of the english philosopher Edmund Burke who said, ‘The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.’, I have little interest in the self from this point of view, my actions are those that in my view, any reasonable human being would do, as I have no friends, there is no one to inform that I have made these actions, and in so far as my own personal thoughts, they remain 'the right thing' to do, rather than mirroring what a nice person I may or may not be. My wife carries this to different heights, and will not even tell me what she may or may not have done on a given day. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I liked this line, it made much sense, I am aware of the existence of cheating states, I have cheated myself for many many years to the point that my wife used to have a nickname for me , 'justification boy', and uses it when she feels I am cheating myself, deluding myself. You say the result is delusion, but the result is also that certain people are receiving the help that they need, a case of doing the right thing for the wrong reasons, but should we be hard on such a person, although they may be kidding themselves, actions are still taking place that are good and right. I would like to think that we both have an understanding as to why certain actions should take place, and they have nothing to do with 'pleasing god' or 'confirming our own goodness' but just that they are the correct things to do in respect of the Universal Truth that we subscribe to. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes, I fully agree, I think when one thinks one is good, one has lost already, or even to do good deeds with the thought that this will make me good, are all concepts that will lead to the wrong path, there is only one reason to do good, and that is the deed itself, although from a personal viewpoint, one should look at the consequences of the deed also, whether it would encourage reliance or not. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Deathlike living, the living death, the inability to feel excitement, dread, fear, the rush of blood to the stomach, to get turned on, to feel attachment, where every experience is experienced in a state of calm and acceptance, this is what I would call the living death, and also what is lauded in Sikhism. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I completely agree, we can be like children, scared of the burning flame without actually understanding it</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>If one is to accept that this life is all we have, and given that even if I were to accept the ideal of reincarnation, it would not change the fact that at my death, all I know, all I love, all that is me will be dead, will be gone, I will have no recollection or memories of this life, then in fact we are both singing from the same song sheet. The only difference is that a belief in Karma can assist in the understanding of this life, maybe..</p><p></p><p>Karma operates on a very simple manner if taken as a view of one life and one life alone, If one studies, one can get a good job, if one kicks a dog, one will get bitten, if one pets a dog, one gets love, but to carry out actions in the hope that life will deal a better hand is a very dangerous road to go down in my opinion. In the same way, those that do bad deeds, that steal, that rape, their own guilt will constantly put them in a state of fear of being discovered, and that is their own hell that they will have created. If every deed that is not a bad deed, is seen as a good deed, then one lives in a state of no fear, of not being discovered, without guilt, this, in my view, is a pleasing state to be in. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Given you previous postings on this topic, perhaps then submission is the wrong word. A combination of wisdom and discipline, coupled with moderation perhaps would be a better way of dealing with the vices?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I do not believe Creator wishes to be worshipped or praised, but my concept of Creator fits in well with the whole of the Ocean, </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I do worry, I worry that my eating habits are putting more pressure on my heart, that my odd drinking is taking years of my life, that all my years of hellraising have left me with a body that will not make it to its sixties, but never not once, either while incarcerated in prison, or in hospitals, or in courts, have I ever blamed, or requested Creator to intervene, or to accept such circumstances as anything other than consequences of my own actions. The Creator I believe in is more of an energy than a personalised force, the laws of Creation stand, there are no miracles. The only person I am letting down with any wrong decision is myself, increasing say wrong thinking, or deluding myself, yes I think it is possible to believe in Creator but only as the source of all energy in the world, nothing more, nothing magical, nothing supernatural. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Surely it is human nature to devalue what we will have again. When I was younger, I had a firm belief in 'going again', and as such, I followed the steppenwolf philosophy that one should live as a lucid dream, with suicide a forced awakening. If I believed in Karma, it would devalue everything in this life for me, my thinking would be surface only, the people in this life would just be characters in a play, my role would be an actor, it would all be irrelevant, for me anyway, accepting this is the one and only life means I will never love again like I have today, it means today is all I have, it is a race against time, not to find enlightenment, but to live truthfully, to live honestly, with no game, no subterfuge, just honesty, which I find a wonderful antidote to fear, it kills it, dead. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The attachment stems from unfulfilled purpose, I have not done enough for my parents, they are unfulfilled, and I am still learning how to do more, I have never shown my wife a true honest love free from lust, I have not been a good brother, and I have maybe shown my stepson that there is an easy way out of anything, but taught him nothing, I think this attachment is the result of unfinished business, it in no way hugely influences my non belief in Karma, I would love to believe in Karma, I concede that anything could happen, but privately, I feel that even if Karma existed, then one should still live this life on the basis that it did not. It is hard enough for me to figure out the purpose of this life, without compounding the problem by taking into account previous and future lives to boot <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Guru Nanakji stated that we must also live as householders, I think this was stated for a reason, it stops us becoming ascetics, monks, it is a checkpoint, I have lost business and money because I have been too preoccupied with philosophy, with thinking, it is a dangerous road, one must be self sufficient, must earn enough to eat, to have a roof over the head, to not be in debt, to have control over ones own life, not to be a prostitute to another, to not compromise ones beliefs in order to make money. One may be the most enlightened in the world, but the balance between ensuring that worldly responsibilities are kept, and enlightenment is hugely important to me, it never used to be, but as I have got older, and freed myself from a lot of superstition and the concept that good deeds will be buy me special credits that will help my life, I have been able to carry out good deeds and attempt to dig our way out of the debt we are in. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I agree, but there is a quest for wealth, and a quest for stability, I seek the latter. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I agree!</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You are correct, my self view is flawed. I will state it again in a way that I feel more comfortable with. If I am a drop of water, then I have some understanding of the Ocean, the Ocean being Creator. I do not have full understanding, a drop of water cannot bring me understanding of the whales, the sharks, the coral reefs, I have a tiny understanding and concept of the Ocean, this understanding gets bigger or smaller depending on which path I chose to live my daily life, and how much wisdom I have absorbed, do I end up an enlightened free thinking individual, or a slave, or worse, do I consider myself an enlightened free thinking individual, when I am actually a slave, yes there are many cheating states, and when one is in the eye of such, then one will not see exactly where one is. </p><p></p><p>However, time ticks and waits for no man, ultimately the drop will find the ocean, or it will dry up trying, leaving nothing</p><p></p><p>I have enjoyed writing this hugely, thank you for your post,</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Harry Haller, post: 163339, member: 14641"] My non belief in past lives does not mean that past lives do not exist. I have to keep things simple for myself, otherwise such beliefs would/could corrupt my thinking. I can see the sense and the positives from a belief in past lives, but it also makes the picture a lot bigger and in my view detracts from the importance of this, our one and only life. If you are to say that you believe in past lives, then I agree and support you fully, I respect this idea, and am happy to retain the concept as a possibility, just not one that I am 'betting on'. I accept your description, but I would like to think I follow the maxim of the english philosopher Edmund Burke who said, ‘The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.’, I have little interest in the self from this point of view, my actions are those that in my view, any reasonable human being would do, as I have no friends, there is no one to inform that I have made these actions, and in so far as my own personal thoughts, they remain 'the right thing' to do, rather than mirroring what a nice person I may or may not be. My wife carries this to different heights, and will not even tell me what she may or may not have done on a given day. I liked this line, it made much sense, I am aware of the existence of cheating states, I have cheated myself for many many years to the point that my wife used to have a nickname for me , 'justification boy', and uses it when she feels I am cheating myself, deluding myself. You say the result is delusion, but the result is also that certain people are receiving the help that they need, a case of doing the right thing for the wrong reasons, but should we be hard on such a person, although they may be kidding themselves, actions are still taking place that are good and right. I would like to think that we both have an understanding as to why certain actions should take place, and they have nothing to do with 'pleasing god' or 'confirming our own goodness' but just that they are the correct things to do in respect of the Universal Truth that we subscribe to. Yes, I fully agree, I think when one thinks one is good, one has lost already, or even to do good deeds with the thought that this will make me good, are all concepts that will lead to the wrong path, there is only one reason to do good, and that is the deed itself, although from a personal viewpoint, one should look at the consequences of the deed also, whether it would encourage reliance or not. Deathlike living, the living death, the inability to feel excitement, dread, fear, the rush of blood to the stomach, to get turned on, to feel attachment, where every experience is experienced in a state of calm and acceptance, this is what I would call the living death, and also what is lauded in Sikhism. I completely agree, we can be like children, scared of the burning flame without actually understanding it If one is to accept that this life is all we have, and given that even if I were to accept the ideal of reincarnation, it