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Guru Granth Sahib
Composition, Arrangement & Layout
ਜਪੁ | Jup
ਸੋ ਦਰੁ | So Dar
ਸੋਹਿਲਾ | Sohilaa
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ | Raag Siree-Raag
Gurbani (14-53)
Ashtpadiyan (53-71)
Gurbani (71-74)
Pahre (74-78)
Chhant (78-81)
Vanjara (81-82)
Vaar Siri Raag (83-91)
Bhagat Bani (91-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਝ | Raag Maajh
Gurbani (94-109)
Ashtpadi (109)
Ashtpadiyan (110-129)
Ashtpadi (129-130)
Ashtpadiyan (130-133)
Bara Maha (133-136)
Din Raen (136-137)
Vaar Maajh Ki (137-150)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗਉੜੀ | Raag Gauree
Gurbani (151-185)
Quartets/Couplets (185-220)
Ashtpadiyan (220-234)
Karhalei (234-235)
Ashtpadiyan (235-242)
Chhant (242-249)
Baavan Akhari (250-262)
Sukhmani (262-296)
Thittee (296-300)
Gauree kii Vaar (300-323)
Gurbani (323-330)
Ashtpadiyan (330-340)
Baavan Akhari (340-343)
Thintteen (343-344)
Vaar Kabir (344-345)
Bhagat Bani (345-346)
ਰਾਗੁ ਆਸਾ | Raag Aasaa
Gurbani (347-348)
Chaupaday (348-364)
Panchpadde (364-365)
Kaafee (365-409)
Aasaavaree (409-411)
Ashtpadiyan (411-432)
Patee (432-435)
Chhant (435-462)
Vaar Aasaa (462-475)
Bhagat Bani (475-488)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੂਜਰੀ | Raag Goojaree
Gurbani (489-503)
Ashtpadiyan (503-508)
Vaar Gujari (508-517)
Vaar Gujari (517-526)
ਰਾਗੁ ਦੇਵਗੰਧਾਰੀ | Raag Dayv-Gandhaaree
Gurbani (527-536)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਹਾਗੜਾ | Raag Bihaagraa
Gurbani (537-556)
Chhant (538-548)
Vaar Bihaagraa (548-556)
ਰਾਗੁ ਵਡਹੰਸ | Raag Wadhans
Gurbani (557-564)
Ashtpadiyan (564-565)
Chhant (565-575)
Ghoriaan (575-578)
Alaahaniiaa (578-582)
Vaar Wadhans (582-594)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੋਰਠਿ | Raag Sorath
Gurbani (595-634)
Asatpadhiya (634-642)
Vaar Sorath (642-659)
ਰਾਗੁ ਧਨਾਸਰੀ | Raag Dhanasaree
Gurbani (660-685)
Astpadhiya (685-687)
Chhant (687-691)
Bhagat Bani (691-695)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਤਸਰੀ | Raag Jaitsree
Gurbani (696-703)
Chhant (703-705)
Vaar Jaitsaree (705-710)
Bhagat Bani (710)
ਰਾਗੁ ਟੋਡੀ | Raag Todee
ਰਾਗੁ ਬੈਰਾੜੀ | Raag Bairaaree
ਰਾਗੁ ਤਿਲੰਗ | Raag Tilang
Gurbani (721-727)
Bhagat Bani (727)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੂਹੀ | Raag Suhi
Gurbani (728-750)
Ashtpadiyan (750-761)
Kaafee (761-762)
Suchajee (762)
Gunvantee (763)
Chhant (763-785)
Vaar Soohee (785-792)
Bhagat Bani (792-794)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ | Raag Bilaaval
Gurbani (795-831)
Ashtpadiyan (831-838)
Thitteen (838-840)
Vaar Sat (841-843)
Chhant (843-848)
Vaar Bilaaval (849-855)
Bhagat Bani (855-858)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੋਂਡ | Raag Gond
Gurbani (859-869)
Ashtpadiyan (869)
Bhagat Bani (870-875)
ਰਾਗੁ ਰਾਮਕਲੀ | Raag Ramkalee
Ashtpadiyan (902-916)
Gurbani (876-902)
Anand (917-922)
Sadd (923-924)
Chhant (924-929)
Dakhnee (929-938)
Sidh Gosat (938-946)
Vaar Ramkalee (947-968)
ਰਾਗੁ ਨਟ ਨਾਰਾਇਨ | Raag Nat Narayan
Gurbani (975-980)
Ashtpadiyan (980-983)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਲੀ ਗਉੜਾ | Raag Maalee Gauraa
Gurbani (984-988)
Bhagat Bani (988)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਰੂ | Raag Maaroo
Gurbani (889-1008)
Ashtpadiyan (1008-1014)
Kaafee (1014-1016)
Ashtpadiyan (1016-1019)
Anjulian (1019-1020)
Solhe (1020-1033)
Dakhni (1033-1043)
ਰਾਗੁ ਤੁਖਾਰੀ | Raag Tukhaari
Bara Maha (1107-1110)
Chhant (1110-1117)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕੇਦਾਰਾ | Raag Kedara
Gurbani (1118-1123)
Bhagat Bani (1123-1124)
ਰਾਗੁ ਭੈਰਉ | Raag Bhairo
Gurbani (1125-1152)
Partaal (1153)
Ashtpadiyan (1153-1167)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਸੰਤੁ | Raag Basant
Gurbani (1168-1187)
Ashtpadiyan (1187-1193)
Vaar Basant (1193-1196)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਾਰਗ | Raag Saarag
Gurbani (1197-1200)
Partaal (1200-1231)
Ashtpadiyan (1232-1236)
Chhant (1236-1237)
Vaar Saarang (1237-1253)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਲਾਰ | Raag Malaar
Gurbani (1254-1293)
Partaal (1265-1273)
Ashtpadiyan (1273-1278)
Chhant (1278)
Vaar Malaar (1278-91)
Bhagat Bani (1292-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਾਨੜਾ | Raag Kaanraa
Gurbani (1294-96)
Partaal (1296-1318)
Ashtpadiyan (1308-1312)
Chhant (1312)
Vaar Kaanraa
Bhagat Bani (1318)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਲਿਆਨ | Raag Kalyaan
Gurbani (1319-23)
Ashtpadiyan (1323-26)
ਰਾਗੁ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ | Raag Prabhaatee
Gurbani (1327-1341)
Ashtpadiyan (1342-51)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਜਾਵੰਤੀ | Raag Jaijaiwanti
Gurbani (1352-53)
Salok | Gatha | Phunahe | Chaubole | Swayiye
Sehskritee Mahala 1
Sehskritee Mahala 5
Gaathaa Mahala 5
Phunhay Mahala 5
Chaubolae Mahala 5
Shaloks Bhagat Kabir
Shaloks Sheikh Farid
Swaiyyae Mahala 5
Swaiyyae in Praise of Gurus
Shaloks in Addition To Vaars
Shalok Ninth Mehl
Mundavanee Mehl 5
ਰਾਗ ਮਾਲਾ, Raag Maalaa
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Bachittar Natak
When Dasam Granth Becomes An Issue?
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<blockquote data-quote="spnadmin" data-source="post: 112556" data-attributes="member: 35"><p>With your indulgence, I want to give an example of why SGPC should either a) get down to the business of expert textual analysis of disputed portions of Dasam Granth or b) stand back and permit intelligent members of the panth engage in critical debate without the experience of being called slanderers and heretics. </p><p></p><p>On Sikhiwiki there is a puzzling exposition of Chaubis Avtars (24 Avatars). In this article the author presents an argument that Sri Guru Gobind Singh is the author of the entire text. First he states that the Chaubis Avtar was composed over several periods. Then he states that it opens with 38 clarifications -- that are clearly the thinking and writing of Dasam Pita and set the stage for a correct understanding of the remaining portion. The parts that follow the clarification are essentially praises of Vedic deities. He concludes that the last section should be accepted as Bani of Dasam Pita because the earlier section makes it clear that Dasam Pita has given the proper context for understanding references to Puranic tests.</p><p></p><p>I have copied key parts of the article so you can see what I am referring to.</p><p><span style="color: Black"></span></p><p><span style="color: Black"></span> <strong> <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="color: Black"><span style="font-size: 9px">The first part where it is stated that the Chaubis </span></span></span><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: Black"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Avtar</span> was composed over a period of time </span></span></span></strong></p><p></p><p> <span style="color: DarkOliveGreen">Chaubis Autar does not appear to be the work of one period. It was a long project which was in execution for a decade or more. While Krishnavtar is stated in verse 2, 490-91 to have been composed in Samvat 1745/AD 1688 at Paonta when Guru Gobind Singh was residing there, Ram Avtar, according to verses 860-61 was composed at Anandpur in Samvat 1755/AD 1698 near the temple of Nainadevi, close to the bank of the River Sutlej. </span></p><p> <strong>...</strong></p><p><strong></strong><strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 9px">Here the author is stating that readers should understand that the 24 avatars should not be worshiped; yet he also states that Guru Gobind Singh believed they were historical facts.</span></span></strong></p><p> <span style="color: DarkGreen">The aim behind the bani was to tell the <a href="http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Sikh" target="_blank">Sikh</a> Jagat to know what these 24 avtars were, Guru sahib never worshipped these avtars but he created this historical account of Vishnu, not only vishnu but Shiv and brahma too. </span></p><p><span style="color: DarkGreen"></span></p><p><span style="color: DarkGreen">The description of 24 Avtars given in Sri Dasam Granth are the incarnations of god Vishnu. The most important of all the Avtars are Rama and Krishna; It is mistaken belief of Hindus to call them as the Supreme God. It was to clarify the Mistaken Beliefs of people that the Avtars were God, Sri Guru Gobind Singh Jee took pains to write about these 24 Avtars, giving their limitations and pitfalls. It was never the intention to teach to worship them, but to enlighten people to Worship One Creator God Alone, Who is Infinite and is the Ultimate. </span></p><p> ...</p><p> So essentially, the author is expecting readers to accept that the avatars are factual and Guru Gobind Singh is instructing his Sikhs to believe that incarnations of Waheguru happened not once but 23 times, with one more to come. This in spite of other bani that instructs Sikhs that the Sat does not incarnate.That Sikhs should not worship the avatars; nonetheless it is acceptable to buy into the idea that avatars are believable. </p><p></p><p> <strong>Now the author presents the 38 clarifications and argues that Guru Gobind Singh wrote this first so that Sikhs would not become worshippers of the avatars. These come at the beginning of the Chaubis Avtar.</strong> The passage also states that Sikhs should keep in mind that Guru Gobind Singh kept his compositions separate from Granth Sahib to avoid confusion. But it also implies that Guru Gobind Singh found the Puranic content so persuasive that he needed to integrate it with his own thinking.</p><p></p><p><span style="color: DarkGreen"><span style="color: Sienna"><strong>Note these are the author's explanations of the early part of Chaubis Avtar</strong></span></span></p><p><span style="color: DarkGreen">Here under are the 38 Introductory Points of the 24 Avtars, as stated by Sri Guru Gobind Singh Jee, which should ever be kept in Mind while examining the translations of Hindu Sacred Books made by the Guru and included in Sri Dasam Granth. It was due to these translations of Hindu sacred books of Hindus having different approach from the Sikh; the Guru decided that his Compositions to remain separate from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee. These translations make a Sikh to appreciate GURMAT more clearly than otherwise, if any one would read judiciously. </span></p><p> </p><ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"><span style="color: DarkOliveGreen">Chaupai – Now I recite as I have seen the feats of the 24 incarnations.O Saints! Listen to it attentively; Poet Shyam will describe them according to wisdom blessed him by God. </span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"><span style="color: DarkOliveGreen">As and when many inimical persons emerge (and the spirit of righteousness decreases), it is supposed that the incarnation of god Vishnu take place. The Time aspect of the Lord God (Kal) beholds the feats of all and ultimately perishes one and all. </span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"><span style="color: DarkOliveGreen">Kal is the ultimate Creator of all and ultimately subsumes all in Him. He assumes His many forms and at the end merges all in Him. </span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"><span