would not change the fact that at my death, all I know, all I love, all that is me will be dead, will be gone, I will have no recollection or memories of this life, then in fact we are both singing from the same song sheet. The only difference is that a belief in Karma can assist in the understanding of this life, maybe.. Karma operates on a very simple manner if taken as a view of one life and one life alone, If one studies, one can get a good job, if one kicks a dog, one will get bitten, if one pets a dog, one gets love, but to carry out actions in the hope that life will deal a better hand is a very dangerous road to go down in my opinion. In the same way, those that do bad deeds, that steal, that rape, their own guilt will constantly put them in a state of fear of being discovered, and that is their own hell that they will have created. If every deed that is not a bad deed, is seen as a good deed, then one lives in a state of no fear, of not being discovered, without guilt, this, in my view, is a pleasing state to be in. Given you previous postings on this topic, perhaps then submission is the wrong word. A combination of wisdom and discipline, coupled with moderation perhaps would be a better way of dealing with the vices? I do not believe Creator wishes to be worshipped or praised, but my concept of Creator fits in well with the whole of the Ocean, I do worry, I worry that my eating habits are putting more pressure on my heart, that my odd drinking is taking years of my life, that all my years of hellraising have left me with a body that will not make it to its sixties, but never not once, either while incarcerated in prison, or in hospitals, or in courts, have I ever blamed, or requested Creator to intervene, or to accept such circumstances as anything other than consequences of my own actions. The Creator I believe in is more of an energy than a personalised force, the laws of Creation stand, there are no miracles. The only person I am letting down with any wrong decision is myself, increasing say wrong thinking, or deluding myself, yes I think it is possible to believe in Creator but only as the source of all energy in the world, nothing more, nothing magical, nothing supernatural. Surely it is human nature to devalue what we will have again. When I was younger, I had a firm belief in 'going again', and as such, I followed the steppenwolf philosophy that one should live as a lucid dream, with suicide a forced awakening. If I believed in Karma, it would devalue everything in this life for me, my thinking would be surface only, the people in this life would just be characters in a play, my role would be an actor, it would all be irrelevant, for me anyway, accepting this is the one and only life means I will never love again like I have today, it means today is all I have, it is a race against time, not to find enlightenment, but to live truthfully, to live honestly, with no game, no subterfuge, just honesty, which I find a wonderful antidote to fear, it kills it, dead. The attachment stems from unfulfilled purpose, I have not done enough for my parents, they are unfulfilled, and I am still learning how to do more, I have never shown my wife a true honest love free from lust, I have not been a good brother, and I have maybe shown my stepson that there is an easy way out of anything, but taught him nothing, I think this attachment is the result of unfinished business, it in no way hugely influences my non belief in Karma, I would love to believe in Karma, I concede that anything could happen, but privately, I feel that even if Karma existed, then one should still live this life on the basis that it did not. It is hard enough for me to figure out the purpose of this life, without compounding the problem by taking into account previous and future lives to boot :) Guru Nanakji stated that we must also live as householders, I think this was stated for a reason, it stops us becoming ascetics, monks, it is a checkpoint, I have lost business and money because I have been too preoccupied with philosophy, with thinking, it is a dangerous road, one must be self sufficient, must earn enough to eat, to have a roof over the head, to not be in debt, to have control over ones own life, not to be a prostitute to another, to not compromise ones beliefs in order to make money. One may be the most enlightened in the world, but the balance between ensuring that worldly responsibilities are kept, and enlightenment is hugely important to me, it never used to be, but as I have got older, and freed myself from a lot of superstition and the concept that good deeds will be buy me special credits that will help my life, I have been able to carry out good deeds and attempt to dig our way out of the debt we are in. I agree, but there is a quest for wealth, and a quest for stability, I seek the latter. I agree! You are correct, my self view is flawed. I will state it again in a way that I feel more comfortable with. If I am a drop of water, then I have some understanding of the Ocean, the Ocean being Creator. I do not have full understanding, a drop of water cannot bring me understanding of the whales, the sharks, the coral reefs, I have a tiny understanding and concept of the Ocean, this understanding gets bigger or smaller depending on which path I chose to live my daily life, and how much wisdom I have absorbed, do I end up an enlightened free thinking individual, or a slave, or worse, do I consider myself an enlightened free thinking individual, when I am actually a slave, yes there are many cheating states, and when one is in the eye of such, then one will not see exactly where one is. However, time ticks and waits for no man, ultimately the drop will find the ocean, or it will dry up trying, leaving nothing I have enjoyed writing this hugely, thank you for your post, [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Discussions
Interfaith Dialogues
Wonderful Excerpts Of SPN Member Confused Ji's Post
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
Accept
Learn more…
Top