style="color: DarkOliveGreen">KAL created the Ten Incarnations and in all of them pervades Himself (The Transcendent Lord). Beside ten, fourteen other incarnations have also been created and the feats they have performed are delineated here. </span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"><span style="color: DarkOliveGreen">Kal (Supreme Lord) keeping His Own Name concealed and not shouldering any blame holds all others responsible for their evils. This fact I know already that He keeps Himself detached from the temporal activities of this world. </span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"><span style="color: DarkOliveGreen">Kal Himself creates, Himself destroys but making others the efficient CAUSE FOR THE GOOD AND EVIL HOLDS THEM RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR DEEDS. </span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"><span style="color: DarkOliveGreen">The so called 24 incarnations, O Lord, could not maintain even an iota of You. Becoming worldly kings they got deluded in the worldly affairs and are known by many names. </span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"><span style="color: DarkOliveGreen">O Lord! You have been deluding one and all but You Yourself were never deceived by anybody. That is why You are called the Deluder (Chaliya) also. Seeing the saints suffering, You become anguished and that is why You are called Friend of the poor (Deen-bandhu). </span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"><span style="color: DarkOliveGreen">Time to time You annihilate the whole Universe and that is why this world calls You KAL also. On different occasions and in different Ages You have been helping the saints and accordingly these Avtars have been counted by the saints. </span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"><span style="color: DarkOliveGreen">Seeing the helpless, You show Your kindness and realizing this we call You the Friend of the poor ones. Your compassionate sentiments rain upon the saints and that is why the world calls You the Treasure of Compassion. </span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"><span style="color: DarkOliveGreen">You always wipe out the troubles of the saints and that is why Your one Name is Trouble Wiper, Sankatharan. You have been destroying the suffering of the saints and that is why You are called Perisher of the Suffering. </span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"><span style="color: DarkOliveGreen">You are ever Eternal and none could know Your mystery. That is why Your Name is Infinite, and is also known. In the world You through Your Light assume the forms of all and that is why Your Name is called the Creator also. </span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"><span style="color: DarkOliveGreen">None could perceive You so far, so Your Name is Imperceptible, is also known. You never take birth in the world and that is why You are called Unborn by the people. </span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"><span style="color: DarkOliveGreen">In the process of knowing Your mystery, the poor fellows, Brahma, Vishnu, Mehesh etc. have got tired. Moon and Sun also ponder upon You, that is why You are known as their Creator. </span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"><span style="color: DarkOliveGreen">You also remain without any guise so the world says You are beyond ALL THE GARBS. Your Invisible Form is not known to anybody and that is why You are delineated as Imperceptible. </span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"><span style="color: DarkOliveGreen">Your Beauty is Incomparable and Form Infinite, guise or no guise You are different from all. You are the Giver to all and You Yourself beg from nobody. That is why we know you in the form of Creator. </span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"><span style="color: DarkOliveGreen">You do not get influenced by the omens and the auspicious time etc., this s known to whole world. No Mantra, Yantra or Tantra can make You happy and even through different garbs none could attain You. </span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"><span style="color: DarkOliveGreen">The Creatures of the world are deeply engrossed in their own selfish ends and none has identified the Transcendent Lord. To attain You many go to the cemeteries or the cremation grounds but in both these places no Lord is there. </span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"><span style="color: DarkOliveGreen">These both types of persons engrossed in their infatuations and oral debates are waste, but O Lord! You are different from these both. Attaining Whom one clears away the delusions of the heart, before that Lord, no one is Hindu or a Muslim. </span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"><span style="color: DarkOliveGreen">One uses beads and the other keeps rosary; one recites the Holy Koran and the other Purans. Persons of both these sects are dying while opposing each other and none of these have got the fast color of the love of the Lord. </span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"><span style="color: DarkOliveGreen">Those who have dyed the fast color of the Lord, their repudiating the worldly shame dance in sheer happiness. Those who have identified the one primal Lord from their hearts the sense of duality has perished. </span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"><span style="color: DarkOliveGreen">Those who are absorbed in the sense of duality i.e. who consider them separate from the Lord are in fact away from meeting Lord, the Supreme Friend. Who has even a BIT UNDERSTOOD THE Lord in fact has understood Him as the Supreme Reality. </span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"><span style="color: DarkOliveGreen">As much as yogis, ascetics, the shaven heads and Muslim Fakirs are there, they assuming their different guises are looting the world. The saints whose total base is the Name of the Lord, never become manifest before the people and keep themselves concealed. </span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"><span style="color: DarkOliveGreen">The worldly creatures show their hypocrisies just for the sake of bread and butter because without hypocrisy they do not get any monetary profits. The person who has concentrated upon one supreme reality, has never shown any pretensions to anybody. </span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"><span style="color: DarkOliveGreen">Without pretensions the selfish ends are not attained and none bows before anybody. Has this belly not been there attached with the body, no body would have been king or a pauper in this world. </span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"><span style="color: DarkOliveGreen">Those who have accepted God as One, have never shown pretensions to anybody. Such person gets his head cut but never repudiates the Truth. And only such person accepts this body as a particle of dust. </span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"><span style="color: DarkOliveGreen">Split ear, the individual is known as Yogi, who being variously hypocritical goes to the forest. If he has not realized the essence of the Name of the Lord, he is neither useful in the forest nor he remains of any use for the household. </span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"><span style="color: DarkOliveGreen">How long this poet can describe because one tongue cannot know the mystery of the Infinite. May be somebody has crores of tongues, even then the end limit of Your ocean of qualities cannot be known.<br /> POINT 29 IS MOST IMPORTANT – PLEASE NOTE.<br /> </span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"><span style="color: DarkOliveGreen">The Primal Lord, called the KAL is the Father of the whole Creation. It is from Him emerged the tremendous radiance, which is known by the Name of Bhavani. This God’s Light (Jot) is called Bhavani or Durga or Kali, etc., which created this Universe. (In Gurmat God’s Light (Jot) in all is called Guru, Satguru or Satguru Poora, verily God Himself). </span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"><span style="color: DarkOliveGreen">First He articulated Oankar and this resonance became diffused in the whole world. From this and the combination of Prakriti and Pursha, the world got expanded. </span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"><span style="color: DarkOliveGreen">The creation got created and since then this is known as the world. Grossly the four mines of creation are described (these are, egg, fetus, sweat and vegetation). I have not that much of power that could describe their various names. </span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"><span style="color: DarkOliveGreen">The Lord created both powerful and the weak and cleared the distinction of the high and low. The Mighty Kal (Lord) assuming bodies through His Light (Jot), manifested Himself in different forms. </span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"><span style="color: DarkOliveGreen">As and when He assumes the body by putting His Light, He becomes popular in the forms of different incarnations. But ultimately all merged in the Supreme Form of the Lord. </span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"><span style="color: DarkOliveGreen">As much as the number of the Jivas are there in the world, consider them all enlightened by the One Flame of the Lord. Whole of world subsumes in the Lord God, Who is known in the form of KAL </span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"><span style="color: DarkOliveGreen">Whatever is perceptible is given the name of Maya by our mind. He, the One pervades through all and people have established Him according to their own understandings. </span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"><span style="color: DarkOliveGreen">The Invisible Lord permeates all, and all the creatures according to their station in life due to their karmas beg of Him. Whosoever has known that Lord as One, only he has attained the Supreme Reality. </span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"><span style="color: DarkOliveGreen">His One Formless Form is superb and He only is at one place, a King and at other a pauper. He has entrapped all variously but Himself is detached from all, and none could know His mystery. </span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"><span style="color: DarkOliveGreen">In different forms He has created all and He only annihilates them differently. He never takes any responsibility of any wrong done; jivas are rather held responsible for their evils.” </span></li> </ol><p>...</p><p>In other words, the clarifications by Guru Gobind Singh give the green light, all systems GO, legitimacy to what follows. Go back and read Point 33 dear forum members.</p><p></p><p><span style="color: DarkOliveGreen">As and when He assumes the body by putting His Light, He becomes popular in the forms of different incarnations. But ultimately all merged in the Supreme Form of the Lord. </span></p><p><span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"></span></p><p><span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"><span style="color: Black"> This is not a clarification but a contradiction of the Mool Mantar, depending on how it is interpreted.</span></span></p><p></p><p>The author interprets it this way. And, this is on the Internet in a very popular Sikh web site, considered authoritative by many.</p><p></p><p><span style="color: DarkGreen">The 24 Avtars are the incarnations of god Vishnu, who himself was full of limitations. These three Trinity gods, Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva had their weaknesses; they even committed crimes, told lies and indulged in adulterous affairs. Points 1 –6, 32 and 29 given above are Most Important. KAL is GOD, Who subsumes all the Creation. In Sri Guru Granth Sahib it is repeatedly stated that there is NO OTHER DESTROYER EXCEPT GOD. God’s Light (Jot) in all creatures, we call it Guru, Satguru and Satguru Poora; verily God Himself. Here the Guru states goddess Chandi , Bhaviani, Durga, Bhaawati, Kali, etc. are none else but God’s Light (Jot), which created the Universe, the Immanent or the Functional God, as part of the Transcendent God. This will explain the Guru’s version of Chandi Chritrars. Chandi or God’s Light or God in Man fights with the temptations of the instinctual passions, depicted as varied names of Demons. </span></p><p> ....</p><p></p><p>A person of normal intelligence would be struck by the internal contradictions of this account. Is Guru Gobind Singh talking about the jyote that infuses creation and that alone? Or are we to take the incarnations and avtars literally? The author does not come down clearly on that question. Nor does he describe the 24 avatars as metaphors or the creation of myth. Instead he talks above about them as incarnations of Vishnu. He does on to describe</p><p></p><p><span style="color: DarkOliveGreen"> goddess Chandi , Bhaviani, Durga, Bhaawati, Kali, etc. are none else but God’s Light (Jot), which created the Universe, the Immanent or the Functional God, as part of the Transcendent God.</span></p><p> ...</p><p></p><p>Problematic is understanding the "indivisible" Akaal as subdivided into functional aspects who are named as Hindu devtas. The author writes in such a way as he seems convinced of his own logic.</p><p></p><p>And now - to recap. We read an argument that sates that Guru Gobind Singh wrote the clarification sections first and a few years later added the peons describing the significance of the 24 avatars. Here are 3 basic problems with that argument, setting aside the logical problems that I tried to point out above.</p><p></p><p>1. Why would anyone write a clarification before writing the texts that need to be clarified?</p><p>2. Is it not possible that the earlier section of Chaubis Avtar was written by Guru Gobind Singh as a complete composition, with no intention of clarifying anything to follow -- because <strong>he did not write what follows</strong> and would have therefore no need to clarify it?</p><p>3. Why would Guru Gobind Singh write something that needed clarification? Or to put it another way, why would he write in contradiction to Gurbani and then some years later <strong>have second thoughts</strong> -- then decide that a clarification was needed? </p><p></p><p>This is the kind of thing that keeps this controversy whirling. And 3 years ago SGPC could have made more than a token effort to "study" the problem. It has the resources to pay for high level analysts to conduct textual, digital and hermeneutic analysis. The US government arrested the Unibomber within a couple of weeks after his brother turned over some letters and the grammar of his Manifesto and the grammar of his letters matched too exactly to be written by two different people. </p><p></p><p>I will not revisit the argument that the poet Shyam claims authorship of the Chaubis Avatar at the beginning of the composition, and that he inserts his name all over the text as <strong>kabi (kavi) shiaam.</strong> That is something to think about. If you want to follow that argument you can visit the blog of The Khalsa Fauj, an SPN forum member. </p><p></p><p>Just my thoughts.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="spnadmin, post: 112556, member: 35"] With your indulgence, I want to give an example of why SGPC should either a) get down to the business of expert textual analysis of disputed portions of Dasam Granth or b) stand back and permit intelligent members of the panth engage in critical debate without the experience of being called slanderers and heretics. On Sikhiwiki there is a puzzling exposition of Chaubis Avtars (24 Avatars). In this article the author presents an argument that Sri Guru Gobind Singh is the author of the entire text. First he states that the Chaubis Avtar was composed over several periods. Then he states that it opens with 38 clarifications -- that are clearly the thinking and writing of Dasam Pita and set the stage for a correct understanding of the remaining portion. The parts that follow the clarification are essentially praises of Vedic deities. He concludes that the last section should be accepted as Bani of Dasam Pita because the earlier section makes it clear that Dasam Pita has given the proper context for understanding references to Puranic tests. I have copied key parts of the article so you can see what I am referring to. [COLOR=Black] [/COLOR] [B] [COLOR=DarkOliveGreen][FONT=Arial][COLOR=Black][SIZE=1]The first part where it is stated that the Chaubis [/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT][SIZE=1][COLOR=Black][FONT=Arial]Avtar[/FONT] was composed over a period of time [/COLOR][/SIZE][/COLOR][/B] [COLOR=DarkOliveGreen]Chaubis Autar does not appear to be the work of one period. It was a long project which was in execution for a decade or more. While Krishnavtar is stated in verse 2, 490-91 to have been composed in Samvat 1745/AD 1688 at Paonta when Guru Gobind Singh was residing there, Ram Avtar, according to verses 860-61 was composed at Anandpur in Samvat 1755/AD 1698 near the temple of Nainadevi, close to the bank of the River Sutlej. [/COLOR] [B]... [/B][B][FONT=Arial][SIZE=1]Here the author is stating that readers should understand that the 24 avatars should not be worshiped; yet he also states that Guru Gobind Singh believed they were historical facts.[/SIZE][/FONT][/B] [COLOR=DarkGreen]The aim behind the bani was to tell the [URL="http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Sikh"]Sikh[/URL] Jagat to know what these 24 avtars were, Guru sahib never worshipped these avtars but he created this historical account of Vishnu, not only vishnu but Shiv and brahma too. [/COLOR] [COLOR=DarkGreen]The description of 24 Avtars given in Sri Dasam Granth are the incarnations of god Vishnu. The most important of all the Avtars are Rama and Krishna; It is mistaken belief of Hindus to call them as the Supreme God. It was to clarify the Mistaken Beliefs of people that the Avtars were God, Sri Guru Gobind Singh Jee took pains to write about these 24 Avtars, giving their limitations and pitfalls. It was never the intention to teach to worship them, but to enlighten people to Worship One Creator God Alone, Who is Infinite and is the Ultimate. [/COLOR] ... So essentially, the author is expecting readers to accept that the avatars are factual and Guru Gobind Singh is instructing his Sikhs to believe that incarnations of Waheguru happened not once but 23 times, with one more to come. This in spite of other bani that instructs Sikhs that the Sat does not incarnate.That Sikhs should not worship the avatars; nonetheless it is acceptable to buy into the idea that avatars are believable. [B]Now the author presents the 38 clarifications and argues that Guru Gobind Singh wrote this first so that Sikhs would not become worshippers of the avatars. These come at the beginning of the Chaubis Avtar.[/B] The passage also states that Sikhs should keep in mind that Guru Gobind Singh kept his compositions separate from Granth Sahib to avoid confusion. But it also implies that Guru Gobind Singh found the Puranic content so persuasive that he needed to integrate it with his own thinking. [COLOR=DarkGreen][COLOR=Sienna][B]Note these are the author's explanations of the early part of Chaubis Avtar[/B][/COLOR] Here under are the 38 Introductory Points of the 24 Avtars, as stated by Sri Guru Gobind Singh Jee, which should ever be kept in Mind while examining the translations of Hindu Sacred Books made by the Guru and included in Sri Dasam Granth. It was due to these translations of Hindu sacred books of Hindus having different approach from the Sikh; the Guru decided that his Compositions to remain separate from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee. These translations make a Sikh to appreciate GURMAT more clearly than otherwise, if any one would read judiciously. [/COLOR] [LIST=1] [*][COLOR=DarkOliveGreen]Chaupai – Now I recite as I have seen the feats of the 24 incarnations.O Saints! Listen to it attentively; Poet Shyam will describe them according to wisdom blessed him by God. [/COLOR] [*][COLOR=DarkOliveGreen]As and when many inimical persons emerge (and the spirit of righteousness decreases), it is supposed that the incarnation of god Vishnu take place. The Time aspect of the Lord God (Kal) beholds the feats of all and ultimately perishes one and all. [/COLOR] [*][COLOR=DarkOliveGreen]Kal is the ultimate Creator of all and ultimately subsumes all in Him. He assumes His many forms and at the end merges all in Him. [/COLOR] [*][COLOR=DarkOliveGreen]KAL created the Ten Incarnations and in all of them pervades Himself (The Transcendent Lord). Beside ten, fourteen other incarnations have also been created and the feats they have performed are delineated here. [/COLOR] [*][COLOR=DarkOliveGreen]Kal (Supreme Lord) keeping His Own Name concealed and not shouldering any blame holds all others responsible for their evils. This fact I know already that He keeps Himself detached from the temporal activities of this world. [/COLOR] [*][COLOR=DarkOliveGreen]Kal Himself creates, Himself destroys but making others the efficient CAUSE FOR THE GOOD AND EVIL HOLDS THEM RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR DEEDS. [/COLOR] [*][COLOR=DarkOliveGreen]The so called 24 incarnations, O Lord, could not maintain even an iota of You. Becoming worldly kings they got deluded in the worldly affairs and are known by many names. [/COLOR] [*][COLOR=DarkOliveGreen]O Lord! You have been deluding one and all but You Yourself were never deceived by anybody. That is why You are called the Deluder (Chaliya) also. Seeing the saints suffering, You become anguished and that is why You are called Friend of the poor (Deen-bandhu). [/COLOR] [*][COLOR=DarkOliveGreen]Time to time You annihilate the whole Universe and that is why this world calls You KAL also. On different occasions and in different Ages You have been helping the saints and accordingly these Avtars have been counted by the saints. [/COLOR] [*][COLOR=DarkOliveGreen]Seeing the helpless, You show Your kindness and realizing this we call You the Friend of the poor ones. Your compassionate sentiments rain upon the saints and that is why the world calls You the Treasure of Compassion. [/COLOR] [*][COLOR=DarkOliveGreen]You always wipe out the troubles of the saints and that is why Your one Name is Trouble Wiper, Sankatharan. You have been destroying the suffering of the saints and that is why You are called Perisher of the Suffering. [/COLOR] [*][COLOR=DarkOliveGreen]You are ever Eternal and none could know Your mystery. That is why Your Name is Infinite, and is also known. In the world You through Your Light assume the forms of all and that is why Your Name is called the Creator also. [/COLOR] [*][COLOR=DarkOliveGreen]None could perceive You so far, so Your Name is Imperceptible, is also known. You never take birth in the world and that is why You are called Unborn by the people. [/COLOR] [*][COLOR=DarkOliveGreen]In the process of knowing Your mystery, the poor fellows, Brahma, Vishnu, Mehesh etc. have got tired. Moon and Sun also ponder upon You, that is why You are known as their Creator. [/COLOR] [*][COLOR=DarkOliveGreen]You also remain without any guise so the world says You are beyond ALL THE GARBS. Your Invisible Form is not known to anybody and that is why You are delineated as Imperceptible. [/COLOR] [*][COLOR=DarkOliveGreen]Your Beauty is Incomparable and Form Infinite, guise or no guise You are different from all. You are the Giver to all and You Yourself beg from nobody. That is why we know you in the form of Creator. [/COLOR] [*][COLOR=DarkOliveGreen]You do not get influenced by the omens and the auspicious time etc., this s known to whole world. No Mantra, Yantra or Tantra can make You happy and even through different garbs none could attain You. [/COLOR] [*][COLOR=DarkOliveGreen]The Creatures of the world are deeply engrossed in their own selfish ends and none has identified the Transcendent Lord. To attain You many go to the cemeteries or the cremation grounds but in both these places no Lord is there. [/COLOR] [*][COLOR=DarkOliveGreen]These both types of persons engrossed in their infatuations and oral debates are waste, but O Lord! You are different from these both. Attaining Whom one clears away the delusions of the heart, before that Lord, no one is Hindu or a Muslim. [/COLOR] [*][COLOR=DarkOliveGreen]One uses beads and the other keeps rosary; one recites the Holy Koran and the other Purans. Persons of both these sects are dying while opposing each other and none of these have got the fast color of the love of the Lord. [/COLOR] [*][COLOR=DarkOliveGreen]Those who have dyed the fast color of the Lord, their repudiating the worldly shame dance in sheer happiness. Those who have identified the one primal Lord from their hearts the sense of duality has perished. [/COLOR] [*][COLOR=DarkOliveGreen]Those who are absorbed in the sense of duality i.e. who consider them separate from the Lord are in fact away from meeting Lord, the Supreme Friend. Who has even a BIT UNDERSTOOD THE Lord in fact has understood Him as the Supreme Reality. [/COLOR] [*][COLOR=DarkOliveGreen]As much as yogis, ascetics, the shaven heads and Muslim Fakirs are there, they assuming their different guises are looting the world. The saints whose total base is the Name of the Lord, never become manifest before the people and keep themselves concealed. [/COLOR] [*][COLOR=DarkOliveGreen]The worldly creatures show their hypocrisies just for the sake of bread and butter because without hypocrisy they do not get any monetary profits. The person who has concentrated upon one supreme reality, has never shown any pretensions to anybody. [/COLOR] [*][COLOR=DarkOliveGreen]Without pretensions the selfish ends are not attained and none bows before anybody. Has this belly not been there attached with the body, no body would have been king or a pauper in this world. [/COLOR] [*][COLOR=DarkOliveGreen]Those who have accepted God as One, have never shown pretensions to anybody. Such person gets his head cut but never repudiates the Truth. And only such person accepts this body as a particle of dust. [/COLOR] [*][COLOR=DarkOliveGreen]Split ear, the individual is known as Yogi, who being variously hypocritical goes to the forest. If he has not realized the essence of the Name of the Lord, he is neither useful in the forest nor he remains of any use for the household. [/COLOR] [*][COLOR=DarkOliveGreen]How long this poet can describe because one tongue cannot know the mystery of the Infinite. May be somebody has crores of tongues, even then the end limit of Your ocean of qualities cannot be known. POINT 29 IS MOST IMPORTANT – PLEASE NOTE. [/COLOR] [*][COLOR=DarkOliveGreen]The Primal Lord, called the KAL is the Father of the whole Creation. It is from Him emerged the tremendous radiance, which is known by the Name of Bhavani. This God’s Light (Jot) is called Bhavani or Durga or Kali, etc., which created this Universe. (In Gurmat God’s Light (Jot) in all is called Guru, Satguru or Satguru Poora, verily God Himself). [/COLOR] [*][COLOR=DarkOliveGreen]First He articulated Oankar and this resonance became diffused in the whole world. From this and the combination of Prakriti and Pursha, the world got expanded. [/COLOR] [*][COLOR=DarkOliveGreen]The creation got created and since then this is known as the world. Grossly the four mines of creation are described (these are, egg, fetus, sweat and vegetation). I have not that much of power that could describe their various names. [/COLOR] [*][COLOR=DarkOliveGreen]The Lord created both powerful and the weak and cleared the distinction of the high and low. The Mighty Kal (Lord) assuming bodies through His Light (Jot), manifested Himself in different forms. [/COLOR] [*][COLOR=DarkOliveGreen]As and when He assumes the body by putting His Light, He becomes popular in the forms of different incarnations. But ultimately all merged in the Supreme Form of the Lord. [/COLOR] [*][COLOR=DarkOliveGreen]As much as the number of the Jivas are there in the world, consider them all enlightened by the One Flame of the Lord. Whole of world subsumes in the Lord God, Who is known in the form of KAL [/COLOR] [*][COLOR=DarkOliveGreen]Whatever is perceptible is given the name of Maya by our mind. He, the One pervades through all and people have established Him according to their own understandings. [/COLOR] [*][COLOR=DarkOliveGreen]The Invisible Lord permeates all, and all the creatures according to their station in life due to their karmas beg of Him. Whosoever has known that Lord as One, only he has attained the Supreme Reality. [/COLOR] [*][COLOR=DarkOliveGreen]His One Formless Form is superb and He only is at one place, a King and at other a pauper. He has entrapped all variously but Himself is detached from all, and none could know His mystery. [/COLOR] [*][COLOR=DarkOliveGreen]In different forms He has created all and He only annihilates them differently. He never takes any responsibility of any wrong done; jivas are rather held responsible for their evils.” [/COLOR] [/LIST] ... In other words, the clarifications by Guru Gobind Singh give the green light, all systems GO, legitimacy to what follows. Go back and read Point 33 dear forum members. [COLOR=DarkOliveGreen]As and when He assumes the body by putting His Light, He becomes popular in the forms of different incarnations. But ultimately all merged in the Supreme Form of the Lord. [/COLOR] [COLOR=DarkOliveGreen] [COLOR=Black] This is not a clarification but a contradiction of the Mool Mantar, depending on how it is interpreted.[/COLOR][/COLOR] The author interprets it this way. And, this is on the Internet in a very popular Sikh web site, considered authoritative by many. [COLOR=DarkGreen]The 24 Avtars are the incarnations of god Vishnu, who himself was full of limitations. These three Trinity gods, Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva had their weaknesses; they even committed crimes, told lies and indulged in adulterous affairs. Points 1 –6, 32 and 29 given above are Most Important. KAL is GOD, Who subsumes all the Creation. In Sri Guru Granth Sahib it is repeatedly stated that there is NO OTHER DESTROYER EXCEPT GOD. God’s Light (Jot) in all creatures, we call it Guru, Satguru and Satguru Poora; verily God Himself. Here the Guru states goddess Chandi , Bhaviani, Durga, Bhaawati, Kali, etc. are none else but God’s Light (Jot), which created the Universe, the Immanent or the Functional God, as part of the Transcendent God. This will explain the Guru’s version of Chandi Chritrars. Chandi or God’s Light or God in Man fights with the temptations of the instinctual passions, depicted as varied names of Demons. [/COLOR] .... A person of normal intelligence would be struck by the internal contradictions of this account. Is Guru Gobind Singh talking about the jyote that infuses creation and that alone? Or are we to take the incarnations and avtars literally? The author does not come down clearly on that question. Nor does he describe the 24 avatars as metaphors or the creation of myth. Instead he talks above about them as incarnations of Vishnu. He does on to describe [COLOR=DarkOliveGreen] goddess Chandi , Bhaviani, Durga, Bhaawati, Kali, etc. are none else but God’s Light (Jot), which created the Universe, the Immanent or the Functional God, as part of the Transcendent God.[/COLOR] ... Problematic is understanding the "indivisible" Akaal as subdivided into functional aspects who are named as Hindu devtas. The author writes in such a way as he seems convinced of his own logic. And now - to recap. We read an argument that sates that Guru Gobind Singh wrote the clarification sections first and a few years later added the peons describing the significance of the 24 avatars. Here are 3 basic problems with that argument, setting aside the logical problems that I tried to point out above. 1. Why would anyone write a clarification before writing the texts that need to be clarified? 2. Is it not possible that the earlier section of Chaubis Avtar was written by Guru Gobind Singh as a complete composition, with no intention of clarifying anything to follow -- because [B]he did not write what follows[/B] and would have therefore no need to clarify it? 3. Why would Guru Gobind Singh write something that needed clarification? Or to put it another way, why would he write in contradiction to Gurbani and then some years later [B]have second thoughts[/B] -- then decide that a clarification was needed? This is the kind of thing that keeps this controversy whirling. And 3 years ago SGPC could have made more than a token effort to "study" the problem. It has the resources to pay for high level analysts to conduct textual, digital and hermeneutic analysis. The US government arrested the Unibomber within a couple of weeks after his brother turned over some letters and the grammar of his Manifesto and the grammar of his letters matched too exactly to be written by two different people. I will not revisit the argument that the poet Shyam claims authorship of the Chaubis Avatar at the beginning of the composition, and that he inserts his name all over the text as [B]kabi (kavi) shiaam.[/B] That is something to think about. If you want to follow that argument you can visit the blog of The Khalsa Fauj, an SPN forum member. Just my thoughts. [/QUOTE]
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